Farmer77 Posted April 1, 2017 #426 Share Posted April 1, 2017 Just now, Emma_Acid said: Wow. Just.. wow. What a staggeringly ignorant and arrogant post. I don't know where to start with people like you. This is why I've given up on places like UN and other social media. You have no idea. And you don't even have the capacity to learn about anything that doesn't fit your cosy little worldview. I can't even wish you all the best, because your "best" is such a grim, horrible place. I'm done. The horrible irony is I know many whose lives have been destroyed with no small amount of help from the crushing guilt religion has cast upon them and their search to make the pain from that guilt end. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Noteverythingisaconspiracy Posted April 1, 2017 #427 Share Posted April 1, 2017 2 minutes ago, Emma_Acid said: Wow. Just.. wow. What a staggeringly ignorant and arrogant post. I don't know where to start with people like you. This is why I've given up on places like UN and other social media. You have no idea. And you don't even have the capacity to learn about anything that doesn't fit your cosy little worldview. I can't even wish you all the best, because your "best" is such a grim, horrible place. I'm done. All the stuff about "love thy neighbour" seems to be optional. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted April 2, 2017 #428 Share Posted April 2, 2017 On 28/12/2016 at 0:28 PM, AustinHinton said: Why is it that churches ask for money? Isn't money seen as a sin or something by many religions? Churches aren't taxed, so its not like they have those to pay. Why do football clubs ask for money and get billion dollar stadiums built for them by taxpayers money? here is an alternative pov ........................................................................................................................................................................... A POINT or two. Many not-for-profit and charity groups do not pay income tax and can claim their GST back. Most companies and businesses can claim input tax credits. If they did not then an item might have five lots or more of GST added on its journey to the customer. Companies can offset expenses and losses against tax. Churches cannot do this. Companies make profits. Churches are a not-for-profit/charity organisation. Churches serve the community. Meals and food parcels and accommodation; assistance with numerous other issues. The local churches in Bundaberg put in millions of dollars worth of aid in finance and in-kind support to the community continually. All this due to the generous giving of the church attendees. No one is forced to give to the church, contrary to some lies propagated by opponents. If you taxed the church let me remind you of the results. As a normal company, churches could claim numerous deductions which they cannot do at this time. They would still not make a profit so there would be no tax payable anyway. Lots of work for no return but increased costs therefore reducing the charitable works that the churches do for free that the government cannot afford to do. So if you are happy to pay more personal income tax to pay someone to do the work churches do in and for the community for free, go ahead. ADVERTISING inRead invented by Teads That is why churches are not taxed. PASTOR ERROL BUCKLE Bundaberg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted April 2, 2017 #429 Share Posted April 2, 2017 (edited) On 08/03/2017 at 0:39 PM, davros of skaro said: That's not logic, that's bias. I, or any atheist I know use hard drugs (not that I personally know many). I do know theists that do coke, and are weirded out that I refuse. I find it often that it's the theist that has addiction problems hence being prone to thought addiction. Yes, that's because you're stuck in magical thinking. Fantasy is your pleasure. I would much rather have a beer with Neil Degrasse Tyson than hang out with people barely a step up from kids playing pretend. You may know an atheist that's closeted, but would never know it because they follow logic, and reason to live a healthy lifestyle (not your Sodom & Gomorrah view). Not necessarily. There is a lot of statistical evidence, not only that theists use less drugs and alcohol than atheists, but that they suffer less from depression. and anxiety. maybe its just a matter of switching crutches but it also makes logical sense. Young Swiss men who say that they believe in God are less likely to smoke cigarettes or pot or take ecstasy pills than Swiss men of the same age group who describe themselves as atheists. Belief is a protective factor against addictive behaviour. This is the conclusion reached by a study funded by the Swiss National Science Foundation. At the army recruitment centre For their study on substance use in Switzerland, Gmel and his colleagues interviewed almost twenty-year-old men at army recruitment centres in Lausanne, Windisch and Mels between August 2010 and November 2011. The researchers have now evaluated the 5387 questionnaires completed by the young men. Based on the responses, the scientists split the young men into five groups: the "religious" believe in God and attend church services, the "spiritual" believe in a higher power, but do not practice any religion, the "unsure" do not know what to believe about God, the "agnostics" assume that no-one can know whether there is a God or not, and the "atheists" do not believe in God. The researchers found that these groups deal differently with addictive substances. Among the 543 religious young men, 30% smoked cigarettes daily, 20% smoked pot more than once a week and less than 1% had consumed ecstasy or cocaine in the past year. Among the 1650 atheists, 51% smoked cigarettes, 36% smoked pot more than once a week, 6% had consumed ecstasy and 5% cocaine in the past year. The three groups that lay between these extremes were in the mid-range both regarding their religious beliefs and the consumption of addictive substances. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/10/131003093041.htm Generally speaking, the research indicates that people who don’t identify with a particular religion or regularly attend church are more likely to abuse alcohol, tobacco, or illicit drugs. It’s difficult to measure a person’s level of religious affiliation, but the regularity of church attendance is generally considered the best approach. A report from University of Michigan and University of Pittsburgh researchers shows that only 26.3 percent of those who attend services once a week or more are drinkers, compared to 54.5 percent of people who never attend religious services. This trend continues for teens who report using marijuana who attend church weekly and who never attend. Similarly, a survey from Columbia University shows that 19 percent of teens who attend religious services weekly had consumed alcohol in the month prior to the survey compared to 32 percent who attend once a month. Studies based on the participants’ reported religious affiliation also follow the same trend, with the non-religious being more likely to abuse substances than believers. A study conducted across Scotland showed that non-religious participants were more likely to have over 14 drinks per week, smoke, use marijuana, amphetamines, LSD, and ecstasy. This was often around twice as likely. Research from Brigham Young University, which looked at religious affiliation and drug use in Utah, found that people reporting no religion were more likely to have consumed alcohol in the last 30 days, and more likely to have done so anywhere from four to 12 days of the last month. http://www.christiandrugrehab.com/christian-recovery/do-atheists-abuse-substances-more-than-theists-and-why/ Adults who do not consider religious beliefs important are more than one-and-a-half times more likely to smoke, more than three times likelier to binge-drink, almost four times likelier to use an illicit drug other than marijuana and more than six times likelier to smoke pot than adults who believe that religion is important. Adults who never attend religious services are three times more likely to smoke, more than five times likelier to use an illicit drug other than marijuana, almost seven times likelier to binge-drink and almost eight times likelier to smoke pot than those who attend religious services at least weekly. Teens who do not consider religious beliefs important are almost three times more likely to drink, binge-drink and smoke, almost four times likelier to use marijuana and seven times likelier to use illicit drugs than teens who believe that religion is important. Teens who never attend religious services are twice as likely to drink, more than twice as likely to smoke, more than three times likelier to use marijuana and binge-drink and almost four times likelier to use illicit drugs than teens who attend religious services at least weekly. College students with no religious affiliation are more likely to binge-drink than those who identify themselves as Catholics or Protestants. The one-third of prison inmates who participate in religious activities exhibit lower rates of recidivismand recidivism is due almost entirely to drug and alcohol abuse. http://www.americamagazine.org/issue/360/article/religion-science-and-substance-abuse Edited April 2, 2017 by Mr Walker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emma_Acid Posted April 5, 2017 #430 Share Posted April 5, 2017 On 4/2/2017 at 0:42 AM, Farmer77 said: The horrible irony is I know many whose lives have been destroyed with no small amount of help from the crushing guilt religion has cast upon them and their search to make the pain from that guilt end. me too. I don't know any atheists on "hard drugs" and I know a lot of atheists. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Summerin1905 Posted April 5, 2017 #431 Share Posted April 5, 2017 reason why i don't believe in a higher being or power? simple there is no proof. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podo Posted April 5, 2017 #432 Share Posted April 5, 2017 3 hours ago, Emma_Acid said: me too. I don't know any atheists on "hard drugs" and I know a lot of atheists. I admittedly do know a few, but their drug addiction has nothing to do with their lack of theism. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted April 6, 2017 #433 Share Posted April 6, 2017 23 hours ago, Summerin1905 said: reason why i don't believe in a higher being or power? simple there is no proof. But as i have pointed out many times, this misses the whole point. Belief can only exist where there IS no proof. If you have proof you have knowledge, and both disbelief and belief become impossible. You can believe in anything, through faith, and have absolutely no evidence for it. What you are saying here is that you are choosing not to believe. You are completely free to believe, despite there being (for you) no evidences. For example a person with no evidences might chose to believe simply because it made them happier or healthier. They might choose to believe because it offered them hope or comfort. They might choose to believe because it helped them make sense of their existence, and provided meaning/purpose, in their life. Belief is independent of evidences, and is motivated by the nature of belief itself. and the benefits belief brings to people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emma_Acid Posted April 6, 2017 #434 Share Posted April 6, 2017 (edited) On 05/04/2017 at 7:32 PM, Podo said: I admittedly do know a few, but their drug addiction has nothing to do with their lack of theism. The only people I know who take hard drugs believe in God. They also, almost without exception, experience crippling, faith-based guilt in many areas of their lives. I'm not saying this is what religious people are like - just my friends. Edited April 6, 2017 by Emma_Acid 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted April 7, 2017 #435 Share Posted April 7, 2017 (edited) On 07/04/2017 at 4:05 AM, Emma_Acid said: The only people I know who take hard drugs believe in God. They also, almost without exception, experience crippling, faith-based guilt in many areas of their lives. I'm not saying this is what religious people are like - just my friends. I dont deny this. But I have the opposite experience Of all my friends and family the religious ones not only dont take drugs, they dont take alcohol, or smoke cigarettes, and many are vegetarian. Some don't even drink tea or coffee or soft drinks because the y want to keep their bodies healthy, and fit to be a home for god's presence in them. On the other hand, many atheist friends, and some of my extended family, (especially young ones) spend a lot of time trying to waste themselves and blot out the emptiness and loneliness of their existence. This can range from over indulgence in alcohol, to those addicted to harder drugs, and a sad few who are addicted to ice, and will lose their families and eventually their lives to it These people have many psychological issues, but basically don't care enough about themselves to discipline their behaviours, and don't love themselves, or feel loved enough by others, to be happy, without pharmaceutical support. There is something wrong with a religious belief that makes you guilty. I don't understand it. For any christian believer, the bible's theology is quite clear. You don't have to have a burden of guilt. Confess, repent, ask forgiveness, and all your sins will be forgiven, Ie washed away This SHOULD be the most powerful liberating experience a human being can have. Only someone who really does not believe in the absolute forgiveness of sins (ie does not really understand or believe in the basic theology of the bible) could be crippled by guilt All others should feel a tremendous freedom . I suspect this is often a result of false historical catholic interpretation of the bible and an almost deliberate historical attempt by that church to control people through guilt. SIncerely repent, confess, (to your victim and to god) genuinely decide not to commit that sin again, and make restitution to those hurt by your actions, and all and any sins are forgiven. I guess of course there are people crippled by guilt because they know they are continuing to do wrong and to hurt themselves and others yet continue to do so despite that knowldge. That is not a religious guilt but a deeper psychological guilt resulting from the fact that humans are self aware, and KNOW right from wrong, and know how actions have consequences. if "you" choose to continue to commit adultery, and yet are wracked by guilt over this, then i guess you only have yourself to blame. Stop doing it, confess, try to make it right, and there iis no longer any religious guilt or blame attached to you, because your past behaviour is forgiven and washed away and you become a new man or woman. It is this concept of utter forgiveness of actions which so many people find hard to understand and accept, because they could not give that forgiveness themselves. . Edited April 7, 2017 by Mr Walker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted April 9, 2017 #436 Share Posted April 9, 2017 (edited) On 08/04/2017 at 8:43 AM, Scudbuster said: Oh boy, now that's just rich, real rich. Unfortunately, the brainwashing has been quite effective with you young skywalker, otherwise you wouldn't be spouting such hogwash. I'm a proud non believer, and have never, ever, seen a hard drug of any kind. Now, I do like a good local brewski from time to time or a good glass of wine, that's about it. And an extra piece of pumpkin pie at Thanksgiving. Same for my brothers, they are pretty much mirror images of me when it comes to beliefs and favorite drinks. So there's more than just one of me. Now, just ask yourself, what are you basing your beliefs on?? Historians know the bible was written by men, about 35-40 of them over the eons. Not some "god". Now these guys, some were intellectuals from their time, some prophets, wanna be prophets, soothsayers, dreamers, etc - probably pretty good intentioned people I imagine all in all. However, these guys all believed the sun orbited around our humble little speck of dust we call home - we were IT bay-bee!!! Yes sir, it's all about us...! So lets come