Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -

Why do you Believe?


XenoFish

Recommended Posts

I'm putting this here instead of the skepticism section. Because I am honestly curious why you believe what you believe. At one time I had faith in a lot of things. That mix of curiosity and desire. Wishful belief if you want to call it that. Now, I find there is nothing spiritual to believe in and I just want to know the motivation you have for your spiritual beliefs. What does it do for you? Does it satisfy some emotional or social need for you? Please explain this to me.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believed, when I did believe, because I trusted the adults around me who believed and was following what I had been instructed was real as a toddler and a child.  I believed completely and implicitly having no doubts but many questions to what I had been taught and told and so I fearlessly dug as deep as I was able and as I began to come into my young adult mind, in order to understand and actually experience the mystery.  I was utterly tenacious and undeterred by pat and incomplete or nonsensical answers. 

So, when my questions about the contradictions I uncovered and the fallacies I experienced due to them (born of the dissonance of critical thinking and the experiences that were incongruent with the stories) went unanswered, either due to the inability of my Sunday school teachers/youth ministers or their unwillingness to face the fallacies and subsequent cognitive dissonance these engendered... I then stopped asking them and studied the bible my self.  I figured God had made me with my mind, so I must use it to cut through the bull**** and would be rewarded accordingly.  Boy was I right!

During my first reading of the Bible, my apostasy had begun of its own accord.  By the time I'd finished my full study of it, the dissonance was impossible to dismiss any longer and then my challenges to the adults around me was constant, fierce and unforgiving.  I left the church in short order.

I believed because I trusted the adults around me until I no longer could trust them, or their non-answers.  For many years after my realizations of the fallacies and the duplicity, I was angry.  Not any more however.  I realize the 'chains of belief'  (always remember a hymn we would sing that causes shudders now "bind us together lord, bind us together, with chains that cannot be broken)  I realized these chains of belief were forged for the adults around me just as they had been for me and they weren't reiterating them out of some grand scheme, it was just that they had no ability or desire to delve into the tough questions and contradictions and when faced with them, would hide, fib, or shut down, either themselves or me.

In the end, awakening is not the easy path.  It does not bring peace, at least not initially.  It is for most, a rather lengthy painful process to look into unflinchingly into the untruths that we harbor, perpetuate and participate in.  But peace did come and abides now, in the letting go.  I no longer hold stock in fighting others beliefs.  If they don't have the drive to question, or the ability to observe their own dissonance, and as long as they are doing no harm to others in their pursuit... I now am quite content to let them have their beliefs and I just let go and move on in peace.  I've found my Path and I walk it in contentment.

 

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have been reading you, you don't seem the type to be an atheist, but an angry somebody who is pouting on some level.  I am an agnostic, a soft one.....but.....because of that I don't expect reality to be a certain way, or get mad if situations go sour.  Your beliefs are a reaction in any case and not well thought out at all......suffering has no bearing if god exists or not, nor the whole college freshman stance on who created god, this has all been answered.......you say you would like to believe, then blame others for fantasy when they do have some sort of faith.....which is it with you......self pity is not an attractive trait.....hope you can outgrow that......what does your stand on the god issue do for you.....does it make you feel stronger, better, braver than others.....it would seem to be that you are not brave enough to actually try to find out what you believe.  True atheist, at least the ones I hang with, do not whine, nor cry about how bad life is too them, they just embrace what they believe is the nature of reality......so if you are an atheist just embrace it and stop worrying why others do have beliefs of some sort.......village atheist are just as annoying as Westboro Bapt believers.  Have a nice day.....life.....or whatever.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

39 minutes ago, dougeaton said:

