China completes world's largest telescope

[UM-Bot]

The massive 500-meter dish will be used to help scientists hunt for signs of extraterrestrial life.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2016/07/04/china-completes-the-worlds-largest-telescope-to-find-aliens/

[Nnicolette]

I find it interesting that they equate finding amino acids with finding alien life and yet thet are already found on comets.

[Rlyeh]

11 minutes ago, Nnicolette said:

I find it interesting that they equate finding amino acids with finding alien life and yet thet are already found on comets.

So they should be looking for life on comets..?

[Waspie_Dwarf]

3 minutes ago, Nnicolette said:

I find it interesting that they equate finding amino acids with finding alien life and yet thet are already found on comets.

I'm not sure why these two things should appear contradictory. 

Amino acids are the building blocks of life. Finding them on comets provides a possible explanation of how they arrived at Earth. It also makes it highly likely that they are present on other bodies in the solar system and hence improve the chances of their being life in the solar system, off of Earth.

Detecting amino acids in deep space (which is what this new radio telescope will atempt to do) would provide a possible source for the amino acids on comets. It would also show that the amino acids are ubiquitous, increasing the probability that life is common throughout the galaxy and the universe.

[UFOwatcher]

I found it interesting but sad that they relocated 9,000 people to limit RF noise in the area.

[Waspie_Dwarf]

20 minutes ago, UFOwatcher said:

I found it interesting but sad that they relocated 9,000 people to limit RF noise in the area.

Is it any more interesting or sad that people should be relocated for this than if it was for new roads, new railways, for a military base or for a hydroelectric power system?

There are many projects in many countries that require the relocation of people, not just in China.

Edited July 4, 2016 by Waspie_Dwarf

[Khanivore]

Yes but what type of amino acids, only certain types come together to form the building blocks of life and they have to be in the right combination etc. I think if there was life else where more developed than ourselves or similar, we would have picked up signs of their existence by now.

[kobolds]

spend 180 million for a telescope . is that really worth it ?

[PersonFromPorlock]

Calling amino acids 'life' is like calling stones 'buildings'.

[Dark_Grey]

55 minutes ago, PersonFromPorlock said:

Calling amino acids 'life' is like calling stones 'buildings'.

Agreed. While not technically incorrect, it just makes for better headlines.

[universal skeptic]

Why bother, we all know they're already here. Waste of money.

[Waspie_Dwarf]

27 minutes ago, universal skeptic said:

Why bother, we all know they're already here. Waste of money.

Actually no we don't know any such thing. Knowledge, unlike belief, requires inconvenient things like evidence and proof. 

If you consider knowledge a waste of money that is your choice. Fortunately for the human race, there are enough that disagree with you, which is why we don't still live in caves banging rocks together to make tools.

[jpjoe]

9000 people got scammed out of their homes for this. Typical china.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/02/18/world/asia/china-fast-telescope-guizhou-relocation.html

[jpjoe]

16 hours ago, Waspie_Dwarf said:

Is it any more interesting or sad that people should be relocated for this than if it was for new roads, new railways, for a military base or for a hydroelectric power system?

There are many projects in many countries that require the relocation of people, not just in China.

I would find that acceptable if the villagers recieved apt compensation..

[universal skeptic]

16 hours ago, universal skeptic said:

Why bother, we all know they're already here. Waste of money.

 

15 hours ago, Waspie_Dwarf said:

Actually no we don't know any such thing. Knowledge, unlike belief, requires inconvenient things like evidence and proof. 

If you consider knowledge a waste of money that is your choice. Fortunately for the human race, there are enough that disagree with you, which is why we don't still live in caves banging rocks together to make tools.

You must belong to the conventional scientific grant-suckers community Waspie_Dwarf, and/or support their suppression of non-conventional knowledge (or theories) that researchers brave enough to think outside the box bring to the attention of those of us who are open-minded enough to consider the possibilities. You also need to learn to read outside of the box and not jump to conclusions that suit your biases. I didn't state that knowledge is a waste of money. I was only referring to the obscenely expensive 500m-wide Aperture Spherical Telescope, money that could be much better spent for the benefit of the human race so we don't find ourselves living back in caves some day in the future. Furthermore, I was being facetious about "they're already here", although I do not discount the fact  that many of the thousands of ordinary citizens, as well as many reputable sources in the military and research community, just may be telling the truth when they tell us "aliens are here". And let us not forget that "inconvenient things like evidence and proof" are easy enough to fabricate or discount, depending on which side of the fence you inhabit.

 

[pallidin]

I wonder if China's project has more to do with gaining signal intel on orbiting satellites, as well as an offensive posture.

And yes, with a uniquely constructed "dish" the focal-collection point can be moved (instead of the dish itself) to permit a very wide observation area to then focus on for intel collection, passive, and/or to direct high energy EM to disable satellites.

That's what I think this is.

[Waspie_Dwarf]

39 minutes ago, pallidin said:

I wonder if China's project has more to do with gaining signal intel on orbiting satellites, as well as an offensive posture.

It is as close to the wrong design for that purpose as it possible to be. Satellites in low Earth orbit move across the sky rather rapidly. To track them you need a fully steerable dish capable of fast movement, not a massive, virtually non-steerable dish which can basically look straight up.

 

42 minutes ago, pallidin said:

And yes, with a uniquely constructed "dish" the focal-collection point can be moved (instead of the dish itself) to permit a very wide observation area to then focus on for intel collection, passive, and/or to direct high energy EM to disable satellites.

