Well, if there is no proof of anything ...

[Harte]

On 7/10/2016 at 2:14 AM, Riaan said:

If that is the case, and we are paying for academic institutions to study fairy tales, I think the time has come to close down all departments of religious studies at universities and make those funds available areas where they can actually be used, most notably science (including medical studies) and engineering.

It would seem you are unaware that a great many universities study fairy tales link.

Harte

[Hanslune]

1 hour ago, Harte said:

It would seem you are unaware that a great many universities study fairy tales link.

Harte

Fairy tales are an important part of man's literature and as such of great cultural value. Plus you do need some fill for those level 300-400 cultural Anthropology courses!

[kmt_sesh]

6 hours ago, Hanslune said:

Fairy tales are an important part of man's literature and as such of great cultural value. Plus you do need some fill for those level 300-400 cultural Anthropology courses!

Hey, I took all of those anthro courses, and more. I don't remember any folk-tale fillers.

I feel cheated.

[+Hammerclaw]

On ‎7‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 8:39 AM, Riaan said:

Thank you! 'Sour grapes' would mean that I have admitted defeat, which is anything but the case!

I am actually quite serious about this issue, but this may apply more to my South African circumstances. Yonks ago when I was part of a Bible study group, we invited one of the more academically-inclined ministers in our church, the Dutch Reformed Church, to join our group (mainly engineers) to discuss what we perceived to be contradictions in the Bible. He was surprisingly frank in admitting that there were many issues in the Bible that the would not dare mention from the pulpit as it would 'confuse the flock'. In South Africa most of the faculties of theological studies are (perhaps were, in my youth) actually Christian based faculties to which aspiring church ministers would go for training. To 'believe' is therefore a prerequisite. However, if those who have studied the ancient scriptures themselves (i.e. the professors) no longer 'believe', what right do they have to continue preaching the Christian faith?

It has been commented that these studies should perhaps resort under mythology, but then again one has to be prepared to accept that there may be elements of truth in at least some myths, otherwise why study something you have upfront decided to be fantasy - 

The best place for religious studies may rightfully be merely as branch of history, but it should then be treated on an equal basis with other religions. In all fairness, this indeed appears to be the case at for instance Oxford university. South Africa's Stellenbosch University declares

Under and post graduate students from a wide spectrum of church denominations study at the Faculty of Theology. The faculty also has agreements with four churches – the Dutch Reformed Church in Southern Africa, the Uniting Reformed Church in Southern Africa, the Presbyterian Church in Southern Africa and the Anglican Church of Southern Africa. The faculty is committed to ecumenicity through particularity. Every particular denomination builds and enriches the inclusive and ecumenical character of the faculty. In 2012 the URC and DRC Seminarium was founded at the faculty for the ministerial formation of their candidates. In some research programmes colleagues from other religious traditions and secular traditions are also involved.

So, very much Christian based. However, I have heard that they have quite a large turnover in terms of students who become disillusioned with what they are being taught - do the teachers still believe what they are teaching?

This was the gist of the post - you may agree or disagree

 

They believe in the subject they are teaching but don't necessarily bend over backwards to accommodate it's theological nuances. It may be that which the portion of the student body you refer to find distressing. Religious studies in college are not Sunday School courses by any stretch of the imagination. Being about religion does not make them religious, nor does require it's teachers be believers.

[+Hammerclaw]

On ‎7‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 4:30 PM, kmt_sesh said:

I've probably been around here too long. I thought you had said "Atlantis was a city..."

Do I need a vacation?

No, just a few pints of German beer.

[Harte]

7 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

Hey, I took all of those anthro courses, and more. I don't remember any folk-tale fillers.

I feel cheated.

Want me to tell you about Pecos Bill?

Harte

[Hanslune]

10 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

Hey, I took all of those anthro courses, and more. I don't remember any folk-tale fillers.

I feel cheated.

You had to go to college between the late 1960's and the late 1970's when new ageism was in blossom.

[Hanslune]

9 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

They believe in the subject they are teaching but don't necessarily bend over backwards to accommodate it's theological nuances. It may be that which the portion of the student body you refer to find distressing. Religious studies in college are not Sunday School courses by any stretch of the imagination. Being about religion does not make them religious, nor does require it's teachers be believers.

Yes several times I took over courses in Islamic history or business courses dealing with Riba and other islamic practices and I am certainly no Muslim.

[kmt_sesh]

3 hours ago, Hanslune said:

You had to go to college between the late 1960's and the late 1970's when new ageism was in blossom.

Okay, I see. Well, I'm not thaaaaaaat old.