I have been reading you, you don't seem the type to be an atheist, but an angry somebody who is pouting on some level.  I am an agnostic, a soft one.....but.....because of that I don't expect reality to be a certain way, or get mad if situations go sour.  Your beliefs are a reaction in any case and not well thought out at all......suffering has no bearing if god exists or not, nor the whole college freshman stance on who created god, this has all been answered.......you say you would like to believe, then blame others for fantasy when they do have some sort of faith.....which is it with you......self pity is not an attractive trait.....hope you can outgrow that......what does your stand on the god issue do for you.....does it make you feel stronger, better, braver than others.....it would seem to be that you are not brave enough to actually try to find out what you believe.  True atheist, at least the ones I hang with, do not whine, nor cry about how bad life is too them, they just embrace what they believe is the nature of reality......so if you are an atheist just embrace it and stop worrying why others do have beliefs of some sort.......village atheist are just as annoying as Westboro Bapt believers.  Have a nice day.....life.....or whatever.

Would you rather answer my question are continue attacking my person? 

Thank you for your response QuiXilver. Much appreciated.

Edited by XenoFish
Wrong person lol
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Never thought you would get into the challenge of ''beliefs'', as you know, beliefs are energies rooted in something, dogma, scripture, other. 

Logic has no hold on beliefs, only experience may dent beliefs, so it takes some time to see changes in beliefs if there are reasons for it.

My take on it!

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, Hyades said:

Never thought you would get into the challenge of ''beliefs'', as you know, beliefs are energies rooted in something, dogma, scripture, other. 

Logic has no hold on beliefs, only experience may dent beliefs, so it takes some time to see changes in beliefs if there are reasons for it.

My take on it!

But why do you believe what you believe? That's my real question. I'm looking to find what motivates people to believe in spiritual things. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believe in God, in Christ.    It was a long and varied search I went on long ago to fill a void within my life.  I was raised with God somewhat in my life but was also allowed to search on my own and see what direction I wanted to go.  I was yearning for something, I wasn't sure what.  While listening to a guest speaker at the church I now attend, I was struck by his complete honesty and simplicity.  I felt something deep inside me awaken and I realized that I wanted something more to the life I was living.  I became voracious, studying the bible and talking to many people.  The more I learned, the more I wanted to learn.  At first, it did not come easily.  I had a lot of anger in my heart.   With time my attitude softened and I learned to love others.  I guess what I'm trying to say in a long-winded way is that I believe in God b/c I have happiness and peace in my life through my belief, despite hardships.   I want to continue to strive to make this world a better place.  

  • Like 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believe what I believe, many things are behind what I stand on today.

First, the early programming I was schooled in at early age, followed by the influence of peers, societal, came forward. I repeated similar pattern as friends, work, studies, initiated to New Age thinking, other training/workshops, and then training with a Peruvian Shaman, university diplomas, diverse experiences, all that fostered my believe in Love, the almighty one, now you know the rest of the story.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@tcgram

So would you agree or disagree that having a simplistic belief is better than an overly complicated faith?

While I do not believe in God (in the common sense of the word) I do not believe in anything supernatural (no real proof for me), I do hold faith in something more. It has no labels and needs nor waits anything from me. While this might make me agnostic in general terms I don't hold an equilibrium between belief and disbelief. I'm apatheistic to the idea of god.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apatheism

I believe that I should always strive to be a better person than I was yesterday. 

Thank you for your response.

2 minutes ago, Hyades said:

I believe what I believe, many things are behind what I stand on today.

First, the early programming I was schooled in at early age, followed by the influence of peers, societal, came forward. I repeated similar pattern as friends, work, studies, initiated to New Age thinking, other training/workshops, and then training with a Peruvian Shaman, university diplomas, diverse experiences, all that fostered my believe in Love, the almighty one, now you know the rest of the story.

Thank you for the insight. Much appreciated. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

For me personally, having a simplistic belief is better.  But I cannot speak for everyone. :)

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your question ( Why do people believe in god? ) is the sole reason of why I joined this site six years ago...... And in all of this time I've never heard a single answer that made any sense to me outside of that they were raised into it. My question is now more of what keeps people believing in god. There's obviously no factual evidence for a god which only leaves personal anecdotes and these seem to vary significantly from person to person. I'll keep my fingers crossed but I doubt either of us will get an answer that is even remotely satisfying.