What is unique about this dish? It is the largest in the world admittedly, but in design it is very similar to Arecebo (with some technological advances not available when Arecebo was built). The very limitation of such telescopes is that they have a very NARROW observation area, The ability to move the focal point allows for some tracking ability but only by a few degrees, not the horizon to horizon tracking ability of a fully steerable dish. For Arecebo this observing area is just 40 degrees:

Quote

The platform has a rotating, bow-shaped track 93 m (305 ft) long, called the azimuth arm, carrying the receiving antennas and secondary and tertiary reflectors. This allows the telescope to observe any region of the sky in a forty-degree cone of visibility about the local zenith (between −1 and 38 degrees of declination).

Source: wikipedia
 

The Chinese telescope will have a slightly better usable field of view, but even then this is effectively only a cone of 60 to 80 degrees:

Quote

Still, the 300 m effective dish diameter is achievable by Arecibo only for observations at zenith, and the deeper active dish makes FAST capable of covering the sky within ±40° from the zenith (compared to Arecibo's ±20° range). The effective aperture is reduced by vignetting at angles above ±30°.

Source: wikipedia

As a device for gaining intel on satellites why make it so huge? That makes no sense. By their very nature satellites transmit radio waves. To listen to those radio waves you would require a dish no bigger than the ground station the satellite owner uses. The trick is not intercepting the signals it is decoding them and you don't need the world's largest radio telescope for that.

As for being an offensive weapon that makes no sense either. A weapon that can't be pointed at the target and would need to wait until the target satellite passed almost directly over it would not be much use as a weapon at all.

[pallidin]

2 hours ago, Waspie_Dwarf said:

It is as close to the wrong design for that purpose as it possible to be. Satellites in low Earth orbit move across the sky rather rapidly. To track them you need a fully steerable dish capable of fast movement, not a massive, virtually non-steerable dish which can basically look straight up.

 

What is unique about this dish? It is the largest in the world admittedly, but in design it is very similar to Arecebo (with some technological advances not available when Arecebo was built). The very limitation of such telescopes is that they have a very NARROW observation area, The ability to move the focal point allows for some tracking ability but only by a few degrees, not the horizon to horizon tracking ability of a fully steerable dish. For Arecebo this observing area is just 40 degrees:

Source: wikipedia
 

The Chinese telescope will have a slightly better usable field of view, but even then this is effectively only a cone of 60 to 80 degrees:

Source: wikipedia

As a device for gaining intel on satellites why make it so huge? That makes no sense. By their very nature satellites transmit radio waves. To listen to those radio waves you would require a dish no bigger than the ground station the satellite owner uses. The trick is not intercepting the signals it is decoding them and you don't need the world's largest radio telescope for that.

As for being an offensive weapon that makes no sense either. A weapon that can't be pointed at the target and would need to wait until the target satellite passed almost directly over it would not be much use as a weapon at all.

OK, that makes sense.

[jpjoe]

6 hours ago, Waspie_Dwarf said:

 

As for being an offensive weapon that makes no sense either. A weapon that can't be pointed at the target and would need to wait until the target satellite passed almost directly over it would not be much use as a weapon at all.

A culture which drives many species to extinction and suffocates their own citizens for the sake of money, is suddenly interested in spending millions on an unproven ET hunt.

Are they going to claim that alien slime can cure cancer?

Nothing but another communistic propaganda. Jinping's north korean allies must be very proud.

Edited July 6, 2016 by jpjoe

[Nnicolette]

On 7/4/2016 at 5:14 AM, Rlyeh said:

So they should be looking for life on comets..?

No. Thats ridiculous.

[Nnicolette]

On 7/4/2016 at 2:36 PM, universal skeptic said:

Why bother, we all know they're already here. Waste of money.

Why would knowing they are here be reason not to locate them? Seems more likely to me that all these hunts we are on mean that they do know that.

[Nnicolette]

On 7/4/2016 at 5:14 AM, Waspie_Dwarf said:

I'm not sure why these two things should appear contradictory. 

I dont believe i said they wre.

On 7/4/2016 at 5:14 AM, Waspie_Dwarf said:

Amino acids are the building blocks of life. Finding them on comets provides a possible explanation of how they arrived at Earth. It also makes it highly likely that they are present on other bodies in the solar system and hence improve the chances of their being life in the solar system, off of Earth.

Doesnt thier presence on bodies that dont contain life mean that thier presence elsewhere would also not necessarily involve life?

On 7/4/2016 at 5:14 AM, Waspie_Dwarf said:

Detecting amino acids in deep space (which is what this new radio telescope will atempt to do) would provide a possible source for the amino acids on comets. It would also show that the amino acids are ubiquitous, increasing the probability that life is common throughout the galaxy and the universe.

Once again that would not necessarily connotate life.

[Waspie_Dwarf]

2 hours ago, Nnicolette said:

I dont believe i said they wre.

No, but the way you phrased your post rather implied it.

 

2 hours ago, Nnicolette said:

Doesnt thier presence on bodies that dont contain life mean that thier presence elsewhere would also not necessarily involve life?

No one said it did. What I said was:

Quote

Amino acids are the building blocks of life.

And:

Quote

It would also show that the amino acids are ubiquitous, increasing the probability that life is common throughout the galaxy and the universe.

 

2 hours ago, Nnicolette said:

Once again that would not necessarily connotate life.

Once again this is a strawman argument as I did not make that claim. There is a huge difference between probability and necessary.

[Waspie_Dwarf]

3 hours ago, Nnicolette said:

No. Thats ridiculous.

Why is it ridiculous? Several advocates of the pamspermia hypothesis have suggested that life could have originated on comets.

[Nnicolette]

Oh i know i got the highest score in my class for writing about panspermia which i thought i came up with in grade school as we were asked to secretly write our beliefs of creatipn or evolution. It has always been a truth to me before outside teachings. But that isnt what i was getting at. My point is that the existence of the molecules on comet does not signify the life exists there, so it isnt really valid to assume that it would exist anywhere else where they are found either. (Phone issues-->)arefound