Brexit

[Space Commander Travis]

Anyway, going back to the subject of brexit, I see Theresa May's Blexit pran - I mean Brexit plan has come under attack again.  I must say this is a surprise to me, as she hasn't given any sign to date of having one, or if she does, no one seems to know what if anything it might entail.  

[stevewinn]

2 hours ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

Anyway, going back to the subject of brexit, I see Theresa May's Blexit pran - I mean Brexit plan has come under attack again.  I must say this is a surprise to me, as she hasn't given any sign to date of having one, or if she does, no one seems to know what if anything it might entail.  

I noted Theresa was over in Strasbourg for the funeral of former German chancellor Helmut Kohl. R.I.P

Even on such a day, I thought the media cannot spin a story, but i guess they have, What has happened now Manfred?

 

 

[Space Commander Travis]

i forget what it was about, it was something to do with David Davies I believe. Either he was criticizing someone or someone was criticising him. I suppose it may well have been both. 

[stevewinn]

7 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

i forget what it was about, it was something to do with David Davies I believe. Either he was criticizing someone or someone was criticising him. I suppose it may well have been both. 

oh, was it the news from yesterday - a former member of David Davis staff said Davis had been hamstrung by the Prime ministers red lines?

[Space Commander Travis]

8 minutes ago, stevewinn said:

oh, was it the news from yesterday - a former member of David Davis staff said Davis had been hamstrung by the Prime ministers red lines?

That was it yes, I thought the word hamstrung was in it somewhere 

[stevewinn]

Just now, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

That was it yes, I thought the word hamstrung was in it somewhere 

Story centres around the PM's red-line on the ECJ jurisdiction. Which i agree with, cannot have a foreign court overruling ours, we voted for that to stop.

[Space Commander Travis]

In other news,:

[eugenonegin]

3 hours ago, stevewinn said:

Story centres around the PM's red-line on the ECJ jurisdiction. Which i agree with, cannot have a foreign court overruling ours, we voted for that to stop.

The "O, Jeremy Corbyn" chant is spreading throughout the UK.Looks like we may have our own "Arab Spring", and the end of government red-lines:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2017/jun/12/oh-jeremy-corbyn-how-people-started-chanting-the-labour-leaders-name-video

And on BBC news:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40468881

What is going on?

Edited July 1, 2017 by eugeneonegin

[Unusual Tournament]

9 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Huh? Maybe........ 

I do believe these 6 nations are agree across the majority of other nations as being the root of many troublesome Islamist individuals. Like RoofGardener said, this is actually the Democrats/Obamas's list.

But after sifting through databases, media reports, court documents, and other sources, Alex Nowrasteh, an immigration expert at the libertarian Cato Institute, has arrived at a striking finding: Nationals of the seven countries singled out by Trump have killed zero people in terrorist attacks on U.S. soil between 1975 and 2015.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/01/trump-immigration-ban-terrorism/514361/

[Unusual Tournament]

6 hours ago, eugeneonegin said:

The "O, Jeremy Corbyn" chant is spreading throughout the UK.Looks like we may have our own "Arab Spring", and the end of government red-lines:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2017/jun/12/oh-jeremy-corbyn-how-people-started-chanting-the-labour-leaders-name-video

And on BBC news:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40468881

What is going on?

Corbyn on the rise? Who'd have thought an outta date unelectable red could come back into fashion. Personally, i wrote the guy off a long time ago during his jellyfish performance around the brexit referendum. No leadership. With May and the tories firmly under the influence of hallucinogenic brexit drugs... a strange and new political parallel universe has opened up.

[Space Commander Travis]

7 hours ago, eugeneonegin said:

The "O, Jeremy Corbyn" chant is spreading throughout the UK.Looks like we may have our own "Arab Spring", and the end of government red-lines:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/video/2017/jun/12/oh-jeremy-corbyn-how-people-started-chanting-the-labour-leaders-name-video

And on BBC news:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40468881

What is going on?

It's the finger of God anointing the Jeremy look! 