I was born in a home without religion and have lived my entire life as an atheist and the more I try to figure out peoples' belief in god, my disbelief is solidified....... 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm starting to think it's more about satisfying some emotional need. But what emotional need exactly? 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have many believers as friends and for the most part none of them fit into any sweeping category.   I have read C.S. Lewis and others writers who have come to faith, they were life long atheist, C.S. Lewis did not really want to believe at least that is stated in his writings.  I think belief and non belief come from some deep place that we can't reach.  I also know people who were raised in believing families and left and of course the opposite is true as well........we may never know. 

I know many angry atheist and some peaceful ones, just as I know the same with believers/theist/Buddhist/new age/Wicca etc.....some peaceful others angry.  Atheism in my mind is no more rational than belief, both are statements made about reality that can't be proven......some use science to back up their claims for backing their beliefs.....others I guess from some sort of personal experience.....of which I have had none.

The idea of god can be absurd, but so can a system where there is no god at all.......it is frustrating for agnostics.  Xeno'fish talking about believing in something that is beyond all concepts is what my friends who are theist say as well........

At bottom both are irrational, though I guess we use our ability to use our minds to come with something that convinces us that it is logical, when it fact it might not be at all......

Edited by dougeaton
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, XenoFish said:

I'm starting to think it's more about satisfying some emotional need. But what emotional need exactly? 

Fear of dying and having that death be final? Fear of not being forgiven for their sins? Or wanting to believe in an afterlife so they can worship god into eternity which makes them feel special? Who knows.....

I'm just glad I don't have to worry about it. I have no fear of death, I've never sinned and I just can't imagine worshiping anything....

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Euphorbia said:

Fear of dying and having that death be final? Fear of not being forgiven for their sins? Or wanting to believe in an afterlife so they can worship god into eternity which makes them feel special? Who knows.....

I'm just glad I don't have to worry about it. I have no fear of death, I've never sinned and I just can't imagine worshiping anything....

I feel about the same. I'm a rather laid back person. Never could take life too serious. I think I'm still working through the indoctrination I went through as a kid. I think my Zen is just living a simple yet enjoyable life. Without some kind of supernatural expectation placed on me. Maybe that why I approached magick the way I did. Didn't take it serious. It was just for fun. Even though I did put serious time testing claims. That was depressing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was raised in Christianity and left if looking for answers that were more in harmony with the physical world I could observe everyday.  I have wandered away from the second belief system too.  I have become a software-ist.  I believe we are like programs on a computer.  When our body the computer ceases to function, this wonderful software ceases to function. As physical decay occurs, the software, the information stored that is you ceases to be.  I believe that because it is consistent with what we have learned about the universe and what we are learning now.  It is sufficient to explain he facts we know.  If we discover that information can be retained in a non-physical way, I might reconsider.  It doesn't make me fell less or cheated, what we have in the moment is wonderful.  I must admit i do have a sense of gratitude, I think it is sort of vaguely focused on the world in general rather than a creator.   Sort of like the way some people name and talk to their cars.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I feel about the same. I'm a rather laid back person. Never could take life too serious. I think I'm still working through the indoctrination I went through as a kid. I think my Zen is just living a simple yet enjoyable life. Without some kind of supernatural expectation placed on me. Maybe that why I approached magick the way I did. Didn't take it serious. It was just for fun. Even though I did put serious time testing claims. That was depressing.

Sorry you had to go through the indoctrination. Fortunately for me, nobody tried that on me until I was older and wiser and thus was able to see it for what it was. My life certainly isn't perfect, but at least I don't have another set of rules and such from the religious types. Laid back is good.........not having religion is priceless.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Religion to me has always been a double edged sword. While it might enhance a naturally good person, it can also justify horrid behavior in the wrong person. I will admit that the psychological benefits are there, because occult practices work the same way. Focusing the mind, calming the mind, and programming the subconscious. I enjoy magick because I know how it works.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, dougeaton said:

I have many believers as friends and for the most part none of them fit into any sweeping category.   I have read C.S. Lewis and others writers who have come to faith, they were life long atheist, C.S. Lewis did not really want to believe at least that is stated in his writings.  I think belief and non belief come from some deep place that we can't reach.  I also know people who were raised in believing families and left and of course the opposite is true as well........we may never know. 