up with some tall tales about what we are all about. Not a speck of scientific analysis anywhere. And you are going to take these guys seriously?? Hey, they might have been OK for their time when there was nothing else to go on, but it's time to put their stories into the dust bins of history, that's where their ramblings and dreams should reside going forward. As Radar O'Reilly would say, "that is all". Look at the the statistics I gave earlier, (post 429) and the sources provided. From all around the world, the evidence is clear, that non believers DO have higher intakes of all forms of drugs, from alcohol and cigarettes to illegal drugs i appreciate you are telling the truth as you experience it, because individual situations differ. BUT overall the evidence is conclusive. Perhaps to substitute one crutch for another, or perhaps because a high proportion of believers have a different attitude to taking drugs and alcohol , atheists and non believers have a higher consumption of, and dependency on, drugs, particularly among the young. Edited April 9, 2017 by Mr Walker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlitterRose Posted April 9, 2017 #437 Share Posted April 9, 2017 (edited) I've met a fair number of people who have (at least tried) to use God as a way to escape various forms of addiction. They don't typically join your run-of-the-mill moderate churches. They become loud and obnoxious fundamentalists...the types you see with the God hates **** signs. They haven't been cured. They are just using the rush they get from extremism to try to sub for the drugs. Edited April 9, 2017 by ChaosRose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Walker Posted April 9, 2017 #438 Share Posted April 9, 2017 (edited) On 06/04/2017 at 1:31 AM, Summerin1905 said: reason why i don't believe in a higher being or power? simple there is no proof. Redundant post by me. I had already answered this. Edited April 9, 2017 by Mr Walker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindpurge Posted April 18, 2017 Author #439 Share Posted April 18, 2017 On 4/9/2017 at 1:37 PM, ChaosRose said: I've met a fair number of people who have (at least tried) to use God as a way to escape various forms of addiction. They don't typically join your run-of-the-mill moderate churches. They become loud and obnoxious fundamentalists...the types you see with the God hates **** signs. They haven't been cured. They are just using the rush they get from extremism to try to sub for the drugs. This is probably the worst point I've read so far... sorry man, but swing and miss, big time. I think you're generalizing to an extreme, with absolutely no evidence or point... just rushing to a negative because it fits into your agenda. The sheer amount of people that have taken up the belief in god, by purging their drug addictions - and you make it sound like the majority of them fall into some sort fanatical psycho sect of crazies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nuclear Wessel Posted April 18, 2017 #440 Share Posted April 18, 2017 On 3/4/2017 at 1:32 PM, mindpurge said: I don't find it uncomfortable. What I do see a lot of however, are those that are spiritual (and I'm not talking about religion) that do believe in a higher power, voicing their opinions in a non-judgemental way, not attacking those that don't believe. But I see a lot of attacks coming from those that don't believe in anything (not all of you), attacking and hounding, calling people that have spirituality beliefs idiots, or talking down to them. Can you provide some examples? You mention that you have seen a lot of that, so I am convinced that it should not be too difficult for you to provide some examples of what you deem as non-believers "talking down" to those who do not believe, or downright calling believers "idiots". From what I have read and experienced here there is very little (if any) name-calling or "attacking" believers and more demonstrating the logical inconsistencies of said beliefs--rather, attacking the beliefs themselves, not the individuals. Quote You see... there's no science that can disprove a higher power, none. No, you're correct. And? It is not up to science to "disprove" or "prove" anything but rather to find the statistical significance of evidence as it pertains to a hypothesis. Quote There is no research that can be done, no testing, no numbers, no results that can be compared to previous results. There isn't a shred of evidence that a supernatural power isn't there. There is also no evidence to suggest that there is a supernatural power. What of it? Quote So I find it funny, that so many are so fixated on trying to prove, or to push, in the notion that a higher power could not exist, without religious context. I think that these notions are only "pushed" (which in reality actually translates to "making logical arguments against the truth claims, asserting it is not correct" based on my experience) when there are being claims made to assert the existence of a higher power. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Sherapy Posted April 20, 2017 #441 Share Posted April 20, 2017 (edited) On 4/2/2017 at 3:36 AM, Mr Walker said: Not necessarily. There is a lot of statistical evidence, not only that theists use less drugs and alcohol than atheists, but that they suffer less from depression. and anxiety. maybe its just a matter of switching crutches but it also makes logical sense. