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Is this a male or female Olympian?


seeder

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Do read the whole article....the images are certainly manly
 

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Should Caster Semanya be allowed to compete as a woman? Tipped for 800m gold, she has no ovaries, nearly as much testosterone as a man and has sparked a huge ethical debate

    Caster Semenya, 25, a South African runner, is tipped to win the 800m
    But the athlete has ignited a debate about gender at the Olympic Games
    Semenya has testosterone levels three times the normal level in women
    She has no womb or ovaries but rather internal testes due to abnormality


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3740682/Should-runner-allowed-win-gold-woman-Tipped-win-800m-no-ovaries-nearly-testosterone-man-sparked-huge-ethical-debate.html#ixzz4HPL8QaLs

 

 

 

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Hee hee...

Well, guess it's time to re-evaluate the standards (to say nothing of the purpose) for separating sports into male and female.

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Ealdwita snippet alert....

An ongoing problem it seems....

Stella Walsh, sprinter (Poland) 1930's

Ewa  Klobukowska sprinter (Poland) 1960's

Hermann (Dora)  Ratjen  high jumper (Germany) 1936....Actually male, but alleged the Nazis "forced him to compete as a woman"

Tamara and Irina Press, (Soviet Union) 1960's....Set 25 track and field records, which led to the introduction of compulsory gender testing in 1966

There's quite a few more, but you get the idea.

 

 

 

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I can see athletes now having "testosterone" classifications, like boxers have weight classifications.

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Caster Semenya self-identifies as a woman and so, in honour of feminism, it seems very reasonable for her to compete as one.

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3 minutes ago, Leonardo said:

Caster Semenya self-identifies as a woman 

I don't doubt that he 'she' does if it means he 'she' wins gold medals left, right and centre!

The question should be asked: in what way(s) does 'she' qualify as a woman? That should be simple enough to answer.

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I was once enamoured of a Birmingham barmaid back in the 1960's....She had everything a man could wish for....big muscles, tattoos, hairy chest......

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4 minutes ago, ouija ouija said:

I don't doubt that he 'she' does if it means he 'she' wins gold medals left, right and centre!

The question should be asked: in what way(s) does 'she' qualify as a woman? That should be simple enough to answer.

Apart from the lack of internal female reproductive organs due to her chromosomal abnormality, she has all the other sexual characteristics that a female should have. She does not have male sexual characteristics.

While some, perhaps many, might suggest she is intersex, rather than a "woman", there is no doubt that if we were to consider sex as a spectrum, she would be on the female side of that spectrum. Unless there is some action to introduce separate categories for people who do not fit some "idealised" image of sex (i.e. ideal male or ideal female) then her competing as a woman is unarguably the correct decision.

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"She has no womb or ovaries but rather internal testes due to abnormality." Seems to me she is more man than woman. She has nothing that would clarify her as a woman other than what she identifies as.

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Well going by modern US convention, if she identifies as a woman, she has the right to compete as a woman. 

If the US FedGov is going to force all public schools to allow boys and girls to use each others school bathrooms entirely on the desire of each child, then this Olympic thing obviously has to mean she is a woman only for the point of she believes she is.

Probably we should allow pre-op transexuals to compete as woman also, and strong arm the Olympic Rules Committee into accepting it or being put out of business. That's the way the new PC Universe works, right? At least it is according to Obama.....

My own vote? Female... If she doesn't have the junk, she's a chick.

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33 minutes ago, Leonardo said:

Apart from the lack of internal female reproductive organs due to her chromosomal abnormality, she has all the other sexual characteristics that a female should have. She does not have male sexual characteristics.

While some, perhaps many, might suggest she is intersex, rather than a "woman", there is no doubt that if we were to consider sex as a spectrum, she would be on the female side of that spectrum. Unless there is some action to introduce separate categories for people who do not fit some "idealised" image of sex (i.e. ideal male or ideal female) then her competing as a woman is unarguably the correct decision.

He/she has testes albeit they are inside her/his body and he/she doesn't appear to have breasts, and he/she has testosterone levels off the scale for a female so I would say he/she is more man than woman. Most people looking at that photo would say they were looking at a man. The problem is, who's to say he/she isn't simply saying they are female so that it's easier for them to win races? This is why it's so important for the Olympic committee to stick to physical guidelines.

I wonder if he/she is capable of growing a beard or has chest hair?

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1 minute ago, ouija ouija said:

He/she has testes albeit they are inside her/his body and he/she doesn't appear to have breasts, and he/she has testosterone levels off the scale for a female so I would say he/she is more man than woman. Most people looking at that photo would say they were looking at a man. The problem is, who's to say he/she isn't simply saying they are female so that it's easier for them to win races? This is why it's so important for the Olympic committee to stick to physical guidelines.

I wonder if he/she is capable of growing a beard or has chest hair?

They are, Weej. Caster Semeya has been put through this before and had to undertake a "gender test" in which she was verified as being physically a woman. Many female athletes do not have large breasts and also tend towards more narrow (for a woman) hips, so I would suggest looking at Semenya in her running gear is not particularly useful in making a determination of her sex.

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29 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

. If she doesn't have the junk, she's a chick.