I know many angry atheist and some peaceful ones, just as I know the same with believers/theist/Buddhist/new age/Wicca etc.....some peaceful others angry.  Atheism in my mind is no more rational than belief, both are statements made about reality that can't be proven......some use science to back up their claims for backing their beliefs.....others I guess from some sort of personal experience.....of which I have had none.

The idea of god can be absurd, but so can a system where there is no god at all.......it is frustrating for agnostics.  Xeno'fish talking about believing in something that is beyond all concepts is what my friends who are theist say as well........

At bottom both are irrational, though I guess we use our ability to use our minds to come with something that convinces us that it is logical, when it fact it might not be at all......

Well, I'm a peaceful atheist. I've never treated a Christian any better or worse than anyone else. I have thought of telling religious types that come to my door to leave and never come back, but I always just say I'm not interested and leave it at that. I just find it hard to be mean to people.

Atheism is a very rational standpoint. For the vast majority of atheists like myself we don't state that god doesn't exist and we rely solely on actual facts. The angry ones you speak of are to me quite rare. They are the ones that state unequivocally that god does not exist. Not all but some of these hard atheists can be in your face jerks, but I'm not sure I've ever met one.

I find belief to be completely irrational as It's not based on anything factual.......

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Euphorbia said:

Well, I'm a peaceful atheist. I've never treated a Christian any better or worse than anyone else. I have thought of telling religious types that come to my door to leave and never come back, but I always just say I'm not interested and leave it at that. I just find it hard to be mean to people.

Atheism is a very rational standpoint. For the vast majority of atheists like myself we don't state that god doesn't exist and we rely solely on actual facts. The angry ones you speak of are to me quite rare. They are the ones that state unequivocally that god does not exist. Not all but some of these hard atheists can be in your face jerks, but I'm not sure I've ever met one.

I find belief to be completely irrational as It's not based on anything factual.......

I think the hard core cases only become hard core when they meet someone from the other camp who just like them. So of course you will not meet any in your face atheist, since you will not challenge or disagree with them.  Labels are usually based on the subjective interpretation of the one on the receiving end. Like narrow minded, stupid, fundie, or village atheist.  These are not held by the one on which the label is applied.  Labeling while useful is often illogical in how it is applied, since they are often wriong and too general in nature.  People are unique, labels tries to destroy that. 

Belief in God is not against logic, for there are arguments in favor of the existence of God.  I agree with Doug, we have beliefs then find ways of defending them.  Rational arguments for the existence of God do not prove anything, but to the believer they simply give them the knowledge that their belief is not against logic.  The fact that you will not agree with this has no bearing on the case.  We each have a different starting point, so that is good I believe.  For me, like Doug has stated before, the only truly logical stance perhaps is in fact agnosticism.   We tend to gather information that will bolster our beliefs or non beliefs which also hinders us I believe.  

Here are some of the main arguments for the existence of God.  I am sure you have read them and have not been convinced, not trying to change your mind.  However, the arguments are rational and logical.  Logic does not bring one to truth, they are ways of presentation that make sense for the one presenting them, if the hearer does not agree, well they start from a different premise.

http://www.peterkreeft.com/topics-more/20_arguments-gods-existence.htm

Even though I am a believer, I am also comfortable with doubt, however that does not water down faith, but can be a goad to go deeper.....

Peace
Mark. 

