Charles K Posted August 17, 2016 #1 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Hello Ancient Historians! Please ask me anything! I've been rather obsessed with pyramids, and have spent a year researching and writing a book on this stuff! Here is the info! I'd summarise but video does it already! Pyramids are world mountains, mountainous regions being associated with fertile valleys by the first neolithic peoples. On reaching the Nile pyramid builders decided they needed to replicate the conditions of their homeland, Egypt lacking mountains. The Pyramid being a home for particular mountain Gods which were benefactors of mankind. I also explain what the chambers in the Great pyramid are for... etc etc. why there are three pyramids, why there was a sycamore on the plateau, etc etc etc! All pyramids have primordial sources, not in Egypt. The pyramid religion is not originally Egyptian but was brought there, proven by other pyramids religions worldwide. Just ask anything! Charles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanslune Posted August 17, 2016 #2 Share Posted August 17, 2016 (edited) Welcome Charles. From what we know of the cultures in the Nile valley they came from the east and west. While your idea might apply to the Sumerian and culture groups coming out of the Zagros. So where are the Pharaoh's buried? This seems like a rehash of the mother goddess idea from other sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_goddess. The pyramids of Giza are not the center of the world. Found Charles is putting similar messages on other boards - he didn't gift us with his slide show/information site...below: http://whatisgiza.com/ Edited August 17, 2016 by Hanslune 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toast Posted August 17, 2016 #3 Share Posted August 17, 2016 "THIS, WILL CHANGE HISTORY" But anyway, fun to come. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorvir Posted August 17, 2016 #4 Share Posted August 17, 2016 (edited) Edited August 17, 2016 by Thorvir Hrothgaard 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted August 17, 2016 #5 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Hello, Charles, welcome to UM. It's nice to see another enthusiastic person posting here. I'd like to address a couple of things you say in your summary above. None of the monumental structures built by ancient civilisations have been categorically shown to be representative of mountains, that people make this association is simply because both mountains and those monumental structures exemplify the idea of "grandeur". Mountains are grand and majestic while monumental buildings are also grand and majestic, so it's easy to make the association between them - even if it's not strictly correct. Why those ancient builders often chose a pyramid shape for their monumental buildings is simply a matter of engineering. With the materials and technology they had, the only shape that was stable for such monumental structures was the pyramid. Afaik, there is no such thing as "pyramid religion", and the notion of building monumental buildings in the shape of a pyramid was independently arrived at by various ancient civilisations for the reasons I describe above - not because they were exported from some "primordial source". As for the buddha being a fire god, I don't believe you can make that assignation. The nearest thing there was to a fire god in ancient (or indeed, modern) Hinduism is Shiva, and that deity cannot be confused with buddha. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oniomancer Posted August 17, 2016 #6 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Yeah, small problem with that.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mountains_of_Egypt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanslune Posted August 17, 2016 #7 Share Posted August 17, 2016 18 minutes ago, Oniomancer said: Yeah, small problem with that.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mountains_of_Egypt True but most of those are in Sinai which many don't consider to be part of 'true' ancient Egypt. However there are low mountains just to the east of the lower Nile. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oniomancer Posted August 17, 2016 #8 Share Posted August 17, 2016 6 minutes ago, Hanslune said: True but most of those are in Sinai which many don't consider to be part of 'true' ancient Egypt. However there are low mountains just to the east of the lower Nile. Sinai was under Egyptian control for some time though. Even so, those located outside the present bounds of the country are within easy pilgrimage distance. More importantly though, the list only refers to true mountains per the height classification. Egypt has no shortage of sizable low hills and mesas however, particularly in the western desert. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DingoLingo Posted August 17, 2016 #9 Share Posted August 17, 2016 well.. at least he did not say the aliens built it.. so that is 1 step up.. