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A Philosophical Question


StarMountainKid

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I think this is a sort of philosophical question I have.

 

I live in a small enclave where all the neighbors know each other, have known each other for years, and we often gather in someone’s back yard, talk and have a nice time together. A person who drinks a bit and sometimes stays with neighbors, as he has no home of his own (Runt), who is also a member of our little community, came by yesterday and offered to sell me a long extension cord for $5. Most likely he needed the money for another beer.

 

I figured he had taken it from someone he had just been visiting in the neighborhood (Bobby). I bought it, thinking I’d return it to its rightful owner. My philosophical question is: should I return the cord to Bobby, not telling him who took it, telling him who took it, or should I just keep it and say nothing?

 

The thing is, if I just return it, Bobby will correctly guess who stole it anyway, and that will cause trouble between Bobby and Runt. It will also cause trouble between all the other neighbors who know Runt and are friends with him. Runt will be ostracized by his friends, which is not good because he sometimes stays with them, having no home of his own. It will also cause animosity between Runt and me. Runt and I are friends, as well. I don't want to be cruel to Runt because he's basically a good person, though he occasionally has his failures because of his alcohol problem. He does work every day for a lawn-care company in the summer and does odd jobs, so he's not a bum.

 

If I keep quiet, Bobby is without his extension cord, Runt got away with theft, and I will feel odd talking to Bobby knowing I have his property and not telling him.

 

What’s the right thing to do?

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Keep the cord, Runt gets his $5, and contrive some occasion to buy Bobby a new one some time, as a present. Yes, you'll be the cost of a new one + $5 out of pocket, but it'll be worth it to see the happy looks on Bobby's and Runt's shiny little faces. :) 

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You, Bobby and Runt should be having this conversation...  not you and us.

 

If y'all truly care for Runt, y'all need to discuss his problem, help him, and openly work this out in a non-confrontational way (loving way).

At least that's what I'd do.

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Just now, Aftermath said:

You, Bobby and Runt should be having this conversation...  not you and us.

 

If y'all truly care for Runt, y'all need to discuss his problem, help him, and openly work this out in a non-confrontational way (loving way).

At least that's what I'd do.

Well, for one thing, Bobby would not be a non-confrontational loving person in this situation, and I think the other neighbors would have a negative reaction as well. Runt would be the one who would suffer, and I'm not convinced his suffering would be equal to his crime. Runt was drunk when he came to my doorstep with the cord. I don't think he would have taken it had he been sober. I haven't known him to be a thief in the past, though I don't know his life story. 

Is it my place to cause trouble for Runt? If I leave it alone, Bobby may discover his loss and figure things out for himself. That way I wouldn't feel bad causing Runt trouble and maybe depriving him a place to stay ( he's been staying with Ted, a neighbor).

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25 minutes ago, StarMountainKid said:

I think this is a sort of philosophical question I have.

 

 

I live in a small enclave where all the neighbors know each other, have known each other for years, and we often gather in someone’s back yard, talk and have a nice time together. A person who drinks a bit and sometimes stays with neighbors, as he has no home of his own (Runt), who is also a member of our little community, came by yesterday and offered to sell me a long extension cord for $5. Most likely he needed the money for another beer.

 

 

I figured he had taken it from someone he had just been visiting in the neighborhood (Bobby). I bought it, thinking I’d return it to its rightful owner. My philosophical question is: should I return the cord to Bobby, not telling him who took it, telling him who took it, or should I just keep it and say nothing?

 

 

The thing is, if I just return it, Bobby will correctly guess who stole it anyway, and that will cause trouble between Bobby and Runt. It will also cause trouble between all the other neighbors who know Runt and are friends with him. Runt will be ostracized by his friends, which is not good because he sometimes stays with them, having no home of his own. It will also cause animosity between Runt and me. Runt and I are friends, as well. I don't want to be cruel to Runt because he's basically a good person, though he occasionally has his failures because of his alcohol problem. He does work every day for a lawn-care company in the summer and does odd jobs, so he's not a bum.

 

 

If I keep quiet, Bobby is without his extension cord, Runt got away with theft, and I will feel odd talking to Bobby knowing I have his property and not telling him.

 

 

What’s the right thing to do?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just put it back without saying anything.

And net time runt is around go visit your friend. When he sees the cord it will make him feel awkward and get the message across.

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Just now, RabidMongoose said:

Just put it back without saying anything.

And net time runt is around go visit your friend. When he sees the cord it will make him feel awkward and get the message across.

Good idea, but I can't sneak it back, I don't know where Bobby kept it in his house. If I just knock on the door and walk in carrying his extension cord... lol  But you have a valid suggestion, thanks. 