[eugenonegin]

1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

Corbyn on the rise? Who'd have thought an outta date unelectable red could come back into fashion. Personally, i wrote the guy off a long time ago during his jellyfish performance around the brexit referendum. No leadership. With May and the tories firmly under the influence of hallucinogenic brexit drugs... a strange and new political parallel universe has opened up.

I once felt like you. I was once an unbeliever.

Now I realise the initials "JC" are no coincidence!

He has suffered for us all, and endured scorn....

Now he is starting his ascent, to rise above the electorate and use his benign power to ease our economic suffering....

 

Edited July 2, 2017 by eugeneonegin

[Unusual Tournament]

Praise the lord.

[Black Monk]

16 hours ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

In other news,:

Just £10 for two Alton Towers tickets! I'm off work tomorrow and Tuesday after booking myself a two-day holiday so I might go to Alton Towers on Tuesday after visiting the Museum of Science and Industry in Manchester tomorrow.

[RAyMO]

What we are effectively planning is to negotiate worse terms than we currently enjoy when trading with Europe and its 500million customer block, and simultaneously cancel the trade deals we have with 50 other countries through the EU. Off course we can set up deals with these countries again but I doubt they will be any better than we have now and may take years to bring back online.

I cannot see how Britain is going to be better off certainly in the short to longer medium term. I can see those furthest down the socio economic scale suffering most in this scenario. When the financial crunch comes and it will (we are already this year the worst performing economy in Europe)  all the ideals of uk sovereignty and uk only democracy, and uk only courts will be quickly forgotten. 

People will again vote at future elections based on the pounds in their pockets.

The next 10 years post Brexit  will be very interesting for conservatism, Capitalism and the Union.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2017 by RAyMO

[RoofGardener]

The issue isn't about pure economics, RayMO, it's about sovereignty and nationhood, and a perception of how both would be downgraded in the future if we where to stay in the EU. 

Choosing to resist Hitler wasn't advantageous from a "here and now" economic or trade perspective. But we did it anyway because of anticipated future issues of safety and sovereignty. 

We will most certainly end up with an inferior trading position in relation to the EU. However, we will also GAIN an independent ability to negotiate trade deals with other (non-EU) nations, something that we cannot do whilst a member of the EU. We will also regain our voting seat in the WTO.

[stevewinn]

1 hour ago, RAyMO said:

What we are effectively planning is to negotiate worse terms than we currently enjoy when trading with Europe and its 500million customer block, and simultaneously cancel the trade deals we have with 50 other countries through the EU. Off course we can set up deals with these countries again but I doubt they will be any better than we have now and may take years to bring back online.

I cannot see how Britain is going to be better off certainly in the short to longer medium term. I can see those furthest down the socio economic scale suffering most in this scenario. When the financial crunch comes and it will (we are already this year the worst performing economy in Europe)  all the ideals of uk sovereignty and uk only democracy, and uk only courts will be quickly forgotten. 

People will again vote at future elections based on the pounds in their pockets.

The next 10 years post Brexit  will be very interesting for conservatism, Capitalism and the Union.

 

 

 

 

 

So the 4.9% of British Businesses who trade with the EU are going to bring this country and its economy to its knees. who'd have thought our countrys prosperity and in some peoples minds our very existence relied upon just 4.9% of businesses trading with the EU. And yet after Brexit these companies will still have access to the single market, if there are to be tariffs levied these will be paid by the purchaser/customer. 

over 93% of the British economy is here within the UK. only 11% of British businesses trade globally. in return for the tariff free access to the Single market, we have to apply EU rules to 100% of our economy, pay £10billion a year, hand over control of our borders, hand over our fishing grounds as a community resource, have European courts supersede British courts, and have over 50% of our laws made by the EU.

Are we as country so ****ing far down the shitter that we think the EU are the saviours and the only masters of our destiny. Its about time people had a bit of steel like their forefathers, and stopped being **** houses.

 

Edited July 2, 2017 by stevewinn

[RoofGardener]

I think it is a bit more serious than that Stevewinn. Consider the likely impact of a lot of City Trading (especially in Euro clearing) once we leave. It WILL hurt. 

