Has America lost the moral highground?

[Farmer77]

 Egypt — A nation known for brutality against civilians has just slammed the United States for hypocrisy following two police fatal shootings last week in Minnesota and Louisiana — as Egyptian lawmakers phrased it, the U.S. has “an alleged respect for human rights.” http://theantimedia.org/egypt-to-the-us-dont-tell-us-not-to-kill-our-own-people-when-your-own-cops-do-it/ 

In what could hardly be called a surprise, the UN Human Rights Council chastised the USover its epidemic of police violence, discrimination, needless killings, and general neglect, following through with recommendations made in its first review in 2010. http://www.mintpressnews.com/117-countries-slam-american-police-brutality-at-un-human-rights-council/205588/ 

Statement to the media by the United Nations’ Working Group of Experts on People of African Descent, on the conclusion of its official visit to USA, 19-29  January 2016 http://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=17000&LangID=E 

The numbers and the faces  

The government of the Bahamas is urging its citizens to be careful when traveling to U.S cities where there have been incidents of police shooting blacks. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/07/09/citing-racial-tensions-bahamas-issues-travel-advisory-us/86894274/

While we Americans have our own stances on our current situation we do not live in a bubble. Our own civil strife combined with our interventionist policies have fundamentally altered the way many view this nation. Has America lost the moral high ground on human rights? If so where does that leave us as a nation? 

[freetoroam]

6 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

The government of the Bahamas is urging its citizens to be careful when traveling to U.S cities where there have been incidents of police shooting blacks

What a load of bull! are they for real? Maybe if they said " to any criminal intending to shoot at a load of police officers, or commit a sexual offence, or a bank robbery, be careful because you may get shot" then I could understand....but they did not.

As for the human rights brigade, why can they not show as much sympathy to the criminals victims as they do to the criminals themselves?

[Dark_Grey]

3 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

[...]
Has America lost the moral high ground on human rights? If so where does that leave us as a nation? 

Yes. But it's a complicated question to answer as there aren't really any morally pure nations, just varying shades of gray. For example, while the Nazis were gassing Jews, we were running a "sterilization" program on the disabled.

Quote

The United States was the first country to concertedly undertake compulsory sterilization programs for the purpose of eugenics.^[42] The heads of the program were avid believers in eugenics and frequently argued for their program. It was shut down due to ethical problems. The principal targets of the American program were the intellectually disabled and the mentally ill, but also targeted under many state laws were the deaf, the blind, people with epilepsy, and the physically deformed.

The Tuskegee experiments, interment camps, etc etc. Again, just shades of gray. Beyond all that, can any nation really claim the moral high ground while simultaneously enforcing a drug policy as brutal as ours?

[Farmer77]

Just now, freetoroam said:

What a load of bull! are they for real? Maybe if they said " to any criminal intending to shoot at a load of police officers, or commit a sexual offence, or a bank robbery, be careful because you may get shot" then I could understand....but they did not.

As for the human rights brigade, why can they not show as much sympathy to the criminals victims as they do to the criminals themselves?

Well we know where you stand on the issue now dont we? LOL ....Im on the other side, Tyranny is Tyranny whether brought by boys in blue or boys in camouflage and I would argue that being suspected of a crime, or even being a criminal does not equate a death warrant in America..or at least isnt supposed to . 

Regardless, the question was about how we're viewed globally and how we move forward in that light. 

[freetoroam]

25 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

 even being a criminal does not equate a death warrant in America..or at least isnt supposed to . 

 

There are crimes which will certainly give some criminals the electric chair, and there are some criminals who will get shot before they get that far......so yes, being a criminal in some circumstances does equate to a death warrant  =  and it is the criminal who has put that "sign" round their own necks. 

I am out on showing any sympathy for a criminal (especially a sex offender) who has been shot while doing something they should not have been = carrying a gun without a licence falls with in that too.

AND NO I do not condone cops willy nilly killing innocent people or people who were not a threat and could have been arrested without the cops lives being put at risk of getting shot themselves.