[Hanslune]

23 minutes ago, kmt_sesh said:

Okay, I see. Well, I'm not thaaaaaaat old.

Well we must blame your parents then and their parents for not producing progeny at the right times. I sense some slackness in your family blood line.

[Podo]

I took a class at the University of Victoria on the Slavic Fairy World and how it influenced Slavic culture in the early 20th century. That the fairy world is entirely fake is irrelevant because its "existence" profoundly affected the lives of those who believe in it. Folklore and fairy tales are well worth studying, for sure.

[Maureen_jacobs]

What I find interesting it that each religion has a similar story.  Even more telling that these events occurred, they crossed over into Literature.  Research Gllgamesh.  Interesting parallels cross the religious lines so my perception is there is some truth in it.  To believe blindly, while counterproductive in my case, gives one a sense of a hope.  People really can learn much from the past despite the religious lines.  

Religion may not exist for the OP, but it is his right to do so.  Just realize that one person with only be able to dissuade the unsure.

added

Folk lores, legends, fairy tales, are an insight to the minds and climate of a society.  It gives us insights to their growth and failures.  Studying it is also useful.  Teaching something doesn't validate it as truth, it teaches us new things.  It is our choice to believe. 

Edited July 17, 2016 by Maureen_jacobs
One more point

[skliss]

My parents were of the belief (taught to them by THEIR parents) that by learning about each other we move closer to understanding and peace. In fact, my mother who grew up Roman Catholic was allowed to attend the Synagogue with her Jewish best friend and the Greek Orthodox church with her other best friend. She said as a child she was so sad that these two were not allowed to play with each other while she was allowed to play with both. My siblings and I were allowed to attend masses and the church youth groups of our friends as long as we also attended our own. As a result I learned a lot about other religions.

It's the misunderstandings, lies and misperceptions that make people fear what others believe.

[SSilhouette]

On 7/10/2016 at 2:19 AM, Lord Fedorable said:

Given events in Riaan's other thread, I think this is a degree of sour grapes from someone who instead of finding a fertile audience for her ideas, instead found ornery old cusses who question everything and are prone to knowing stuff.

Wrong.  The OP isn't me.  He does make good points though. 

[kmt_sesh]

He wasn't referring to you, SS. The OP is Riaan.

[Harte]

15 hours ago, SSilhouette said:

Wrong.  The OP isn't me.  He does make good points though. 

Everything isn't about you, SS.

Harte

ETA: Back to folklore, anyone heard of Mike Fink?

Quote

Im a Salt River Roarer! Im a ring-tailed squealer! I'm a reg'lar screamer from the ol' Massassip'! WHOOP! I'm the very infant that refused his milk before its eyes were open, and called out for a bottle of old Rye! I love the women an' I'm chockful o' fight! I'm half wild horse and half cockeyed-alligator and the rest o' me is crooked snags an' red hot snappin' turtle. I can hit like fourth-proof lightnin' an' every lick I make in the woods lets in an acre o' sunshine. I can out-run, out-jump, out-shoot, out-brag, out-drink, an' out fight, rough-an'-tumble, no holts barred, ary man on both sides the river from Pittsburg to New Orleans an' back again to St. Louiee. Come on, you flatters, you bargers, you milk-white mechanics, an' see how tough I am to chaw! I ain't had a fight for two days an' I'm spilein' for exercise. c***-a-doodle-doo!

link

And Davy Crockett, known to be able to grin a coon out of a tree, once spent the night grinnin' and grinnin' at a coon but the coon wouldn't budge. At dawn, he saw he'd been grinnin' at a knot in the tree. Upon closer inspection, he saw that his grins had peeled the bark back from around the knot.

Harte

Edited July 27, 2016 by Harte
"Im a Salt River Roarer! Im a ring-tailed squealer! I'm a reg'lar screamer from the ol' Massassip'! WHOOP! I'm the very infant that refused his milk before its eyes were open, and called out for a bottle of old Rye!

[Zalmoxis]

Truth is there is no way to verify everything without direct physical proof. There are things written in there of historical importance and great influence. However you look at it you can't deny it so you gotta accept it and then maybe it will demystify itself to you. That is what I think.

[Atheist Pope]

I agree with OP. The Abrahamic religions were clearly created by men to control men; there was no divine intervention whatsoever. In the future, humans will look back at the regressive, backwards zealots (mostly brainwashed Islamists at this precise time) killing in the name of a fictional God and perceive all religions for the cancer they are. I've never been able to understand said devout mindset -- how can they not question their holy books, dogma, traditions etc... when those same religious people view ancient Greek, Norse, Mayan and Egyptian Gods as nothing but outdated myths?