However, in my opinion, the outcome will still be ultimately positive. Moreover, it is conceivable that the entire European State project is about to crumble. Poland, Czech and Hungary are on the verge of massive fines for refusing to accept EU-mandated refugees. It is entirely feasible that this may cause all three countries to accede from the Union. Moreover, this unprecedented interference in the immigration policy of the countries will have many other EU countries looking over their shoulders.

 Greece has been a drain for some time, and Italy is struggling. The UK is one of only ten net contributors to the EU budget (the other 18 are net beneficiaries), and it is the third largest contributor overall. (even after the rebate). Leaving will result in the EU having a significant financial shortfall. It will either have to scale back its projects, or demand more money out of the remaining 9 contributors. Neither will be popular, and could fuel yet more discontent. 

Edited July 2, 2017 by RoofGardener

[stevewinn]

1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

I think it is a bit more serious than that Stevewinn. Consider the likely impact of a lot of City Trading (especially in Euro clearing) once we leave. It WILL hurt. 

However, in my opinion, the outcome will still be ultimately positive. Moreover, it is conceivable that the entire European State project is about to crumble. Poland, Czech and Hungary are on the verge of massive fines for refusing to accept EU-mandated refugees. It is entirely feasible that this may cause all three countries to accede from the Union. Moreover, this unprecedented interference in the immigration policy of the countries will have many other EU countries looking over their shoulders.

 Greece has been a drain for some time, and Italy is struggling. The UK is one of only ten net contributors to the EU budget (the other 18 are net beneficiaries), and it is the third largest contributor overall. (even after the rebate). Leaving will result in the EU having a significant financial shortfall. It will either have to scale back its projects, or demand more money out of the remaining 9 contributors. Neither will be popular, and could fuel yet more discontent. 

It waits to be seen over the city trading centre. but on those points you raise;

On Euro clearing, the EU want to take away the Insurance of financial Transactions in Euro's from the London Clearing Houses. Currently 75% of all such transactions in Euro's are insured in London and something like 95% of all Dollar transactions.

What exactly will be the consequences of the EU deliberately making the Insurance of Euro Transactions more expensive, I wonder? Just who is meant to be shooting who in the foot again?  plus take into consideration the ECJ ruling the EU commission cannot force the relocation of Euro clearing, there is no conceivable way that either Frankfurt of Paris can offer the same range and volume of finance as London, whatever the odd French or German politician may claim. EU countries and corporations need finance. It comes from London. beit Euro's or Dollars, End of story.  plus MifID II solves the third party problem. MifID II allows firms from non-EU member states to access the EU market, that would include the post Brexit United Kingdom, This means U.K.-based financial services will have to abide by all MiFID II rules, and when they do that they qualify to access the single market. The EU changes the Rules and the EU loses the ability to access Dollars and a range of other currencies on the world market.

https://www.fca.org.uk/markets/mifid-ii

The EU budget - The Brexit hole in that EU Budget is16% but, as i said a while ago the true cost of UK membership will be highlighted during these negotiations. The EU demands a divorce bill of £100Billion. it puts our true contributions to the EU much higher than the 16% and firmly in the 20% range.

Brexit 'will blow hole in budget', EU commissioner warns

Günther Oettinger said the bloc must either spend less or find new money to fill the gap, equivalent to an estimated 16% of the entire budget.

Among the options on the table could be less generous payments to farmers or a tax on financial transactions.

"A big country, a net contributor is leaving," Mr Oettinger said.

"That must have consequences."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40433450

 

[Space Commander Travis]

14 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

The issue isn't about pure economics, RayMO, it's about sovereignty and nationhood, and a perception of how both would be downgraded in the future if we where to stay in the EU. 

Choosing to resist Hitler wasn't advantageous from a "here and now" economic or trade perspective. But we did it anyway because of anticipated future issues of safety and sovereignty. 

We will most certainly end up with an inferior trading position in relation to the EU. However, we will also GAIN an independent ability to negotiate trade deals with other (non-EU) nations, something that we cannot do whilst a member of the EU. We will also regain our voting seat in the WTO.

