Dallas Police - First Use of a Robotic Bomb

[Raptor Witness]

In An Apparent First, Police Used A Robot To Kill - NPR July 8, 2016

After sniper fire struck 12 police officers at a rally in downtown Dallas, killing five, police cornered a single suspect in a parking garage. After a prolonged exchange of gunfire and a five-hour-long standoff, police made what experts say was an unprecedented decision: to send in a police robot, jury-rigged with a bomb.

"We saw no other option but to use our bomb robot and place a device on its extension for it to detonate where the suspect was," Dallas Police Chief David Brown told a news conference Friday. "Other options would have exposed our officers to grave danger. The suspect is deceased as a result of detonating the bomb."

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My first reaction to this story was negative. It seemed like an unprecedented way to kill a civilian, and a needless escalation of the violence.

On second thought, if it's true that the gunman claimed to have made bombs and planted them all over the place, then the Dallas Police Chief may of felt this was the only way to take out the gunman, safely, in case he was wired with an explosive.

The problem with this, is, we know the police often lie to justify the use of deadly force, so it's not a far stretch that they might lie to get away with using a bomb to kill someone. However, the subsequent finding of bomb making materials in the shooter's home, may mean the story we're hearing checks out. Although I wouldn't put it past them to plant the bomb making materials, also. If true, and bomb making materials were found, coupled with other supporting evidence, then I feel the police may have hoped their detonation would also detonate any devices he had on him, at a safe distance.

Will this set a new precedent for the police use of deadly force in the United States? I believe that it could, and this might be more dangerous than the risk of sending in, well armed, and protected SWAT in these situations.

Why not use a laser guided weapon, attached to a jet fighter? You can be sure if they had been offered that option, they would of taken it.

I believe that it's also possible the Dallas police wanted to send a message, "if your escalate, we're going to escalate." If true, then this bombing only serves to verify the problem of the police escalating the use of deadly force, in general, against a civilian population.

I think they could have deescalated the use of deadly force and just take the risk they are paid to take, which is part of the problem with the new Apartheid. The police aren't willing to risk their lives, to do the job they were hired to do, in effect defrauding the citizenry.

[Space Commander Travis]

46 minutes ago, Raptor Witness said:

In An Apparent First, Police Used A Robot To Kill - NPR July 8, 2016

 

My first reaction to this story was negative. It seemed like an unprecedented way to kill a civilian, and a needless escalation of the violence.

On second thought, if it's true that the gunman claimed to have made bombs and planted them all over the place, then the Dallas Police Chief may of felt this was the only way to take out the gunman, safely, in case he was wired with an explosive.

 

I'm really not sure of the logic behind that. (Not your reasoning, theirs.) If he had set up hidden bombs all over the place, surely it'd be much more useful to try to find out from him where they might be? it seems rather like when they took out O b L, or indeed any of the culprits behind any of these recent mass shootings; they're always either killed or kill themselves, which does seem rather convenient since we always have to accept the Authorities' version of events, don't we, despite whatever useful intelligence it might be possible to obtain from them ... 

[+and-then]

After FIVE of their brother officers had been gunned down, I'd say they'd taken enough risks.  Obviously your agenda has nothing to do with the good of the public.  Use of the word Apartheid is ridiculous and offensive but please feel free to show your colors.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

1 hour ago, Raptor Witness said:

In An Apparent First, Police Used A Robot To Kill - NPR July 8, 2016

After sniper fire struck 12 police officers at a rally in downtown Dallas, killing five, police cornered a single suspect in a parking garage. After a prolonged exchange of gunfire and a five-hour-long standoff, police made what experts say was an unprecedented decision: to send in a police robot, jury-rigged with a bomb.

"We saw no other option but to use our bomb robot and place a device on its extension for it to detonate where the suspect was," Dallas Police Chief David Brown told a news conference Friday. "Other options would have exposed our officers to grave danger. The suspect is deceased as a result of detonating the bomb."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My first reaction to this story was negative. It seemed like an unprecedented way to kill a civilian, and a needless escalation of the violence.

On second thought, if it's true that the gunman claimed to have made bombs and planted them all over the place, then the Dallas Police Chief may of felt this was the only way to take out the gunman, safely, in case he was wired with an explosive.