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted August 17, 2016 #10 Share Posted August 17, 2016 I always like the explanation for pyramids being the King being a bit vague to his engineers and them being engineers and looking for the least amount of work to fulfil his requirements - Pharaoh says "it must be so tall and take up all the land set aside for it" and the engineers go "righto" and make a pyramid, because it's as tall as he asked for and covers the ground set aside for it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldrover Posted August 17, 2016 #11 Share Posted August 17, 2016 And, as has been said, it's hugely unlikely to tip over. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted August 17, 2016 #12 Share Posted August 17, 2016 6 hours ago, Charles K said: Hello Ancient Historians! Please ask me anything! I've been rather obsessed with pyramids, and have spent a year researching and writing a book on this stuff! Here is the info! I'd summarise but video does it already! Pyramids are world mountains, mountainous regions being associated with fertile valleys by the first neolithic peoples. On reaching the Nile pyramid builders decided they needed to replicate the conditions of their homeland, Egypt lacking mountains. The Pyramid being a home for particular mountain Gods which were benefactors of mankind. I also explain what the chambers in the Great pyramid are for... etc etc. why there are three pyramids, why there was a sycamore on the plateau, etc etc etc! All pyramids have primordial sources, not in Egypt. The pyramid religion is not originally Egyptian but was brought there, proven by other pyramids religions worldwide. Just ask anything! Charles. You know what ... for a change I did press play on 'one of these' youtubes ...... the first 2 bars of that music - OFF ! Dude ! lame ... lam-o ! That music is on just about every 'sensational new theory' about 'alternative anything' .. besides, I suspect you havent a CLUE what you talking about .... but, as I have not gone further than the OP , and perhaps prematurely committed myself, I am prepared to be admonished for such 'pre-judgement' . 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted August 17, 2016 #13 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Hmmm ... looks like I WON'T be eating my hat .... ..... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylemurph Posted August 17, 2016 #14 Share Posted August 17, 2016 Imagine my surprise at a new poster claiming to turn over all of established history in one fell swoop. *yawn* Well, at least -- as has been said -- he didn't invoke aliens. That's the silver lining, I guess. --Jaylemurph 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cormac mac airt Posted August 17, 2016 #15 Share Posted August 17, 2016 1 hour ago, jaylemurph said: Imagine my surprise at a new poster claiming to turn over all of established history in one fell swoop. *yawn* Well, at least -- as has been said -- he didn't invoke aliens. That's the silver lining, I guess. --Jaylemurph Now jaylemurph, I bet you never knew that a PhD in History and 365 days of research makes one an expert on the Gizamids? cormac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanslune Posted August 18, 2016 #16 Share Posted August 18, 2016 6 hours ago, cormac mac airt said: Now jaylemurph, I bet you never knew that a PhD in History and 365 days of research makes one an expert on the Gizamids? cormac That is a good observation I also noted that Charles did not return to any of the posts he placed here or at other websites - be interesting if he shows up again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorvir Posted August 18, 2016 #17 Share Posted August 18, 2016 15 hours ago, jaylemurph said: Imagine my surprise at a new poster claiming to turn over all of established history in one fell swoop. *yawn* Well, at least -- as has been said -- he didn't invoke aliens. That's the silver lining, I guess. --Jaylemurph Actually, all it takes is one person to do those things. Just not here, on these forums. With a youtube video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toast Posted August 18, 2016 #18 Share Posted August 18, 2016 No, this thread isnt primary about the Pyramids. Its about a book that "will change history". Means, the financial history of the OP. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles K Posted August 19, 2016 Author #19 Share Posted August 19, 2016 (edited) On 18/08/2016 at 1:15 AM, Hanslune said: Welcome Charles. From what we know of the cultures in the Nile valley they came from the east and west. While your idea might apply to the Sumerian and culture groups coming out of the Zagros. So where are the Pharaoh's buried? This seems like a rehash of the mother goddess idea from other sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_goddess. The pyramids of Giza are not the center of the world. Found Charles is putting similar messages on other boards - he didn't gift us with his slide show/information site...below: http://whatisgiza.com/ Hi Thanks! Well.... Robert Temple made a good suggestion in his two recent books, Egyptian Dawn especially. He thinks the Pharaohs are buried underneath the temples in front of the pyramids, which have never been excavated. Now, in the Saiite period of post 1000 BC (these guys loved to imitate far earlier times, they even broke into the Menkaura pyramid and installed a wooden sarcophagus with Menkaura's name on it) temple burial was the established practice. Nice theory, methinks! Charles. Edited August 19, 2016 by