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Story of Jesus Christ was a HOAX


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On 7/27/2016 at 10:39 PM, Likely Guy said:

Okay, I'm staying out of this until the dust settles.

I'm choosing to stay out too...no comment here...I don't want to forfeit my pearly gates passport :)

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On 8/1/2016 at 3:52 AM, eight bits said:

Stubbs

That's a pretty good question, I reckon.

Specifically the hoax hypothesis? There's gold in them hills. That's fairly recent. Even a few generations ago, there wouldn't have been much of a market (I don't think), and publishers might have worried about retaliation against the rest of their list if they had an offensive title.

 

I find that a good point. :yes: ( plus excuse me for taking so  long in responding to this quote. Yes, I was away from this board for a good chunks of months, ((this time not physically like the 'herniated disc incident of 2015)) for it was more concentration on family like weddings and work where a lot was going on) ..................

Anyways, I should have realized that. I have often found for a tragic situation like the Titanic, which occurred in the early twentieth century, there tends to be more things being published today, that I have fascinating. Plus, yeah, the mindset is different today. 

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More generally, a good story is a good story, even if it's fiction or a historical novel, or the author doesn't commit to a specific genre. I adore Abraham Lincoln, Vampire Hunter. Closer to Jesus, somebody mentioned that unproduced Star Trek movie with Jesus being an alien artifact (or, in Next Generation, the cloned "Klignon Jesus" storyline).

 

Yeah, that too. Going back to my first point, in which I agree with you. :D 

I see your point on the Vampire hunter version of our past president. And in the note of thinking of the different take of Pride and Prejudice with a hint of Zombies, ( I hate zombies ) I even wrote a fanfiction piece years back that had Star Trek: DS9's Bashir, Ezri Dax, and the O'Briens on the Titanic. Although, I have found various historical fictions, mostly so the royal historical fictions tend to have their mary janes or mack joes, in places that history shows they weren't there. Example, I recently read a historical fiction where a fictional character during the time of the Russian royal family a little hard to read. She just so happened to also be in that room, when the family were shot and killed, and she happened to survive it! 

I guess it's can be a fun read for some instances, but not always in others. My crazy point there. ;)  

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Finally, it's fun to discover new things. Like Columbus discovering a new route to Asia. OK, he missed the target, by a lot, but it was still one hell of a trip getting there, and the New World turned out to have charms of its own.

Kind of like how I dive into new stuff about the Titanic. :yes:  :tu:  

Though, I haven't since read more of the topic here. But, I still feel it's fifty/fifty, in how it shows in the media and such, some still show it's true, and some show it's not. 

I *shrug* on that. :) 

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Stubbs!

Good to hear from you again.

Family, weddings, all good stuff. Welcome back.

This topic's specific "Christ myth" theory, the Flavian plot, has too many holes, I think, much like the leaky Zeitgeist theory that was popular a few years ago. Nevertheless, the basic idea that there was no actual man behind the Jesus myths seems robust to me.

People who do believe that there was a real man underneath it all write divergent and incompatible stories of who that man was, what he did, and what he was trying to accomplish. Jesus may as well be fictional, for all that anybody actually knows about his life (assuming he had one).

I'm 60-40 favoring a real man in there somewhere, but I'm 99-1 on Betrand Russell's formula:

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Historically it is quite doubtful whether Christ ever existed at all, and if He did we do not know anything about him…

http://www.users.drew.edu/~jlenz/whynot.html

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There were virgin births, and sacrifices, and  resurrections, in earlier religions.  Nothing much new under the Sun?

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20 hours ago, eight bits said:

Stubbs!

Good to hear from you again.

Family, weddings, all good stuff. Welcome back.

 

Weddings, and other things. Some of it, not as good, but all the concentration on it just the same. But yeah, the wedding, awesome!!! And thanks. Good to be back. :tu: 

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This topic's specific "Christ myth" theory, the Flavian plot, has too many holes, I think, much like the leaky Zeitgeist theory that was popular a few years ago. Nevertheless, the basic idea that there was no actual man behind the Jesus myths seems robust to me.

 

Anything from so long ago, and with various things, that could be facts or not, well yeah, I would see a lot of holes within them. :yes:  ;)   So in a sense, if they believe the man himself didn't exist, do they have one hundred percent proof? I think that depends more so on subjective proof, so I think one cannot really say for sure if he did as a person, or not. 

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People who do believe that there was a real man underneath it all write divergent and incompatible stories of who that man was, what he did, and what he was trying to accomplish. Jesus may as well be fictional, for all that anybody actually knows about his life (assuming he had one).

Interesting way of putting it, right there, I think. :D  Frankly, it kinds of reminds me how various well known figures in history are sometimes portrayed in historical fictions. Most of the characters were actual persons of history and what was mostly known of their actions get written about, but there always some 'assuming' of other things. (from a perspective of one favorite royal historical fiction author, it's not that it's false or that it's true, it's just based from what written in history, some assumptions could be written about in a fiction context.) I guess, it's more so conjecture, than actual fact. Then I'm thinking it's now a subjective line of thinking to the reader. 

But on the other hand, one has to be careful to not get ................ a little crazy. I guess this is where the :rolleyes: debating comes in. Maybe from my point of view, it's probably similar to my getting sick and tired of actual made up fictional characters being placed into historical situations within actual historical individuals. I have read varying versions of the last royal Romonovs family and their tragic demise, and somehow some survive, and of course, the fictional character ( who for some crazy reason is there too ) also survives. 

Maybe the point here is, one can assume something with their conjecture, but wishful thinking will show through when you go to far with it. ;) 

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I'm 60-40 favoring a real man in there somewhere, but I'm 99-1 on Betrand Russell's formula:

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Historically it is quite doubtful whether Christ ever existed at all, and if He did we do not know anything about him…

http://www.users.drew.edu/~jlenz/whynot.html

I'm with you on that. I like the quote and I think it's a good point. To me, I feel he may have existed. It's a subjective feeling of that, and yeah, I fell that way because it's more so a subjective reasoning based that there will probably be more of a story there that eroded from the passing years. Makes me wonder, how much of our moments ( even despite all the recorded technology ) would not be wholly presented years from now. There is probably so much more now, that will disappear through out the ages. 

 

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18 hours ago, lightly said:

There were virgin births, and sacrifices, and  resurrections, in earlier religions.  Nothing much new under the Sun?

There does seem to be a similarity I often see in various if not all religions, of all that you mention. Hell, I find those very things written into made up religions in books and films. I see it in Star Wars for crying out loud! 

And I often think about this. For all of the "miracle virgin birth", one can have that now, and probably not bat an eye to that. I think I read sometime back, where a couple trying to conceive, asked a friend to carry their child for them, and she was a virgin. 

Sacrifices can be seen in so many ways, and medical technology in my eyes, have done close to resurrections, I think. 

Speaking of fiction, how many times are there 'resurrections' written in storylines? There was even a tv series about it. ( AND THEY CANCELLED IT! ) .................................. I'm not bitter. :o    :w00t: 

You're right, in my boat, nothing new. :D   

Edited by Stubbly_Dooright
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