Much more public money should be set aside for major scientific projects and it could be funded by taxing religious institutions which shouldn't get a free pass anymore. To me, mainstream religions are just cults on steroids and should be treated as such. Bunch of mindless sheep going along with ridiculous fables to the detriment of society. If any of those so-called 'prophets' and 'saints' existed today, they'd be locked up in a mental asylum for hearing voices and spreading the word of God. It amazes me in the 21st century we're still a civilisation where most people believe 2000-year-old illiterate street dwellers are bastions of cosmic wisdom.

[Hanslune]

7 hours ago, Atheist Pope said:

I agree with OP. The Abrahamic religions were clearly created by men to control men; there was no divine intervention whatsoever. In the future, humans will look back at the regressive, backwards zealots (mostly brainwashed Islamists at this precise time) killing in the name of a fictional God and perceive all religions for the cancer they are. I've never been able to understand said devout mindset -- how can they not question their holy books, dogma, traditions etc... when those same religious people view ancient Greek, Norse, Mayan and Egyptian Gods as nothing but outdated myths?

Much more public money should be set aside for major scientific projects and it could be funded by taxing religious institutions which shouldn't get a free pass anymore. To me, mainstream religions are just cults on steroids and should be treated as such. Bunch of mindless sheep going along with ridiculous fables to the detriment of society. If any of those so-called 'prophets' and 'saints' existed today, they'd be locked up in a mental asylum for hearing voices and spreading the word of God. It amazes me in the 21st century we're still a civilisation where most people believe 2000-year-old illiterate street dwellers are bastions of cosmic wisdom.

God will get you for this. Just kidding! Full agreement if stated somewhat harshly.

[Harte]

18 hours ago, Atheist Pope said:

I agree with OP. The Abrahamic religions were clearly created by men to control men; there was no divine intervention whatsoever. In the future, humans will look back at the regressive, backwards zealots (mostly brainwashed Islamists at this precise time) killing in the name of a fictional God and perceive all religions for the cancer they are.

Don't you watch South Park?

We'd just kill each other over whose science was better instead of whose god was better.

Harte

[back to earth]

I can believe that ... I can also believe the opposite - that  people can sometimes come together and live in  peace, without bothering if one science or even one religion is better than the other. It has happened before with religion and still does, to an extent, in some places. If mixed religions can abide peaceably together surely science can ?  The answer, though, to how this is achieved, isnt in any hard science or  religion, as  other times and places that had that mix of religions in their societies  tore each other to pieces,  under the same principles. 

So what is it that causes this cohesion ?   I think its something that a lot more investigation , resources and experimentation  warrants .

[kmt_sesh]

22 hours ago, Atheist Pope said:

I agree with OP. The Abrahamic religions were clearly created by men to control men; there was no divine intervention whatsoever. In the future, humans will look back at the regressive, backwards zealots (mostly brainwashed Islamists at this precise time) killing in the name of a fictional God and perceive all religions for the cancer they are. I've never been able to understand said devout mindset -- how can they not question their holy books, dogma, traditions etc... when those same religious people view ancient Greek, Norse, Mayan and Egyptian Gods as nothing but outdated myths?

Much more public money should be set aside for major scientific projects and it could be funded by taxing religious institutions which shouldn't get a free pass anymore. To me, mainstream religions are just cults on steroids and should be treated as such. Bunch of mindless sheep going along with ridiculous fables to the detriment of society. If any of those so-called 'prophets' and 'saints' existed today, they'd be locked up in a mental asylum for hearing voices and spreading the word of God. It amazes me in the 21st century we're still a civilisation where most people believe 2000-year-old illiterate street dwellers are bastions of cosmic wisdom.

Why are atheists so angry all the time?

[Hanslune]

1 minute ago, kmt_sesh said:

Why are atheists so angry all the time?

Who me? Just amused. However I have noted what you mentioned but I have also seen the same 'anger' in religious people who cannot understand why someone doesn't believe in God.

[kmt_sesh]

Just now, Hanslune said:

Who me? Just amused. However I have noted what you mentioned but I have also seen the same 'anger' in religious people who cannot understand why someone doesn't believe in God.

Oh, yes, it goes both ways. No doubt about that. UM just seems to attract a lot of self-described atheists who seem to delight in denigrating the beliefs of the majority of mankind. One can formulate a position or argument without resorting to such attitude.

But no, my comment wasn't aimed at you.

[Hanslune]

10 hours ago, kmt_sesh said:

But no, my comment wasn't aimed at you.

Yes I know but I was answering for Atheists everywhere.