Charles K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles K Posted August 19, 2016 Author #20 Share Posted August 19, 2016 (edited) On 18/08/2016 at 1:21 AM, Leonardo said: Hello, Charles, welcome to UM. It's nice to see another enthusiastic person posting here. I'd like to address a couple of things you say in your summary above. None of the monumental structures built by ancient civilisations have been categorically shown to be representative of mountains, that people make this association is simply because both mountains and those monumental structures exemplify the idea of "grandeur". Mountains are grand and majestic while monumental buildings are also grand and majestic, so it's easy to make the association between them - even if it's not strictly correct. Why those ancient builders often chose a pyramid shape for their monumental buildings is simply a matter of engineering. With the materials and technology they had, the only shape that was stable for such monumental structures was the pyramid. Afaik, there is no such thing as "pyramid religion", and the notion of building monumental buildings in the shape of a pyramid was independently arrived at by various ancient civilisations for the reasons I describe above - not because they were exported from some "primordial source". As for the buddha being a fire god, I don't believe you can make that assignation. The nearest thing there was to a fire god in ancient (or indeed, modern) Hinduism is Shiva, and that deity cannot be confused with buddha. Hi Leonardo! RE: The mountains! Well! For starters many pyramids or proto-pyramids are located on tops of mountains, for instance the Giza plateau, Newgrange in Ireland on top of an enormous hill, etc. In this respect, the pyramids are more or less an extension of the mountain, but reaching higher into the heavens. In this respect I was struck by the idea of pyramids/cairns/mounds, whichever form they are found in, representative of the local building materials, to be somehow related to the notion of the tower of babel, or a huge tower reaching up to heaven, the religion which precedes the main part of the Old Testament. Not all, but many, are found on hills, even the hilltops of Indonesia which may have some of the first pyramids! I had the good fortune to be in Ireland and both on top of the Knocknarrea plateau, which contains a huge un-excavated Newgrange-like mound, but minus the tourists, in the west part of Ireland, (and the nearby Megalithic cemetery). This has an 11 meter tall mound, surrounded by other mounds, presumably the cemetery. (you can see it on top of the mountain in the picture below) Now, if we walk 6km, back to the town, we are close to the Carrowmore Megalithic cemetery. This contains a restored mound called Listog-hil. (foreground) Various tourists must have noticed the resemblance of this to the plateau behind it which contains the huge Meave (=Eve?=YHW?=dEVA= Earth Mother/Trickster?) mound. They take photos to this respect. Here is something from google images showing Listoghil in front. I also put a similar pic on the front cover of my book to illustrate the transition from sacred mountain to portable mountain, pyramid, but with Giza overlay also. If you want more information on the link between mountains and pyramids, there is a book by the now deceased AWESOME author, Phillip Coppens, The New Pyramid Age, which was very useful, in which he even discovers that pyramids look like the mountains behind them, an obvious one is the Sun or Moon Pyramid in Mexico. OR you can read his pyramid essays here! Not sure he if broaches the topic here, there are quite a few! http://www.philipcoppens.com/articles.php Of course the other thing linking them to mountains would be their size I suppose... And the old mythology of having a world mountain in the centre of the world. I think they 'centred' the location by incorporating geodetic information. A man called Stecchini did a lot of work in this field. Also want to thank this forum for allowing this platform! There are not THAT many ancient mysteries forums, and fewer still archaeology forums. Even fewer prehistory forums! The old worldwide links, which create many what we perceive to be ancient mysteries, seem to me to be really the field of prehistory. Some event happened which catalysed the beginning of history in 3200 BC and we don't know much before that time. I'm really inspired by some enthusiastic people I’m meeting here and other places! Cheers! Charles. Edited August 19, 2016 by Charles K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles K Posted August 19, 2016 Author #21 Share Posted August 19, 2016 On 18/08/2016 at 1:21 AM, Leonardo said: Hello, Charles, welcome to UM. It's nice to see another enthusiastic person posting here. I'd like to address a couple of things you say in your summary above. None of the monumental structures built by ancient civilisations have been categorically shown to be representative of mountains, that people make this association is simply because both mountains and those monumental structures exemplify the idea of "grandeur". Mountains are grand and majestic while monumental buildings are also grand and majestic, so it's easy to make the association between them - even if it's not strictly correct. Why those ancient builders