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1 minute ago, StarMountainKid said:

Well, for one thing, Bobby would not be a non-confrontational loving person in this situation, and I think the other neighbors would have a negative reaction as well. Runt would be the one who would suffer, and I'm not convinced his suffering would be equal to his crime. Runt was drunk when he came to my doorstep with the cord. I don't think he would have taken it had he been sober. I haven't known him to be a thief in the past, though I don't know his life story. 

Is it my place to cause trouble for Runt? If I leave it alone, Bobby may discover his loss and figure things out for himself. That way I wouldn't feel bad causing Runt trouble and maybe depriving him a place to stay ( he's been staying with Ted, a neighbor).

Really?  Oh I see you made Runt steal the cord...  um, hum.

Look, the man caused his own problem and you are trying to help, right?  It's messy at first, but in the end, it'll be better is you take the cord back to Bobby and tell him the story; then mediate the conversation between Bobby and Runt.  If trouble ensues, Runt actually caused it.

Do you really want to cover for this guy?

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33 minutes ago, Otto von Pickelhaube said:

Keep the cord, Runt gets his $5, and contrive some occasion to buy Bobby a new one some time, as a present. Yes, you'll be the cost of a new one + $5 out of pocket, but it'll be worth it to see the happy looks on Bobby's and Runt's shiny little faces. :) 

This ^^^^^^^^^ is the solution. 

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I would give it back and tell Bobby. 

 

I changed my mind just go leave it in Bobby's yard or something. 

Edited by OverSword
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10 minutes ago, Aftermath said:

Really?  Oh I see you made Runt steal the cord...  um, hum

I bought it because if I didn't Runt would have sold it to someone else, probably not someone who would worry about as I have. Maybe I should have told him to take it back and given him the $5 anyway, but I didn't think he would have taken the chance of taking it back without Bobby noticing.

Plus, Runt was drunk at the time, and I didn't think a rational suggestion would have gotten into his brain anyway.

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48 minutes ago, Otto von Pickelhaube said:

Keep the cord, Runt gets his $5, and contrive some occasion to buy Bobby a new one some time, as a present. Yes, you'll be the cost of a new one + $5 out of pocket, but it'll be worth it to see the happy looks on Bobby's and Runt's shiny little faces. :) 

Nice idea, but just buying Bobby a cord out of the blue would not make any sense to Bobby. He would be suspicious and wondering what's going on. I know Bobby, he'd look for his original cord, not find it , and suspect me of stealing it, feeling guilty and returning it. That wouldn't solve the moral dilemma, anyway. 

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So Bobby doesn't yet know that his cord is missing. Well, buy it off Runt, so he gets his $5, and slip it back into Bobby's garage when he's not looking. Bobby will be none the wiser, and Runt still gets his $5! Everyone's a winner! 

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Just now, Otto von Pickelhaube said:

So Bobby doesn't yet know that his cord is missing. Well, buy it off Runt, so he gets his $5, and slip it back into Bobby's garage when he's not looking. Bobby will be none the wiser, and Runt still gets his $5! Everyone's a winner! 

Yes, but I don't know where Bobby keeps the cord, he doesn't have a garage, I suppose he keeps it in the house somewhere. The other thing is, Bobby is ill and probably will never use the cord, anyway, and may never know it's missing.

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1 hour ago, StarMountainKid said:

I think this is a sort of philosophical question I have.

I live in a small enclave where all the neighbors know each other, have known each other for years, and we often gather in someone’s back yard, talk and have a nice time together. A person who drinks a bit and sometimes stays with neighbors, as he has no home of his own (Runt), who is also a member of our little community, came by yesterday and offered to sell me a long extension cord for $5. Most likely he needed the money for another beer.

I figured he had taken it from someone he had just been visiting in the neighborhood (Bobby). I bought it, thinking I’d return it to its rightful owner. My philosophical question is: should I return the cord to Bobby, not telling him who took it, telling him who took it, or should I just keep it and say nothing?

The thing is, if I just return it, Bobby will correctly guess who stole it anyway, and that will cause trouble between Bobby and Runt. It will also cause trouble between all the other neighbors who know Runt and are friends with him. Runt will be ostracized by his friends, which is not good because he sometimes stays with them, having no home of his own. It will also cause animosity between Runt and me. Runt and I are friends, as well. I don't want to be cruel to Runt because he's basically a good person, though he occasionally has his failures because of his alcohol problem. He does work every day for a lawn-care company in the summer and does odd jobs, so he's not a bum.

If I keep quiet, Bobby is without his extension cord, Runt got away with theft, and I will feel odd talking to Bobby knowing I have his property and not telling him.

What’s the right thing to do?

 

Very interesting existential problem.  Who need a living lesson, Runt I would think. 

But how to go about it?  Since you are in a closed knit neighbourhood, it very very difficult. First, you would need to be sure that the cord owner is Bobby, otherwise, more problems along the way.  Then, I would suggest you convinced Runt to reimburse you when things get better, and you invite him to bring the cord (for communitee well-being purposes, you need to develop this scenario) to Bobby, that look like a childhood correction, but how else!  Is this a plausible thing to do in your neighbourhood ?