I wish I could believe these suave assurances, but under a government as clueless and dogmatic as Ms. May and her Conservatives (propped up by the DUP in return for a nice big bribe), I may not be as confident as some about their ability to arrange these deals with other (non-EU) nations, or even see any sign so far that they have any urgency to do so since they seem totally obsessed with Hard Brexit and Sticking Two fingers Up To Europe. 

[RoofGardener]

I dunno about "clueless and dogmatic", MvD. May was fulfilling the wish of the majority when it comes to Brexit. And let's lay this "Hard/Soft" Brexit myth to rest. There IS no "soft" Brexit, nor is there a "hard" Brexit. We voted to leave the EU, which means leaving all of the institutions of the EU (e.g. the internal market, the European Commission/Parliament, the customs union, and the European Court, and many others).

The term "soft brexit", in which we seek to retain membership of certain institutions, is no Brexit at all, but merely a betrayal of the referendum. From that perspective, May is not trying to be dogmatic, she is merely trying to be true to the referendum. She is being honest !

As for deals with other nations; we are not allowed to undertake such deals whilst we are still a member of the EU. I believe that the Civil Service ARE in informal discussions with all SORTS of countries however..

[Space Commander Travis]

5 minutes ago, RoofGardener said:

. May was fulfilling the wish of the majority when it comes to Brexit.

was she? The question regarding Brexit was "Yes or no". That gave any competent government all the scope it could want to properly think it through and thoroughly plan. Instead Ms. May wanted to emulate Mrs. T and be the great unassailable warrior figure leading her people against the tyranny of Brussels, but regrettably failed to realise that she just wasn't actually all that popular. Now she and her Government clearly have no idea of what to do other than shout slogans as if that's a substitute for having any ideas.

[bee]

13 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

was she? The question regarding Brexit was "Yes or no". That gave any competent government all the scope it could want to properly think it through and thoroughly plan. Instead Ms. May wanted to emulate Mrs. T and be the great unassailable warrior figure leading her people against the tyranny of Brussels, but regrettably failed to realise that she just wasn't actually all that popular. Now she and her Government clearly have no idea of what to do other than shout slogans as if that's a substitute for having any ideas.

 

well the Cameron lead Tories didn't seem to have any plan for Brexit because they were sure the vote would go their way -
You, Manfred, seem to have become the Moaner in Chief regarding Brexit whereas at one time you spoke as if you supported it -

it's impossible to see what your position on it all is now as you wildly lash out with destructive sarcasm - 

 

 

 

[Space Commander Travis]

7 minutes ago, bee said:

well the Cameron lead Tories didn't seem to have any plan for Brexit because they were sure the vote would go their way -

 

 

 

yes, exactly. It was due to his arrogance in the first place, but Ms. May was so eager to take over the big leather swivel chair in No. 10, but she had no more idea what to do about the mandate she'd been given than shout slogans, and that was before choosing to sacrifice the majority she already had with an election she didn't need to hold! Stupidity.

Quote

 

You, Manfred, seem to have become the Moaner in Chief regarding Brexit whereas at one time you spoke as if you supported it -

it's impossible to see what your position on it all is now as you wildly lash out with destructive sarcasm - 

 

Well I'm sorry about destructive sarcasm, but that's precisely because I did support it and still do, but the current government has no clue at all how to go about it other than being pointlessly belligerent and shouting slogans. 

Edited July 3, 2017 by Manfred von Dreidecker

[bee]

1 minute ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

yes, exactly. It was due to his arrogance in the first place, but Ms. May was so eager to take over the big leather swivel chair in No. 10, but she had no more idea what to do about the mandate she'd been given than shout slogans, and that was before choosing to sacrifice the majority she already had with an election she didn't need to hold! Stupidity.

c'mon --- she doesn't ''shout slogans'' 

Theresa May is really up against it as she leads the UK out of the European Union - snipers everywhere -
She has the most difficult job that any PM has had for many decades - 

The EU and the Globalists would love to see her fail - but if she fails we all suffer from the consequences -
A wishy washy Brexit where we don't really leave and the democratic result of the referendum is disrespected would
not be good for the country - 

The Remainers haven't given up but at the moment trying to bring May down is all they have - ?