questionmark Posted May 27, 2016 #1 Share Posted May 27, 2016 Quote Chinese Apple, Samsung contractor buys robots, eliminates 60K employees KUNSHAN , China, May 27 (UPI) -- A massive Chinese electronics factory, the clients of which include Apple and Samsung, says it slashed 60,000 jobs by bringing in robots. The Foxconn plant in Jiangsu province is one of many manufacturing facilities, many Taiwanese-owned, in the county of Kunshan, an electronics hub. After a 2014 explosion and fire -- blamed on inadequate safety standards and hit-or-miss industrialization -- killed 146 workers and injured the city's reputation, automation has been the byword. So has the reduction of labor costs. Foxconn and 34 other Taiwanese companies spent $610 million in 2014 on artificial intelligence, including manufacturing robots, the company said. The result is a quick and staggering reduction in employees, and about 600 other companies in Kunshan are ready to duplicate the effort. Read more on UPI And here a fine example of how it has nothing to do with minimum wages, as discussed in now defunct threads, because you can't get any more minimum than the Chinese sack of Rice a month wages: no matter what a worker gets, a robot can make it cheaper. And if as worker or employee you keep on buying their stuff it will be your own fault if tomorrow you are substituted by a robot. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted May 27, 2016 #2 Share Posted May 27, 2016 you live in the past, days of a bowl of rice a day long gone, even Chinese no longer want to work for pennies, and want more. so yea it does have something to do with wages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted May 27, 2016 Author #3 Share Posted May 27, 2016 Just wait, in a not so distant future your boss is going to show you ACME Mk IV and tell you that if you want to keep your job you'll have to pay him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted May 27, 2016 #4 Share Posted May 27, 2016 I can see a future where employees will have to take pay cuts to try and compete with robots. I also can see a future where employees lose that battle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Grey Posted May 27, 2016 #5 Share Posted May 27, 2016 Quality control goes up, the phones are now ethically made, I see no problem with this (because I don't work for Foxconn). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted May 27, 2016 #6 Share Posted May 27, 2016 15 minutes ago, questionmark said: Just wait, in a not so distant future your boss is going to show you ACME Mk IV and tell you that if you want to keep your job you'll have to pay him. lol, you are an angry old man, it is not the first time you wish misfortune on me. Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted May 27, 2016 #7 Share Posted May 27, 2016 Yeah, who are we kidding. It's just better all around to use robots over humans. The robots can work 24 hours a day, seven days a week. No need for retirement, health insurance, social security taxes, etc. Quality is at a set standard. No sexual harassment, disability, or work comp suits. Never late, hung over, stoned, tired, or otherwise impaired. They never steal or vandalize company property. People as a resource, business-wise are increasingly being phased out. The only real need for them is as a consumer in our current capitalist-based system. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted May 27, 2016 #8 Share Posted May 27, 2016 1 minute ago, Gromdor said: Yeah, who are we kidding. It's just better all around to use robots over humans. The robots can work 24 hours a day, seven days a week. No need for retirement, health insurance, social security taxes, etc. Quality is at a set standard. No sexual harassment, disability, or work comp suits. Never late, hung over, stoned, tired, or otherwise impaired. They never steal or vandalize company property. People as a resource, business-wise are increasingly being phased out. The only real need for them is as a consumer in our current capitalist-based system. pretty much, but consumers that have no buying power (no job, no paycheck), are worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted May 27, 2016 Author #9 Share Posted May 27, 2016 9 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said: Quality control goes up, the phones are now ethically made, I see no problem with this (because I don't work for Foxconn). Precisely and that reminds me of a certain Martin Niemoeller, who when asked how he ended in a concentration camp said: First they came to get the Communists, and I did not protest because I was no communist. Then they came to get the Union members, and I did not protest because I was no union member. After that they came to get the Jews, and because I was no Jew I did not protest. And when they came for me there was nobody left to protest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromdor Posted May 27, 2016 #10 Share Posted May 27, 2016 1 minute ago, aztek said: pretty much, but consumers that have no buying power (no job, no paycheck), are worthless. Hate to say it, but you are right. It's actually the main reason I've been eyeing the Trans-humanist party for discussion and solutions rather than the D's and R's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Grey Posted May 27, 2016 #11 Share Posted May 27, 2016 3 minutes ago, questionmark said: Precisely and that reminds me of a certain Martin Niemoeller, who when asked how he ended in a concentration camp said: First they came to get the Communists, and I did not protest because I was no communist. Then they came to get the Union members, and I did not protest because I was no union member. After that they came to get the Jews, and because I was no Jew I did not protest. And when they came for me there was nobody left to protest. When they come for IT, I'll have to assume every other industry has been assimilated in to the borg collective. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted May 27, 2016 Author #12 Share Posted May 27, 2016 3 minutes ago, Gromdor said: Hate to say it, but you are right. It's actually the main reason I've been eyeing the Trans-humanist party for discussion and solutions rather than the D's and R's. If the mass automation ever happens thanks to the industrials we will have achieved an old utopia: communism... until the robots break down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted May 27, 2016 #13 Share Posted May 27, 2016 33 minutes ago, Gromdor said: Yeah, who are we kidding. It's just better all around to use robots over humans. The robots can work 24 hours a day, seven days a week. No need for retirement, health insurance, social security taxes, etc. Quality is at a set standard. No sexual harassment, disability, or work comp suits. Never late, hung over, stoned, tired, or otherwise impaired. They never steal or vandalize company property. People as a resource, business-wise are increasingly being phased out. The only real need for them is as a consumer in our current capitalist-based system. Don't forget that their safety numbers will be much, much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted May 27, 2016 #14 Share Posted May 27, 2016 (edited) 38 minutes ago, Gromdor said: Yeah, who are we kidding. It's just better all around to use robots over humans. The robots can work 24 hours a day, seven days a week. No need for retirement, health insurance, social security taxes, etc. Quality is at a set standard. No sexual harassment, disability, or work comp suits. Never late, hung over, stoned, tired, or otherwise impaired. They never steal or vandalize company property. People as a resource, business-wise are increasingly being phased out. The only real need for them is as a consumer in our current capitalist-based system. Double post. Edited May 27, 2016 by Myles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Grey Posted May 27, 2016 #15 Share Posted May 27, 2016 We'll get a small glimpse of what's to come when driver-less long-haul trucks hit the roads. Eventually taxis, limousines, etc. Driving for a living will soon be a thing of the past. If you're lucky, they may keep you on payroll to absorb insurance blame in the event of an accident. That's a lot of job loss just around the corner... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aztek Posted May 27, 2016 #16 Share Posted May 27, 2016 6 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said: We'll get a small glimpse of what's to come when driver-less long-haul trucks hit the roads. Eventually taxis, limousines, etc. Driving for a living will soon be a thing of the past. If you're lucky, they may keep you on payroll to absorb insurance blame in the event of an accident. That's a lot of job loss just around the corner... from chaos comes order. maybe NWO would not sound so bad once SHTF, and wars really do wonders to population control, not to mention jobs rebuilding it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted May 27, 2016 #17 Share Posted May 27, 2016 2 hours ago, Dark_Grey said: We'll get a small glimpse of what's to come when driver-less long-haul trucks hit the roads. Eventually taxis, limousines, etc. Driving for a living will soon be a thing of the past. If you're lucky, they may keep you on payroll to absorb insurance blame in the event of an accident. That's a lot of job loss just around the corner... And the same was said during the first Industrial Revolution, and when old jobs went new jobs were created. 70% of children will be in jobs we adults can't even imagine by the time we retire. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Grey Posted May 27, 2016 #18 Share Posted May 27, 2016 10 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said: And the same was said during the first Industrial Revolution, and when old jobs went new jobs were created. 70% of children will be in jobs we adults can't even imagine by the time we retire. To an extent I think you are right, but this differs from the IR quite a lot when you account for fully autonomous machines. All of the emerging tech in the IR required a human operator, all the emerging robotics will not.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted May 28, 2016 Author #19 Share Posted May 28, 2016 12 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said: And the same was said during the first Industrial Revolution, and when old jobs went new jobs were created. 70% of children will be in jobs we adults can't even imagine by the time we retire. There is just one small difference there: during the industrial revolution, due to a dramatic increase in served population, an increase of production was needed that could not have been mastered without machines doing the bulk of the work. This time, while we still have an increase in population the needs of that population can still be met with traditional means, and that means that there is no substitute work for those idled by the machines. Besides that, since the beginning of the 20th century the economic paradigm has changed from worker producing something that is in demand to workers are creating and producing their own demands, which in turn means that every idled worker will not be an optimal consumer and therefore cause an overproduction. The most likely outcome will be that the old anarchist's dream of remunerated leisure will become reality. Expect the Dutch model of "everybody getting a base salary for existing" to come somewhere near you. But certainly not until after a huge fight. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
questionmark Posted May 28, 2016 Author #20 Share Posted May 28, 2016 12 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said: And the same was said during the first Industrial Revolution, and when old jobs went new jobs were created. 70% of children will be in jobs we adults can't even imagine by the time we retire. There is just one small difference there: during the industrial revolution, due to a dramatic increase in served population, an increase of production was needed that could not have been mastered without machines doing the bulk of the work. This time, while we still have an increase in population the needs of that population can still be met with traditional means, and that means that there is no substitute work for those idled by the machines. Besides that, since the beginning of the 20th century the economic paradigm has changed from worker producing something that is in demand to workers are creating and producing their own demands, which in turn means that every idled worker will not be an optimal consumer and therefore cause an overproduction. The most likely outcome will be that the old anarchist's dream of remunerated leisure will become reality. Expect the Dutch model of "everybody getting a base salary for existing" to come somewhere near you. But certainly not until after a huge fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Br Cornelius Posted May 28, 2016 #21 Share Posted May 28, 2016 There is a parallel thing going on here, all of the new jobs which are been created are dealing in the commodity of information. The problem with that is that information can be duplicated infinitely which breaks the model of scarcity inherent in capitalist theory. You cannot price a resource which can be copied and distributed for free, so the mirage of a "knowledge economy" is fading into fantasy land as we speak. Basically the economy and the economic model is fundamentally broken, but that is not necessarily any bad thing. As QM said the probable outcome will be a basic minimal wage and those who are ambitious enough to want more can find the margin in the gaps between the free or virtually free stuff that is all around us. Br Cornelius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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