 

Edited by markdohle
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Atheism makes no sense to me Xeno, when young I read Bertrand Russell, Camus, Satre  Ayn Rand.  They were interesting people, though I think Bertrand Russel was a bit of a pric ;-).   I also read C. S. Lewis, Kierkegaard, Gabriel Marcel and they made more sense to me.  Also personal experience comes into play as well.  I still have an interest in atheistic thought and like to follow some of the debates on youtube.  Some are quite good, like the one with Dawkins and Lennox.

Personal experience is important.  Many atheist become believers after they come face to face with an event that they deemed impossible.  Materialism and atheism seem smothering to me.  People believe, I believe because it rings true.  Also because I spend time in study and prayer.  I seek to understand more deeply as well as have a deep loving relationship with the Infinite.  For an atheist this makes no sense and I accept that, but atheism is just another system of understanding the world.  

Jesus Christ is also real to me, the resurrection happened, that is the only reason Christianity survived the way it did.  I know there are schools of thought that disagree with that, but if one is not a believer they have to find some way to deal with Jesus Christ. 

Faith is also a gift, I have accepted it, deepened it and sought to have a trusting relationship with God

This is something I posted in another thread that deals with faith and prayer:


We question, struggle and seek to find answers to life’s mysteries.  I believe that prayer is a universal response to the world and its often incomprehensible presence in our lives.  We can marvel at its beauty, or be terrified at its seeming indifference to us.  This reality drives many deeper into faith, into seeking what is behind this wonderful, awful, beautiful and tragic world.  Those like the Mocking Bird who continue in their prayer life, find that in spite of themselves deep changes take place slowly over the years.  They also learn that prayer is not a protection to the ups and downs of life, yet it gives a center to stand from, a relationship with Infinite-Mystery and in that even aging seems like a grace, for we begin to understand that all stages in our lives are good, but each succeeding stage on our pilgrimage is more important than the one proceeding it.  So our last years take on a depth of meaning that younger people may not have any inkling of.  I certainly did not.

 So we continue to sing, in spite of suffering, and in our unconscious futile desire to make prayer into some sort of magic where we can control our lives and get through it unscathed.  This is impossible of course.  For like that Mocking Bird singing hopefully for a response, it will one day be silent, it will no longer be part of this world…..so it is with us, though unlike the Mocking Bird we are saddled with the knowledge that we will one day cease to exist as far as this world is concerned. 

So like Mother Theresa, many go through life living in the darkness of faith, yet, in their seeking they continue out of true love and the desire for truth….for me these are the great souls closer to the mystery than those of us who do not live there all the time.

Faith is a gift, yet we do have to respond, be open and deal with doubts.  Yet why should doubt get the last word, why not let doubt drive us deeper in the mystery instead of escaping into skepticism and atheism.  For the Christian the New Testament points to the reality of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ.  It is because of that and that only that it was written in the first place.  Without the Resurrection, Jesus was just another failed messianic figure, so common in his lifetime.—Br.MD

 

Thank you Xeno for the question, always good hearing from you.

 

Peace
mark

 

 

Edited by markdohle
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No problem Mark. The more time I spent thinking about my position on spiritual things, I realize that I can not be an atheist because it's an absolute nor can I be a theist because again it's an absolute. Agnosticism was once my belief, for me it held that it was a possibility for the existence of a spirit based reality. Yet that didn't quite fly with me. However Apatheism which is more along the lines of not worrying about the existence of god/spirits/angels/demons/ etc seems to fit. When I really think about how I feel towards these things, I will admit that past trauma plays a role. That I am perhaps some weird Agnostic Apatheist. Still trying to figure my personal beliefs out and that's why I question. Sadly I also project as well.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

For me it comes down to the fact that the things that matter arent measurable. Love, justice, hope, beauty all seem to mean something to people and yet defy quantification. We accept them as part of our daily lives despite this.

For me Wrestling from a logocal positivist origin to a more existential position is how I ended up in such a position. I can either live to the silent exclusion of such ideas or embrace that subjectivity isnt synonymous with "untruth" but truth of a different kind; truth that actually mattered to me for once. Transcendent truth.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.