The problem with this, is, we know the police often lie to justify the use of deadly force, so it's not a far stretch that they might lie to get away with using a bomb to kill someone. However, the subsequent finding of bomb making materials in the shooter's home, may mean the story we're hearing checks out. Although I wouldn't put it past them to plant the bomb making materials, also. If true, and bomb making materials were found, coupled with other supporting evidence, then I feel the police may have hoped their detonation would also detonate any devices he had on him, at a safe distance.

Will this set a new precedent for the police use of deadly force in the United States? I believe that it could, and this might be more dangerous than the risk of sending in, well armed, and protected SWAT in these situations.

Why not use a laser guided weapon, attached to a jet fighter? You can be sure if they had been offered that option, they would of taken it.

I believe that it's also possible the Dallas police wanted to send a message, "if your escalate, we're going to escalate." If true, then this bombing only serves to verify the problem of the police escalating the use of deadly force, in general, against a civilian population.

I think they could have deescalated the use of deadly force and just take the risk they are paid to take, which is part of the problem with the new Apartheid. The police aren't willing to risk their lives, to do the job they were hired to do, in effect defrauding the citizenry.

since when was it a police officers job to be shot at?

[Space Commander Travis]

32 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

since when was it a police officers job to be shot at?

Well, I thought (and I'm sure they'd agree) that it is, potentially, something that comes with the job.

[SHaYap]

While I agree that this was a set of extraordinary circumstance the automated executioner device does set a dangerous and disturbing precedent of use against 'civilians' ...

~

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

7 minutes ago, Otto von Pickelhaube said:

Well, I thought (and I'm sure they'd agree) that it is, potentially, something that comes with the job.

b******s. 

[Thanato]

Two options. Put more Human life in danger to kill him. Or do not put human life in danger to kill him.

though it sets a precedent, it is during an exrodinary situation. 

[Phaeton80]

Further militarisation of the police force.. Remember, these people are being trained by Israeli military, increasingly being equipped with military hardware, increasingly being trained to regard those they were sworn to protect as their enemies.

[Gromdor]

We have been using drones to kill terrorists for years.  To see drones being used to kill criminals in not a totally unexpected.

[Raptor Witness]

9 hours ago, and then said:

After FIVE of their brother officers had been gunned down, I'd say they'd taken enough risks.  Obviously your agenda has nothing to do with the good of the public.  Use of the word Apartheid is ridiculous and offensive but please feel free to show your colors.

My only "agenda" is to speak truth to power. 

I am sympathetic, because I can see and hear the abuse of power, and one of those abuses is the use of military style weaponry on a civilian population. That's civil war in my book.

If bombs are the next step in the escalation of this violence, I can tell you, as a chemistry major, that a grade schooler can make a sizable bomb with little effort and with even greater safety. I've always been inherently afraid of explosives, but I know how easy it is.

Escalating to bombs, is the wrong way to go with this. Unless of course, the police really want a war with part of the civilian population.

I think they made the wrong call using a bomb, and they have garnered far less sympathy from me, as a result.

 

 

Edited July 10, 2016 by Raptor Witness

[White Unicorn]

7 hours ago, Thanato said:

Two options. Put more Human life in danger to kill him. Or do not put human life in danger to kill him.

though it sets a precedent, it is during an exrodinary situation. 

I think this was a situation of another home grown terrorist and he was treated as such. 

He went to place of a protest and what does some of the media do, they said he was part of their protest! They love to focus on the racist part. Let's grow more racial divisions and unrest. Let's make it breaking news all week and grow more tension instead of uniting of all Americans against injustice that  exists.

All racial groups experience racism. It doesn't  matter is your black, Latino, Indian, Escimo, Hawaiian, white etc.

Racism includes your religion although we are supposed to have freedom of religion. This guy actually hated police and white people. He didn't care who he attacked or whether they were a good cop or not. It's a hate  crime toward a vocation! If he wasn't sick he could have become a vigilante to known bad cops. He was just another sick terrorist from the injustices he percieved around him, doesn't matter really if he was black or white he went over the edge of sanity.

Protests and freedom of speech is good. Media brings more sensationalism of any violence and hate crimes.

Bringing in a robot or drone seemed like a good decision to prevent more people becoming his victim.

 

[Raptor Witness]

The Dallas Police Chief was interviewed today by Jake Tapper on CNN, and you could tell he was uncomfortable with the questions his bomb decision raised, but not the decision itself.
 I find this amazing, given his position of authority. When Tapper asked him, "couldn't you have used some sort of gas used in riot control," the chief didn't have an answer. So who will make him answer that question?