 

Many men have lost their 'junk' thru injuries or cancer...... they are still classified as men arent they?

https://www.google.co.uk/?client=firefox-b#q=men+who+lose+their+penis

 

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Simply put, likely the ONLY reason they called her a girl at birth was because she had no penis.  The standard for gender identification at birth isn't high.

Genetically, she is XX.  Genetically, U.S. society would have to classify her as a woman.

Physically, the only male portion of her are a pair of crippled testes that tried, but failed, to turn into ovaries.  If all it would take was a removal of this to lose any physical argument of her being male, it seems rather disingenuous to claim that testes are so important that they overrule every other aspects of physical being.  Guys, yes, we love the two faithful companions that form the trio, but let's face it...there's more to manhood than having the balls to deal with it.

Ethically, well, sorry, but sometimes people are born with advantages over other people.  Be it physical or mental, it happens.  To claim that a person shouldn't become the best they can be because it would be unfair to others of their kind who society has artificially segregated based on a quick glance at birth?  What kind of messed up society is that?

Well, it's our kind of messed up society.  For all the dressing that people want to put on it about this being an issue of testosterone, of unfairness, of gender testing...it isn't.  Those questions are and have been easily answered, and all of them in favor of her, by the Olympic officials.  The problem here isn't physical.  It's social.

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additionally....anabolic steroids....are....usually testosterone based... males who are tested for steroids can fail if the levels are too high..... so why not fail her for high levels of the male hormone?

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12 hours ago, seeder said:

 

Many men have lost their 'junk' thru injuries or cancer...... they are still classified as men arent they?

https://www.google.co.uk/?client=firefox-b#q=men+who+lose+their+penis

 

It was simply my vote in this case. Enlarge on the issue if you like. 

Like was said, genetically she's a she.

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If the person is genetically a 'she' or a 'he' then that's that. However, I also see no problem with setting limits for certain hormones.

As for what they 'identify' as, the Olympics aren't a lifestyle choice, the Olympics are physical contests. So, the criteria has to remain what gender a person is biologically (not socially).

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3 hours ago, Lilly said:

As for what they 'identify' as, the Olympics aren't a lifestyle choice,

Welll....

In all cases, I would definitely be rather known as an Olympian than as just a guy.

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Does it really matter? Boy or girl, ovaries or not s/hes still human. 

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On 8/16/2016 at 2:27 PM, DieChecker said:

It was simply my vote in this case. Enlarge on the issue if you like. 

Like was said, genetically she's a she.

She is both from what I understand of the article, 

Though Semenya, as is her right, identifies herself in societal terms as a woman, many in the world of medicine would describe her as intersex or a hermaphrodite.

If her body can produce higher levels of testosterone, it is like have a drug for endurance, or some other advantage isn't it? I cannot see where there is a gender issue, if she identifies as female, she is female, but I can see a chemical issue. If she does open a loophole, Russia might give her a medal too.....

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16 hours ago, psyche101 said:

She is both from what I understand of the article, 

Though Semenya, as is her right, identifies herself in societal terms as a woman, many in the world of medicine would describe her as intersex or a hermaphrodite.

If her body can produce higher levels of testosterone, it is like have a drug for endurance, or some other advantage isn't it? I cannot see where there is a gender issue, if she identifies as female, she is female, but I can see a chemical issue. If she does open a loophole, Russia might give her a medal too.....

I think we need to look at it in the larger scope, not just the athletic scope. Can we discriminate against transgender people in sports, but not is common society? If so, then that will open up a giant can of worms. I know she is not transsexual, but I can easily imagine a transgender person who is very similar physically running into the same problem.

I'd say she's female, but perhaps the international community isn't ready for that level of allowances.

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On 8/20/2016 at 8:56 AM, DieChecker said:

I think we need to look at it in the larger scope, not just the athletic scope. Can we discriminate against transgender people in sports, but not is common society? If so, then that will open up a giant can of worms. I know she is not transsexual, but I can easily imagine a transgender person who is very similar physically running into the same problem.

I do not see how it is discrimination if the question is chemical. Effectively, because of her unusual makeup, she has an unfair advantage over other female athletes. Nothing to do with discrimination at all, it would be discriminatory to allow her to compete with an unfair advantage. Her sex is not the issue, it the chemicals her combined sex produces that is. 

These advantages do not have to be in the form of steroids or bodybuilding drugs, Maria Sharapova has been banned for taking Mildronate, allegedly under her doctor's advice. It increases blood flow which will bring more oxygen to the muscles offering a more powerful and sustained performance. I do not know her medical condition, or if she even has one, but I do know what a tremendous advantage additional oxygen in blood flow would be. I see this as a very similar case. 

The big difference I see is this is competitive sport, not a social situation. Social graces are irrelevant to the issue. It is more about the competition and making sure we have "Apples for Apples"

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I'd say she's female, but perhaps the international community isn't ready for that level of allowances.

Well, really she is both and identifies as female, talk about "ready" ;) People struggle with one sex or the other, both has to be a real curveball. I do not see the issue personally, people can't say "you were born a man" or "you were born a woman" she has both, and can experience whatever she wants. 

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