If he took the cord from somebody else that isn't in the neighbourhood, then, no need in correcting, he's an adult, from what you wrote.

Edited by Hyades
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1 minute ago, Hyades said:

Very interesting existential problem.  Who need a living lesson, Runt I would think. 

But how to go about it?  Since you are in a closed knit neighbourhood, it very very difficult. First, you would need to be sure that the cord owner is Bobby, otherwise, more problems along the way.  Then, I would suggest you convinced Runt to reimburse you went things get better, and you invite him to bring the cord (for communitee well-being) to Bobby, that look like a childhood correction, but how else!  Is this a plausible thing to do in your neighbourhood ?

If he took the cord from somebody else that isn't in the neighbourhood, then, no need in correcting, he's an adult, from what you wrote.

It is interesting. Yes, I'm not 100% sure it's Bobby's cord, but circumstances lean toward it, as he was visiting Bobby before he came to me. Maybe I'm assuming too much. I don't think I could convince Runt to return the cord.  I got myself into this situation by buying the cord in the first place, but at the time I thought it was the best thing to do, keep the cord until I discover who's it is, then return it. Now I think it's not that simple.

I'm thinking the best thing to do is to forget about it. If someone complains about a missing cord and I give it to that person, I'm complicit if I won't tell who took it. If I do tell, there's trouble brewing that I will cause by buying the thing in the first place. :wub:

I think I'll let things ride as they are for a while.

 

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I would never have bought the extension cord to begin with, but mostly because I would hate to see a friend have sell me something because they needed five bucks for whatever. i would have said thanks, but no thanks, and found a way to give them the five bucks anyway. If I was suspicious of where he got the extension cord, I wouldn't have said anything. Maybe he  stole it, maybe he found it, maybe it was given to him.

So yeah, that's what I would do. I would be out  five bucks I wouldn't miss plus I wouldn't be angsting about what to do next. :)

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51 minutes ago, Otto von Pickelhaube said:

So Bobby doesn't yet know that his cord is missing. Well, buy it off Runt, so he gets his $5, and slip it back into Bobby's garage when he's not looking. Bobby will be none the wiser, and Runt still gets his $5! Everyone's a winner! 

Including Runt, who will now probably steal more stuff. 

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7 minutes ago, Clair said:

I would never have bought the extension cord to begin with, but mostly because I would hate to see a friend have sell me something because they needed five bucks for whatever. i would have said thanks, but no thanks, and found a way to give them the five bucks anyway. If I was suspicious of where he got the extension cord, I wouldn't have said anything. Maybe he  stole it, maybe he found it, maybe it was given to him.

So yeah, that's what I would do. I would be out  five bucks I wouldn't miss plus I wouldn't be angsting about what to do next. :)

I agree. If Runt wants a beer, then he should learn to just be honest about it. 

Next time, tell him to put back whatever it is he's trying to hock, and just give him a beer. 

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Runt needs to be reported to the authorities for theft.

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18 minutes ago, Podo said:

Runt needs to be reported to the authorities for theft.

If he had taken something of real value I wouldn't have bought it, of course. I would have found out who the merchandise belonged to and told them, and let them deal with it. If I'd called the police and told them Runt had tried to sell me an extension cord, I don't think the police would have done anything about it. Runt would have told them it was his cord, anyway. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, StarMountainKid said:

If he had taken something of real value I wouldn't have bought it, of course. I would have found out who the merchandise belonged to and told them, and let them deal with it. If I'd called the police and told them Runt had tried to sell me an extension cord, I don't think the police would have done anything about it. Runt would have told them it was his cord, anyway. 

 

 

Yeah we aint living in Mayberry anymore. Never call the cops unless you're OK with the subject you are calling about dying. 

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I would say forget the whole thing and have a cold beer with Runt!

I like runt he reminds me of me, when I was younger.

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Why jump to an assumption that he stole it from a neighbor?

Could have found it in a discard box on the street and figured to make some cash on what is the all too common practice of tossing stuff that's just in our way.

Could just ask Runt and gauge his response. 

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28 minutes ago, quiXilver said:

Why jump to an assumption that he stole it from a neighbor?

Could have found it in a discard box on the street and figured to make some cash on what is the all too common practice of tossing stuff that's just in our way.

Could just ask Runt and gauge his response. 

Yes, but the extension cord looked new. It's an orange one, and it is clean as if new or it had not been used outdoors. Outside is where they're mostly used I think. I could ask Runt, but he'd just say something. 

See, I was mowing Bobby's lawn when Runt first showed up, not carrying the cord. He then went into Bobby's house. After I went home is when Runt came to my doorstep with the cord. This is why I presume the cord is Bobby's, though Runt could have gotten it from someone eases yard, I suppose. People around here don't usually leave stuff laying around in their yards.

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