This is so typical of what we see the police doing nationwide. They don't care what effect their actions have, or could have, when they're threatened. Setting a bad precedent, or what effect this might have on how the public views their profession doesn't come into the equation. They don't care about the end result of their actions, as long as they reach their lethal end result.

One of the dangers looming, is this man is already viewed as a hero to many, and he will be an even bigger hero, in light of how he was killed, which looked cowardly by comparison to how we see most of these suspects taken down. He might of shot himself, given the chance, which would have made the shooter the coward.

Tapper is right, why not gas the guy and see if he'll shoot himself, first? The argument that the shooter was hidden, so well, they couldn't get to him, is nonsense. They wanted to send a message, and they did.

What the Manson family, and Dylann Storm Roof failed to do, has been accomplished by two African American men on opposite sides of the new civil war.

 

Edited July 10, 2016 by Raptor Witness

[Raptor Witness]

Here is what a pound of C4 reportedly does. 

I'll bet Micah Johnson thought it was the 4th of July.

 

[DarkHunter]

My only real issue is that the police force used a rather expensive bomb disposal robot to kill the shooter instead of a much cheaper alternative.  Couldn't they of just stuck the c4 on some remote controlled toy trucks with a go pro strapped to it, would be a little ad hoc but would only of been a fraction of the price of the robot they used.

One argument I never quite understood is this whole militarization of the police force and why now it is suddenly a concern.  It seems from a purely historical view that the police have always been roughly as well armed as the military until fairly recently.  Unless I am horribly mistaken, which I don't believe I am, from colonial times up to around the early 1900's that the police, military, and civilians all used the same weapons more or less.  That it wasn't really till the use of tanks and anti tank weapons that the military started to be drastically more heavily armed then either the police or civilians.  Since for most of American history with civilians, military, and police all being roughly armed the same I am failing to see why the police being roughly as equivalently armed is now a concern.

As for the video you posted raptor witness about a pound of C4 it is pretty heavily misleading.  The footage comes from a thermal imaging camera, which will make the explosion look much larger and damaging then it actually is and it stops before any clear damage can be seen from the detonation.  To put some perspective on the strength, the mk3a2 grenade uses concussion force to kill, it has a casualty radius of about 2 meters, and is filled with 8 oz of TNT.  C4 is approximately 1.2 times stronger then TNT and since they used a pound it was roughly equivalent to using 2 hand grenades to kill the shooter.

[RoofGardener]

I guess the police must have considered the possibility that the shooter had the ability to remote-detonate the bombs he claimed to have scattered around the city. (by mobile phone, or whatever). Accordingly, if he refused to back down, he had to be "neutralised" before he could trigger such devices.

It turned out that there WHERE no bombs, but the Police where in no position to know that at the time.

[Myles]

I have to say, I thought blowing him up was pretty cool. 

 

[Sweetpumper]

I wish we could see pics of what was left of him spattered on the walls.

[Sweetpumper]

Cool. There are pics.

[Gromdor]

Supposedly he wrote RB on the wall in his own blood before he died. 

[Sweetpumper]

"Really Bleeding".

[Myles]

"Robot Bomb"

 

[+and-then]

1 hour ago, Sweetpumper said:

I wish we could see pics of what was left of him spattered on the walls.

If that vid was accurate, I'd say Dallas saved on the cost of cremation as well.

[Raptor Witness]

2 hours ago, Gromdor said:

Supposedly he wrote RB on the wall in his own blood before he died. 

"RB"= Real Blood?

[Raptor Witness]

3 hours ago, Sweetpumper said:

"Really Bleeding".

I just saw your idea, after mine.

Very close to my thoughts...

I thought the police chief of Dallas came off very well today in his press conference.

He's amazing in front of the camera, and clearly charismatic.

One piece of equipment that I would propose, be added for these officers, would be live feed cameras. We have the technology for it, and the cost shouldn't be that much higher than cameras that only record. 

That's one piece of military equipment that they should have.

What this might allow, is for that live feed to be monitored by a supervisor at the station, who can then help de-escalate these edgy situations, when it's obvious things are going bad. We need more direct supervision of these interactions with the citizens, I think that's obvious.

Otherwise, I really think we're headed for another civil war, with a call for black militias to arrive at the scene of these encounters. That might be the next logical leap here. A couple of hundred black militia men arriving on the scene of a police interaction, I think would be allowable under the Constitution, at this point. That would force either an escalation or de-escalation, and I suspect a de-escalation would prevail. Even if the militia were only armed with cameras.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Raptor Witness