Edited July 13, 2016 by freetoroam

[aztek]

35 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

What a load of bull!

tell that to that Indianan dude that got spinal injury from a cop for absolutely no reason.

what is worst is that judge cleared him and blamed the Indian guy. police is just 1 part of the problem

Edited July 13, 2016 by aztek

[Farmer77]

Just now, freetoroam said:

There are crimes which will certainly give some criminals the electric chair, and there are some criminals who will get shot before they get that far. 

I am out on showing any sympathy for a criminal (especially a sex offender) who has been shot while doing something they should not have been = carrying a gun without a licence falls with in that too.

AND NO I do not condone cops willy nilly killing innocent people or people who were not a threat and could have been arrested without the cops lives being put at risk of getting shot themselves.

The problem is the definition of innocent can and does shift from age to age and location to location. Jews were criminalized once , do you not sympathize with them?   Cops should never be killing anyone unless they can prove their lives were in danger NOT that they "felt" they were in danger nor that they "acted within policy". 

Our laws have been written for profit and hate, case in point being the "war on drugs" which we now know was enacted for racist and political goals, even good guys who become police cannot overcome the systemic shortcomings in our legal system which lead to unnecessary regulation, interactions and violence. 

[freetoroam]

Just now, aztek said:

tel that to an Indianan dude that got spinal injury from a cop for absolutely no reason.

See me above post. Absolutely no way do I condone innocent people being shot for no reason, but to warn a whole country that they could get shot for just visiting a country because of their colour is too much!! That just creates hates.

[aztek]

3 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

See me above post. Absolutely no way do I condone innocent people being shot for no reason, but to warn a whole country that they could get shot for just visiting a country because of their colour is too much!! 

that is not too much, it is better be safe than sorry thing, same principle cops use when are "afraid for their lives" .

it is the least what Bahamas gvmnt can do. i think every nation gvmnt should issue such warning, regardless of race

Edited July 13, 2016 by aztek

[Gromdor]

It's not so much us losing the high ground, than it is us surrendering it.  We have a choice on whether we want to act like animals and thugs.  Unfortunately, more and more of the populace is becoming increasingly frightened and willing to do increasingly unconstitutional and barbaric things.  (I.E. let's kill terrorist's families, let's waterboard and more, it's okay for cops to shoot people who don't obey, etc. etc.)

Edited July 13, 2016 by Gromdor
grammar

[freetoroam]

5 minutes ago, aztek said:

that is not too much, it is better be safe than sorry thing, same principle cops use when are "afraid for their lives" .

it is the least what Bahamas gvmnt can do. i think every nation gvmnt should issue such warning, regardless of race

Such warnings should be issued for other continents too. Let me try and think....hmmm...how about  Africa and Asia?  America still does not come close to these>>>

 

If tomorrow morning Africa and the Middle East simply vanished, you have to wonder what would happen to the State Department functionaries who write the travel warnings at travel.state.gov. The poor people would have little to do all day. Of the 28 travel warnings issued in May, 12 were for African nations and 7 were for countries in the Middle East.

http://www.travelandleisure.com/slideshows/the-worlds-most-dangerous-countries

 

 

[freetoroam]

7 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

it's okay for cops to shoot people who don't obey,

It is never okay to shoot people who don`t obey, but if they are armed and a threat = then yes it is. 

Edited July 13, 2016 by freetoroam

[Gromdor]

7 minutes ago, freetoroam said:

It is never okay to shoot people who don`t obey, but if they are armed and a threat = then yes it is. 

Had an argument last Sunday with a guy who thought it should be. 

[Hyades]

Find interesting information on the web, these authors say that America lost moral highground.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/georges-ugeux/wake-up-america-we-are-lo_b_2308164.html

https://www.quora.com/United-States-of-America-in-2015-Why-are-Americans-losing-moral-values

 

[Myles]

Really, the Bahamas is issuing the warning?   If you ever go there, be sure to stay in the tourist areas.   Never alone.   Not as bad as Jamaica, but pretty bad. 