often chose a pyramid shape for their monumental buildings is simply a matter of engineering. With the materials and technology they had, the only shape that was stable for such monumental structures was the pyramid. Afaik, there is no such thing as "pyramid religion", and the notion of building monumental buildings in the shape of a pyramid was independently arrived at by various ancient civilisations for the reasons I describe above - not because they were exported from some "primordial source". As for the buddha being a fire god, I don't believe you can make that assignation. The nearest thing there was to a fire god in ancient (or indeed, modern) Hinduism is Shiva, and that deity cannot be confused with buddha. As for the fire god situation. I noted that Buddha is a planet in the old Sri Lanka lore, the planet Mercury! This is the messenger or what we might call Hermes Trismegistus, whose worship was associated with the Sphinx. YES! There is overlap in ancient gods, huge overlap! It's a problem for saying anything absolutely! Yes, there is no reason why engineering cannot also be a factor! This must be looked at. A great book on this was Mendelssohn's work on pyramids in the 70s in which he asserted the pyramids were built to unify egypt with a huge project. My problem with his work is it was secular and more or less ignored ancient religion. Giza is a religious complex as there is a cemetery there. Mendelsshon's work is backed up and adopted by various Egyptologists. I think the pyramid religion is basically the World Mythology of the mesolithic. Of course it's spread out. For instance, the Germans had Loki (the devil) under world mound. Americans had a Feathered Serpent a kind of snake worship associated with their pyramids. At Silbury we have a snake in William Stukeley's pictures of Silbury, wrapping itself around Silbury, perhaps their old Equivalent of World mound. Also, the serpent mound in the USA! These aspects of world mythology and archaeology, spread across the world, give me the confidence to assert a world religion, even if it had regional variants. I think tribes spread quickly in catastrophe, and then planted their seeds elsewhere, particularly in times when agriculture was not as reliable as in later times. I've been up all night! Must sleep! will be keen to check by some other time! Cheers guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanslune Posted August 19, 2016 #22 Share Posted August 19, 2016 2 hours ago, Charles K said: Hi Thanks! Well.... Robert Temple made a good suggestion in his two recent books, Egyptian Dawn especially. He thinks the Pharaohs are buried underneath the temples in front of the pyramids, which have never been excavated. Now, in the Saiite period of post 1000 BC (these guys loved to imitate far earlier times, they even broke into the Menkaura pyramid and installed a wooden sarcophagus with Menkaura's name on it) temple burial was the established practice. Nice theory, methinks! Charles. Thanks for the reply! Mortuary temples have been excavated and no Pharaohs. If it was a custom shouldn't all the Pharaoh's be buried under their temples? Additionally Khufu mortuary temple was excavated in the 1930's- let me guess the tomb is thought to be in whatever part wasn't excavated right? And if the entire temple is dug up it somewhere in the vicinity right? http://www.gizapyramids.org/static/pdf library/hassan_giza_10.pdf Given a 100 plus mortuary temples and no tombs a nice theory indeed but lacking evidence. As you didn't reply to my other comments I'll take that as a nod you accepted you were wrong on those issues. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanslune Posted August 19, 2016 #23 Share Posted August 19, 2016 2 hours ago, Charles K said: Hi Leonardo! RE: The mountains! Well! For starters many pyramids or proto-pyramids are located on tops of mountains, for instance the Giza plateau, Newgrange in Ireland on top of an enormous hill, etc. In this respect, the pyramids are more or less an extension of the mountain, but reaching higher into the heavens. In this respect I was struck by the idea of pyramids/cairns/mounds, whichever form they are found in, representative of the local building materials, to be somehow related to the notion of the tower of babel, or a huge tower reaching up to heaven, the religion which precedes the main part of the Old Testament. Not all, but many, are found on hills, even the hilltops of Indonesia which may have some of the first pyramids! I had the good fortune to be in Ireland and both on top of the Knocknarrea plateau, which contains a huge un-excavated Newgrange-like mound, but minus the tourists, in the west part of Ireland, (and the nearby Megalithic cemetery). This has an 11 meter tall mound, surrounded by other mounds, presumably the cemetery. (you can see it on top of the mountain in the picture below) Now, if we walk 6km, back to the town, we are close to the Carrowmore Megalithic cemetery. This contains a restored mound called Listog-hil. (foreground) Various tourists must have noticed the resemblance of this to the plateau behind it which contains the huge Meave (=Eve?=YHW?