Farmer77 Posted June 27, 2016 #176 Share Posted June 27, 2016 7 minutes ago, pallidin said: And 99.9999% of "closed criminal cases" is due to law enforcement and citizen interaction with LEO's. Ummmm can you point out the relevance of your statement? Im kinda missing it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted June 27, 2016 #177 Share Posted June 27, 2016 My personal opinion as to the NRA is this: - I agree wholeheartedly with the right for citizens to have guns. - I do not agree that "everyone" should be able to own guns. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pallidin Posted June 27, 2016 #178 Share Posted June 27, 2016 1 minute ago, Farmer77 said: Ummmm can you point out the relevance of your statement? Im kinda missing it Criminal activity discovery and prosecution is often "after-the-event" Not always, but often enough. Citizen involvement is important for "fact-chasing" and "prosecution" in some cases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+OverSword Posted June 27, 2016 #179 Share Posted June 27, 2016 1 hour ago, aztek said: so? how doe sit change the fact that crime is already committed? actually in 90% + of cases convictions come from people saying what they should not have, not due to great police work. so in a way you are right interaction with police got them convicted. there is a good reason why every lawyer tells his clients, do not talk to police, I'm saying this database of law abiding citizens isn't going to stop any crime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Duck Posted June 28, 2016 #180 Share Posted June 28, 2016 (edited) 11 hours ago, Farmer77 said: Voting doesnt work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tu32CCA_Ig Voting works better than not voting. Quote The numbers: While 52% of those earning above $150,000 a year voted in 2014, only 1 in 4 of those earning less than $10,000 did. Not only that, but these class gaps are magnified by age. Turnout among 18- to 24-year-old voters who earn less than $30,000 was 12% in 2014. Turnout among voters over 65 who earn more than $150,000 was nearly four times higher, at 65%. source Your YouTube video talks about representing people. The "Rich Line" has about half the gradient of the "expected line"; coincidentally about half high-income earners vote. Elected representatives will do what then can to keep votes. If you don't represent a risk to an elected official losing votes to an opponent, you're opinion will never have an effect. Non voting is accepting someone else speaking on your behalf. It's surrendering to someone else's voice. Edited June 28, 2016 by Mangoze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted June 28, 2016 #181 Share Posted June 28, 2016 14 hours ago, OverSword said: Because they're tracking people who are not criminals. This is not a database of criminals who own guns it's a database of everyone who owns guns. The simple workaround is don't register your weapon. I wouldn't. The irony is that if you balk at that rule you become a criminal. Currently I own a few weapons, long guns and pistols. About half were purchased at gun shows with full background check. Some of the others were private purchase where I gave the seller my driver license to copy for his records. I never keep a record of who I buy from because the purchases are considered "as is". If I sell a weapon I don't record names, addresses or other info because I am not required by law to do so. My moral obligation is to assess as best I can the individual who is buying and if he seems sketchy at all to refuse to sell. I have never sold a gun to anyone who didn't seem like a reasonable person and good citizen. Could I have been wrong? Sure. No one is perfect. But I wasn't wrong because I've never had a single instance where law enforcement came calling about a weapon I purchased new that later was involved in a crime scene. The truth is that if such a call did come, I would do my best to describe the individual and the approximate date when the weapon was sold. I have no desire to be complicit to a murderer or drug dealer, etc. The bottom line is that the next round of gun laws will probably be to close off the ability of two average citizens with no legal problems from privately selling a weapon one to the other without the same kind of documentation and background check done by FFL's. I think that citizens should retain the right to personal commerce without interference from government unless the commerce itself is illegal. I would be in favor of strict penalties including incarceration for the private sale of a weapon used in a killing IF it could be proven that the seller KNEW the intent of the buyer and sold it anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman76 Posted June 29, 2016 #182 Share Posted June 29, 2016 On 6/27/2016 at 0:15 PM, Farmer77 said: Voting doesnt work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tu32CCA_Ig Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bama13 Posted June 29, 2016 #183 Share Posted June 29, 2016 Since every damn person on earth is a potential criminal maybe everyone should go into a criminal database and their government should track them? Can't believe that any person would think this was a good idea. Putting people that have committed no crime into a criminal database is ludicrous. I have little faith in the USSC anymore, but surely even they can see that this is against the Constitution as this constitutes a Bill of Attainder, which are illegal under Section 9 of the Constitution. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorvir Posted June 29, 2016 #184 Share Posted June 29, 2016 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Bama13 said: Since every damn person on earth is a potential criminal maybe everyone should go into a criminal database and their government should track them? Can't believe that any person would think this was a good idea. Putting people that have committed no crime into a criminal database is ludicrous. I have little faith in the USSC anymore, but surely even they can see that this is against the Constitution as this constitutes a Bill of Attainder, which are illegal under Section 9 of the Constitution. The balance will tip in favor of the left soon when it comes to the USSC, so it's going to get even worse. And soon. And if this is what Hawaiians want, then that's what they're going to get. I'll just make sure I never go to Hawaii for any reason whatsoever, and stay in the actual free states of the Union. Edited June 29, 2016 by Thorvir Hrothgaard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Duck Posted June 30, 2016 #185 Share Posted June 30, 2016 On 6/30/2016 at 0:51 AM, Bama13 said: Since every damn person on earth is a potential criminal maybe everyone should go into a criminal database and their government should track them? Can't believe that any person would think this was a good idea. Putting people that have committed no crime into a criminal database is ludicrous. I have little faith in the USSC anymore, but surely even they can see that this is against the Constitution as this constitutes a Bill of Attainder, which are illegal under Section 9 of the Constitution. Isn't Hawaii just asking for an alert when a licensee has some specified offence, in any other state, recorded against them? It seems that Hawaii gun licensees are being recorded as holding a position of trust - not criminals. You could do the same same with teachers and ask for an alert when a child sex offence, in any state, was recorded against them. Rap Back Facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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