[Myles]

Hmmm, Egypt is 112th in the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Giving_Index

 

I'd say the USA isn't near the bottom for being immoral.

[Farmer77]

10 minutes ago, Myles said:

Really, the Bahamas is issuing the warning?   If you ever go there, be sure to stay in the tourist areas.   Never alone.   Not as bad as Jamaica, but pretty bad. 

Yeah this whole part of the world is pretty bad but they're not used to their cops needlessly murdering them so the warning was probably fitting.

6 minutes ago, Myles said:

Hmmm, Egypt is 112th in the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Giving_Index

 

I'd say the USA isn't near the bottom for being immoral.

So are you saying  that donating money makes up for human rights abuses? 

[Myles]

14 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

 

So are you saying  that donating money makes up for human rights abuses? 

I think it plays a part.  

[+Hammerclaw]

America never had the moral high ground. America is treated like some sort of abstract Ideal that the world puts on a pedestal it keeps falling off of.

[Paranormal Panther]

This is lazy thinking on the part of people who think that their crap doesn't stink. It's based on generalities and memes. It's that kind of thinking that's responsible for the current situation. Individuals jump to conclusions when they don't know the facts of a specific case. One side reflexively supports minorities while one side reflexively supports police. They don't even care about facts and truth. Their prejudice, not the evidence in an *individual* case, takes precedence. We will remain lost until all Americans embrace the concept of independent thinking.

[Thanato]

When compared to Egypt no. 

[Yamato]

7 hours ago, Paranormal Panther said:

This is lazy thinking on the part of people who think that their crap doesn't stink. It's based on generalities and memes.

And policies of sticking our noses in other peoples' business as if we know better what's right for them.   

Quote

It's that kind of thinking that's responsible for the current situation.

Thinking that we're exceptional.   Is there any morality in that?

If the Giving Index above is accurate, then let the American people handle it.   If something thousands of miles away is so important to you, pay for it yourself.    Don't instead play the partisan political game of ostracizing the President for being "indecisive" or "weak".   That's why the next President is always the worst President.   These expectations of the White House that we collectively have are nuts.

[Phaeton80]

I would say the image of moral highground has become untenable. The actual position was lost some time ago.. Camouflaging inherently unethical behaviour under the guise of 'serving the greater good' can only go so far. Propaganda, can only go so far.

I'd also say the police shootings are a mere fraction of the issue, where military actions / foreign policy takes the absolute cake. Honestly, I was always infatuated with the States, its people, its nature. Now, I think its a dangerous emperialistic nation thats going off the deep end in a hurry.. So much so that I have come to fear her, like a deranged individual you dont know what to expect from.. A Hero gone Bad. More on topic; if I would visit the US I'd indeed be more worried about being shot by police for doing something 'unexpected', than being shot by any random criminal. Not responding to an officer's orders (like when the officer is behind you ordering to stop, and you are wearing headphones moving away from him) is enough to get you killed. Crazy sh*

Edited July 15, 2016 by Phaeton80

[Paranormal Panther]

15 hours ago, Yamato said:

And policies of sticking our noses in other peoples' business as if we know better what's right for them.   

Thinking that we're exceptional.   Is there any morality in that?

If the Giving Index above is accurate, then let the American people handle it.   If something thousands of miles away is so important to you, pay for it yourself.    Don't instead play the partisan political game of ostracizing the President for being "indecisive" or "weak".   That's why the next President is always the worst President.   These expectations of the White House that we collectively have are nuts.

I'm sorry. You must have me confused with one of the members who favors interventionism.

[Paranormal Panther]

13 hours ago, Phaeton80 said:

More on topic; if I would visit the US I'd indeed be more worried about being shot by police for doing something 'unexpected', than being shot by any random criminal. Not responding to an officer's orders (like when the officer is behind you ordering to stop, and you are wearing headphones moving away from him) is enough to get you killed. Crazy sh*

Really? Let's test that one. Come to my house if you visit my country, and I'll drop you off in the bad section of town where crime and drugs are rampant. Stroll the mean streets for a couple hours. Feel free to post about your experience.