=dEVA= Earth Mother/Trickster?) mound. They take photos to this respect. Here is something from google images showing Listoghil in front. I also put a similar pic on the front cover of my book to illustrate the transition from sacred mountain to portable mountain, pyramid, but with Giza overlay also. If you want more information on the link between mountains and pyramids, there is a book by the now deceased AWESOME author, Phillip Coppens, The New Pyramid Age, which was very useful, in which he even discovers that pyramids look like the mountains behind them, an obvious one is the Sun or Moon Pyramid in Mexico. OR you can read his pyramid essays here! Not sure he if broaches the topic here, there are quite a few! http://www.philipcoppens.com/articles.php Of course the other thing linking them to mountains would be their size I suppose... And the old mythology of having a world mountain in the centre of the world. I think they 'centred' the location by incorporating geodetic information. A man called Stecchini did a lot of work in this field. Also want to thank this forum for allowing this platform! There are not THAT many ancient mysteries forums, and fewer still archaeology forums. Even fewer prehistory forums! The old worldwide links, which create many what we perceive to be ancient mysteries, seem to me to be really the field of prehistory. Some event happened which catalysed the beginning of history in 3200 BC and we don't know much before that time. I'm really inspired by some enthusiastic people I’m meeting here and other places! Cheers! Charles. I presume you've never been to Egypt if you state that the pyramids are build atop 'mountains', a hill maybe they are nothing special and their higher points near by. Phillip Coppens was many things but a useful source of solid information- well no. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanslune Posted August 19, 2016 #24 Share Posted August 19, 2016 2 hours ago, Charles K said: I think the pyramid religion is basically the World Mythology of the mesolithic. Of course it's spread out. For instance, the Germans had Loki (the devil) under world mound. Americans had a Feathered Serpent a kind of snake worship associated with their pyramids. At Silbury we have a snake in William Stukeley's pictures of Silbury, wrapping itself around Silbury, perhaps their old Equivalent of World mound. These aspects of world mythology and archaeology, spread across the world, give me the confidence to assert a world religion, even if it had regional variants. I think tribes spread quickly in catastrophe, and then planted their seeds elsewhere, particularly in times when agriculture was not as reliable as in later times. There is no evidence for a 'world religion' while many religion arose and incorporated similar memes and ideas that was because religion were designed to explain the physical and non-physical world. Therefore you get gods and goddesses for the same phenomenon all over the world. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonardo Posted August 19, 2016 #25 Share Posted August 19, 2016 (edited) 4 hours ago, Charles K said: Hi Leonardo! RE: The mountains! Well! For starters many pyramids or proto-pyramids are located on tops of mountains, for instance the Giza plateau, Newgrange in Ireland on top of an enormous hill, etc. In this respect, the pyramids are more or less an extension of the mountain, but reaching higher into the heavens. In this respect I was struck by the idea of pyramids/cairns/mounds, whichever form they are found in, representative of the local building materials, to be somehow related to the notion of the tower of babel, or a huge tower reaching up to heaven, the religion which precedes the main part of the Old Testament. Not all, but many, are found on hills, even the hilltops of Indonesia which may have some of the first pyramids! To understand why ancient cultures sited their monumental/megalithic structures where they did we should take some time to list what those structures meant to those cultures. First and foremost, they were important. It is basic human behaviour to put important things where they can be easily noticed/admired. For the large structures, high ground makes perfect sense in that regard. That doesn't mean they represented "high ground" (i.e. mountains). Because these structures don't contribute to food production, it would make little sense to place them in prime, low-lying agricultural areas, and to prevent them being quickly destroyed by natural forces, they weren't sited in low valley areas either - because those areas often had rivers/streams running through them that would erode the buildings. Lastly low mountains, plateaus, etc are often the sites with the best foundation in terms of solid bedrock close to the surface, so placing very large structures like the pyramids there makes a lot of engineering sense. By placing the pyramids high up overlooking the city below, the pharaohs placed themselves "over" the populace. I don't see any intent to build the pyramids specifically as "mountains", but only to make them elevated so as to heighten their importance and grandeur and, by extension, those to whom the structures are dedicated. Likely many other ancient monumental/megalithic structures were built with the same intent in mind. Edited August 19, 2016 by Leonardo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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