skyeagle409 Posted May 25, 2016 #76 Share Posted May 25, 2016 (edited) 11 hours ago, Yamato said: Even if a few aircraft carriers were at Pearl on Dec 7th, which would have been completely destroyed if they were present, it wouldn't have changed the ultimate outcome of the war with the resources, manpower and industry of the US. Some people understood that, like Admiral Yamamoto. Next to nobody else in Japan did. What Yamamoto knew that next to no Americans knew was the true potential of the aircraft carrier. This semi-sneak attack would predictably pay dividends in the earliest days of the war. The law of diminishing returns caught up quickly though, exactly as Yamamoto prophesied. I've heard Conspiracy Theorists floating the argument that "The US deliberately put all its old crappy ships at Pearl Harbor on Dec 7th" which simply isn't true. We had the heavy heart of our Pacific fleet there representing the most heavily defensible weapons US industry had ever built. Could the fleet have been protected better? Sure, but I can understand how it's not a conspiracy to have no carriers near the base at all times, for the express purpose of outnumberedly-pushing Japanese carriers out of striking distance. I can see how believing 9/11 CT would lend itself to believing in WW2 CT though. Hey Let's just attack ourselves! Seriously? It starts to make imperial Japan and modern day Saudi Arabia look like the good guys in the world. Japan started WW2 after it deemed the Hull Notes to be a declaration of war by the United States. They attacked us with their ultimate ambition to force the US to the table to make more favorable terms of peace. They miscalculated severely, and for dive bombing and torpedoing our battleships we nuked their women and children. The bombing raid by Jimmy Doolittle and his raiders in 1942 got the Japanese thinking. American carriers took out their revenge on four Japanese carriers during the Battle of Midway. Four of the six Japanese carriers that were involved in the attack on Pearl Harbor--the Akagi, Kaga, Soryu and Hiryu-- were sunk. http://www.pacificaviationmuseum.org/pearl-harbor-blog/revenge-of-the-pearl-harbor-battleships In regards to the damage at Pearl Harbor, some of those ships were raised and repaired and eventually took out their vengeance on the Japanese navy especially during the Battle of Leyte Gulf. The Pearl Harbor battleships involved in that battle were the West Virginia, Pennsylvania, California, Tennessee, and Maryland. It was unfortunate that the two atomic bombs were used on Japan, but after the kamikaze attacks on naval vessels and the tenacity and determination of Japanese soldiers to fight to the death, the decision was made to use the atomic bomb rather than invade Japan. However, the atomic bomb raids were not the most destructive air raids on Japan because the firebombings of Japan caused much more destruction in Japan and the most destructive air raid in history occurred during 'Operation Meetinghouse.' Paul Tibbets was the commanding pilot of the Enola Gay, the aircraft that dropped the first atomic bomb and I might add that his grandson has been flying the B-2 stealth bomber at Whiteman AFB, MO. I never believed in a false flag regarding Pearl Harbor despite the fact that Dusko Popov's Pearl Harbor warnings were ignored. Among those who were elated at the news of the Pearl Harbor attack were Winston Churchill of Britain and Chiang Kai-shek of China. Edited May 25, 2016 by skyeagle409 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yamato Posted May 25, 2016 #77 Share Posted May 25, 2016 9 hours ago, Noteverythingisaconspiracy said: So is it really that strange that Japan managed to pull off an attack like that against a country that wasn't expecting an attack ? Not at all. "Bush Knew." ? Bush didn't know jack on a stick. His family was in the middle of the bed with Saudi Arabia and he had more secret handshakes and lip schmoozing with those butchers than anyone else alive except Daddy. He was even more ignorant 12 months after 9/11 than he was six months before. I do remember eight straight years of thinking "Man this guy is so effing ignorant." George W. Bush was like going through 10 rounds of chemotherapy at the doctor's and failing to stop the tumor growth, then deciding clearly that the solution is another 100 rounds of chemo. Strong, bold, clear, leadership! We lack wisdom and knowledge. The missing explanation for the crap we do in the world, both then and now. Of course, our Honors and Madames and Lords are conspiring together behind closed doors all over the place! It happens every day in closed meetings in every office building. That's my one and only "conspiracy theory." Yes of course people are conspiring. When it's a public official like a government bureaucrat or politician, people have a right to know what the hell they're doing. Let's not run down Bilderberg to the exclusion of the government like Alex Jones does. Pearl could have built multiple airbases and spread a much larger land-based air power on the island. They could have had multiple recon aircraft in the air at all times. They could have built a powerful radar array akin to Britain's. They could have kept their unrefit carriers a few hundred miles from the island. They could have done all that if they knew the attack was coming. Even if the CT was true. And so...What are conspiracy theorists afraid of? That if we counterattacked the Japanese fleet strongly enough during the attacks on Pearl, the peoples' dander wouldn't be up enough for FDR to get the big show on? They gotta be kidding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thanato Posted June 7, 2016 #78 Share Posted June 7, 2016 Wrt the OP I assume that the WW1 reference was about the Licitania? The facts there are wrong. The Lucitania was a passenger ship that also was shipping arms, against the law. Also the Zimmerman Telegram had more to do with the US declaration of war. Well that and unrestricted submarine warefare by Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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