Dirty Posted July 20, 2016 #1 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Mankind will never reach the next stage of evolution until we realize that science and spiritualism , not religion, are the same. I believe science will eventually prove that a god does exist. not the god we all think of but something that can only be scientifically explained as god 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likely Guy Posted July 20, 2016 #2 Share Posted July 20, 2016 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Dirty said: Mankind will never reach the next stage of evolution until we realize that science and spiritualism , not religion, are the same. I believe science will eventually prove that a god does exist. not the god we all think of but something that can only be scientifically explained as god You really need a new username, welcome to UM. I'd disagree as Science and Spiritualism are not the same, nor even related. God may, one day, be proved to exist by science, or not. That will never change my life's outlook. We exist, we we're created, therefore there was a creator. But, not so fast. Maybe we we're created by 'happenstance'. Maybe life here was an accident, and nothing more. Since neither can ever be successfully proven, I don't care, nor lose any sleep over it.. Edit: Maybe 'happenstance' is another name for God? Maybe there is no other life in the Universe and we are all that ever was? We're just one shot out of 100's of trillions of galaxies that produced life? Therefore: Creation may not need a creator, just a happenstance. The rarest of rare circumstances. Edited July 20, 2016 by Likely Guy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horta Posted July 20, 2016 #3 Share Posted July 20, 2016 1 hour ago, Dirty said: Mankind will never reach the next stage of evolution until we realize that science and spiritualism , not religion, are the same. I believe science will eventually prove that a god does exist. not the god we all think of but something that can only be scientifically explained as god Mankind will definitely reach the next stage of "evolution", unless we become extinct (which also seems assured at some stage). The process of evolution hasn't stopped. Though I guess you mean that in the more poetic sense? The term spiritualism seems rather vague in many ways, and anyway isn't this what is underlying religion? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted July 20, 2016 #4 Share Posted July 20, 2016 1 hour ago, Dirty said: Mankind will never reach the next stage of evolution until we realize that science and spiritualism , not religion, are the same. I believe science will eventually prove that a god does exist. not the god we all think of but something that can only be scientifically explained as god So you can use the scientific method to study spiritualism? 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted July 20, 2016 #5 Share Posted July 20, 2016 1 hour ago, Dirty said: Mankind will never reach the next stage of evolution What are you proposing that is? We evolve through natural selection to allow the best suited to an environment to flourish, we now control our environment, we do not have to adapt to it, we adapt it to suit us. Perhaps "development" is the word you seek here? 1 hour ago, Dirty said: until we realize that science and spiritualism , not religion, are the same. No, not the same nothing alike, even spiritualism is different from person to person, atheists and religious people alike have their own take on their personal sense of "spirituality: But that means different things to different people, so it cannot possibly be "the same" when by itself it is not "the same" 1 hour ago, Dirty said: I believe science will eventually prove that a god does exist. not the god we all think of but something that can only be scientifically explained as god Evidence is leading the way in the very opposite direction, and has been for some time now, and is only gaining speed. I have no idea why you would think everything we have come to understand would be wrong, and entirely re-written. It would be a great discovery, but it seems even less likely than Unicorns, or God himself. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted July 20, 2016 #6 Share Posted July 20, 2016 1 hour ago, Likely Guy said: Since neither can ever be successfully proven, I don't care, nor lose any sleep over it.. Why do you think that things like "Abiogenesis" or "The Big Bang Theory" cannot possibly ever be proven by scientific enquiry? We are quite a way along those tracks already. Personally, I have much more faith in the data, and our direction. I expect at least one, if not both, to be resolved within my lifetime. I would bet Peter Higgs could not put a date on when his ideas would be firmed by science, or Darwin for that matter. I just cannot see why it is not possible. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted July 20, 2016 #7 Share Posted July 20, 2016 I'd say psychology and spirituality are related more than spirituality and science. As spiritual beliefs are often a coping mechanism for life. But that's just my take. After all 'god' is someone's therapist, best friend, and life couch, if that's what they want to belief. An imaginary being that they can 'cast all worries on'. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted July 20, 2016 #8 Share Posted July 20, 2016 ~ ~ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only_ Posted July 20, 2016 #9 Share Posted July 20, 2016 (edited) 13 hours ago, Rlyeh said: So you can use the scientific method to study spiritualism? Of course. Many scientists have studied mediums and spiritualist manifestations during the Victorian era. Edited July 20, 2016 by TruthSeeker_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted July 20, 2016 #10 Share Posted July 20, 2016 3 minutes ago, TruthSeeker_ said: Of course. Many scientists have studied mediums and spiritualist manifestations in the 1800's. The sheer amount of fakery was rampant too. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only_ Posted July 20, 2016 #11 Share Posted July 20, 2016 1 minute ago, XenoFish said: The sheer amount of fakery was rampant too. Indeed. But to say that spiritualism cannot be studied scientifically is, in my opinion, a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted July 20, 2016 #12 Share Posted July 20, 2016 It would be more of a psychological study than that of a strict scientific study. While there are pro's and con's of belief. http://www.livescience.com/52197-religion-mental-health-brain.html Which is largely based on your perspective of what kind of god it is. http://www.psychologicalscience.org/index.php/news/releases/are-religious-people-better-adjusted-psychologically.html Then again it also depends on where you live. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nuclear Wessel Posted July 20, 2016 #13 Share Posted July 20, 2016 Why do you think science would progress to a point where the only explanation for something was "god"? Also, what do you mean by "god"? How can I possibly agree/disagree with you if I don't even know what your definition of "god" is? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only_ Posted July 20, 2016 #14 Share Posted July 20, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Nuclear Wessel said: Why do you think science would progress to a point where the only explanation for something was "god"? Also, what do you mean by "god"? How can I possibly agree/disagree with you if I don't even know what your definition of "god" is? I'm quite sure he's refering to God as a 'Computer Programmer' whom science might be able to prove the existence. I mean if the Universe is designed than we'll surely prove that beyond doubt at some point or another. We would then be able to understand the Mind of God. As physicist Paul Davies mentions: "the existence of mind in some organism on some planet in the universe is surely a fact of fundamental significance. Through conscious beings the universe has generated self-awareness. This can be no trivial detail, no minor byproduct of mindless, purposeless forces. We are truly meant to be here." Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mind_of_God Edited July 20, 2016 by TruthSeeker_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted July 20, 2016 #15 Share Posted July 20, 2016 12 hours ago, third_eye said: ~ ~ 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psyche101 Posted July 20, 2016 #16 Share Posted July 20, 2016 3 hours ago, TruthSeeker_ said: Of course. Many scientists have studied mediums and spiritualist manifestations during the Victorian era. Where are the results that offer any validity to the mumbo jumbo you have been pushing? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cormac mac airt Posted July 21, 2016 #17 Share Posted July 21, 2016 (edited) 20 hours ago, Dirty said: Mankind will never reach the next stage of evolution until we realize that science and spiritualism , not religion, are the same. I believe science will eventually prove that a god does exist. not the god we all think of but smething that can only be scientifically explained as god What "next stage" is that as mankind, from the genera Sahelanthropus, Orrorin and Ardipithecus (4 - 7 Mya) through the Australopithecines and on to the genus Homo, which comprises several species/sub-species has already reached "the next stage of evolution" several times over. The genus Homo itself has, over the last circa 200,000 years, gone from a singular Y Chromosome DNA Haplogroup/Mitochondrial DNA Haplogroup each to several thousand subgroups apiece. Our genus itself has also, over its existance, gone from having white or light colored skin under dark colored body hair through to a significant loss of said body hair (approx. 1.2 Mya) and a change to black or brown skin tone as well as eye color only to change amongst some later groups to lighter but more varied skin tones, hair and eye colors. It has also evolved amongst some groups the ability to digest cows milk within the last circa 12,000 years. All of these can quite literally be called a next stage of evolution. Science "proving" the existance of something which cannot exist within the confines of, and does not adhere to, the Universal laws of which our Science is based, as it would of necessity have to pre-date same, cannot therefore support your belief. cormac Edited July 21, 2016 by cormac mac airt 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bendy Demon Posted July 21, 2016 #18 Share Posted July 21, 2016 The problem with the word "god" is that people often think of it in terms of a personified, anthropomorphized thing rather than a metaphor that was used to represent all forces in nature (cosmos and all) Humankind developed just fine without religion or forcing others to accept someone else's concept of natural forces. Life simply does not rely on nor operate on metaphors, anecdotes or mythology in order to develop and adapt. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielost Posted July 21, 2016 #19 Share Posted July 21, 2016 all religions have a grain of truth in them, even atheism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danielost Posted July 21, 2016 #20 Share Posted July 21, 2016 god wants love not belief. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only_ Posted July 21, 2016 #21 Share Posted July 21, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, psyche101 said: Where are the results that offer any validity to the mumbo jumbo you have been pushing? This is out of the topic but I would refer you to the works of William Crookes, Robert Hare, Alfred Russel Wallace, Pierre Curie, Charles Richet ect. And even Sir Arthur Conan Doyle who lectured on the topic! Edited July 21, 2016 by TruthSeeker_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted July 21, 2016 #22 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Okay let's take god out of the equation. What are you left with? If your looking at Christianity then you've got a few moral precepts. Do unto others as you'd have done unto you. Judge not lest ye be judged. Love thy neighbor as thyself. If you attempt to live by these then how much 'wrong' are you doing in life. It basically amount to live and let live. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likely Guy Posted July 21, 2016 #23 Share Posted July 21, 2016 19 hours ago, psyche101 said: Why do you think that things like "Abiogenesis" or "The Big Bang Theory" cannot possibly ever be proven by scientific enquiry? We are quite a way along those tracks already. Neither of which disproves God, unless you consider those possible events may replace the 'concept' of God. But then again one could still argue that abiogenesis and the big bang were caused by a "creator". It's a dog chasing it's tale debate. That's why I don't lose sleep over it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted July 21, 2016 #24 Share Posted July 21, 2016 The major problem is a concrete definition of God. Which god are we talking about. Even then that creates a limit perspective on something that has no know reality. When people argue of about god they wage a war with words about vague concepts of a god. The real issue is what people do because of their beliefs. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted July 21, 2016 #25 Share Posted July 21, 2016 Fairly clearly, the OP referred to the existence of a god which CAN be proven to exist using scientific method. While this allows for considerable flexibility in specifics, it means that such a god has a physical, quantifiable existence, and thus can be measured when our science and technology develops to the required level of sophistication. I am not sure what form of evolution was being referred to, but I assume it was meant as the next stage in the evolution of human consciousness, self awareness or enlightenment I would agree that, until humans come to understand the nature of human spiritual slef awareness and the significance of self aware consciousness we will remain limited and quite primitive beings, no matter how well our technology develops Until humans can understand the true nature of themselves as self aware beings, see their physical and mental connection to the universe around them with clarity and accuracy, and appreciate our unity with all other human beings specifically, we will be in danger of self destruction through war, or resource conflict and greed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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