Thorvir Posted July 10, 2016 #26 Share Posted July 10, 2016 4 hours ago, RoofGardener said: Woah.. wait.. doesn't "bis" imply a twin-seat trainer version ? Not an actual combat aircraft ? No, it's a add-on to denote an improved model or a newer series (not necessarily improved). It's also used on some tanks, and it's not just a Russian thing, the French have used it as well, probably others. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only_ Posted July 10, 2016 #27 Share Posted July 10, 2016 (edited) 41 minutes ago, and then said: America would certainly be blamed whether we supplied them or not. They wouldn't be blamed if they hadn't sided with the ''moderate rebels'' as did the Saudis, Qataries and Turks. Edited July 10, 2016 by TruthSeeker_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted July 10, 2016 #28 Share Posted July 10, 2016 2 minutes ago, TruthSeeker_ said: They wouldn't be blamed if they hadn't sided with the ''moderate rebels'' as did the Saudis, Qataries and Turks. And your point? That the Russians wouldn't have a problem with us if we hadn't resisted their will in any way? Not exactly a real world possibility now is it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only_ Posted July 10, 2016 #29 Share Posted July 10, 2016 (edited) 7 minutes ago, and then said: And your point? That the Russians wouldn't have a problem with us if we hadn't resisted their will in any way? Not exactly a real world possibility now is it? My point is that the US and it's regional allies have prolonged this conflict and created a mess by arming various rebels groups when it was clear from the start that the only moderate, sane and reasonable group were those fighting for the Syrian governement. Edited July 10, 2016 by TruthSeeker_ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted July 11, 2016 #30 Share Posted July 11, 2016 (edited) But surely the pro-Government forces where in the thrall of an Evil Dictator with Soviet Russian Sympathies ? Edited July 11, 2016 by RoofGardener Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted July 11, 2016 #31 Share Posted July 11, 2016 There's something a bit odd about the video of this helicopter. At about 8 seconds in, we see a flash underneath the helicopter, and what appears to be a small cloud of black smoke. (which falls 'backwards' as the helicopter moves forwards). At first I thought the helicopter was firing rockets.. However, looking at it frame-by-frame, this doesn't appear to be the case, as there is no rocket going forwards. This happens again about half-a-second later, and again another half-second later. Finally, a fraction of a second later there is a MUCH bigger flash... more of a flare/explosion... on the helicopters rear rotor, with a huge cloud of smoke, and bits visibly falling off the back of the helicopter. At this point.. and for the first time... it departs from level flight and is obviously in trouble. (it kinda looks like the rear rotor was destroyed). So in total there where FOUR flashes, with the final one being much larger and doing visible damage. What is really puzzling me is that at no point can I see anything approaching the helicopter. I would have expected a MANPAD-type missile to leave a smoke trail, and have a glowing rocket engine. Nothing like this is visible at any point in the run-up to those 'flashes'. Also, the final "flare/explosion" is MUCH bigger and brighter than the preceeding three 'flashes'. It has a completely different visual appearance. Most odd ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeder Posted July 11, 2016 Author #32 Share Posted July 11, 2016 6 hours ago, RoofGardener said: There's something a bit odd about the video of this helicopter. What is really puzzling me is that at no point can I see anything approaching the helicopter. I would have expected a MANPAD-type missile to leave a smoke trail, and have a glowing rocket engine. Nothing like this is visible at any point in the run-up to those 'flashes'. Also, the final "flare/explosion" is MUCH bigger and brighter than the preceeding three 'flashes'. It has a completely different visual appearance. Can you see this Manpad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorvir Posted July 11, 2016 #33 Share Posted July 11, 2016 1 hour ago, seeder said: Can you see this Manpad? That was a hell of a shot for a manpad. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted July 11, 2016 #34 Share Posted July 11, 2016 1 hour ago, seeder said: Can you see this Manpad? Oh GOSH yes.... It's not very obvious in the original video you posted, but I've put it through a Gaussian Filter algorithm, and applied some contrast boost... and if you look carefully... I think you can JUST see it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted July 11, 2016 #35 Share Posted July 11, 2016 In response to RG in post 9 hours ago, RoofGardener said: There's something a bit odd about the video of this helicopter. At about 8 seconds in, we see a flash underneath the helicopter, and what appears to be a small cloud of black smoke. (which falls 'backwards' as the helicopter moves forwards). At first I thought the helicopter was firing rockets.. However, looking at it frame-by-frame, this doesn't appear to be the case, as there is no rocket going forwards. This happens again about half-a-second later, and again another half-second later. Finally, a fraction of a second later there is a MUCH bigger flash... more of a flare/explosion... on the helicopters rear rotor, with a huge cloud of smoke, and bits visibly falling off the back of the helicopter. At this point.. and for the first time... it departs from level flight and is obviously in trouble. (it kinda looks like the rear rotor was destroyed). So in total there where FOUR flashes, with the final one being much larger and doing visible damage. What is really puzzling me is that at no point can I see anything approaching the helicopter. I would have expected a MANPAD-type missile to leave a smoke trail, and have a glowing rocket engine. Nothing like this is visible at any point in the run-up to those 'flashes'. Also, the final "flare/explosion" is MUCH bigger and brighter than the preceeding three 'flashes'. It has a completely different visual appearance. Most odd ! Modern rockets aren't as slow leaving the tubes as they used to be. The flashes are about right for the helo launching weapons. The tail being blown off is very odd for a manpad though. They usually are heat seekers. If a TOW WAS used, all I can say is it was one heck of a shot. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted July 11, 2016 #36 Share Posted July 11, 2016 I don't think they where rocket launches, And Then; there was no sign of anything moving forwards from the helicopter, no smoke trails, and no rocket engine glow; just a brief flash. Still... who knows ? What did you think of my 'filtered' video above, showing the manpad strike ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmk1245 Posted July 11, 2016 #37 Share Posted July 11, 2016 19 hours ago, TruthSeeker_ said: Or one of the rebel's sponsors: [LINK] Saudi Arabian FM Says Syrian Rebels Should Be Provided With Surface-To-Air Missiles I can see a scenario where those weapons are changing hands, even if SA didn't directly gave some to ISIS. One of the possibilities. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmk1245 Posted July 11, 2016 #38 Share Posted July 11, 2016 46 minutes ago, and then said: In response to RG in post Modern rockets aren't as slow leaving the tubes as they used to be. The flashes are about right for the helo launching weapons. The tail being blown off is very odd for a manpad though. They usually are heat seekers. If a TOW WAS used, all I can say is it was one heck of a shot. Beside heat seeking sensor, SA-16 (IGLA-1) SAMs have induction sensors, triggering explosion when SAM flies near metallic surface. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted July 11, 2016 #39 Share Posted July 11, 2016 1 hour ago, RoofGardener said: I don't think they where rocket launches, And Then; there was no sign of anything moving forwards from the helicopter, no smoke trails, and no rocket engine glow; just a brief flash. Still... who knows ? What did you think of my 'filtered' video above, showing the manpad strike ? It was a lucky hit since one fin was decidedly warped Also, just a thought but a US light anti tank weapon L.A.W. is a tube fired rocket that shows only a back blast. It sounds very much like a massive shotgun going off but only in the movies do you see anything other than the strike on the target. Maybe this pod has something similar. Otherwise I'm clueless what we were seeing. Such eruptions of light/gas would be accompanied by shrapnel had the craft been struck by a weapon or had small explosions occurring on board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoofGardener Posted July 11, 2016 #40 Share Posted July 11, 2016 ROFL.... I go to all that trouble, and you quibble over one of the fins ? Clearely, you are one of natures born Art Critics <sulks> 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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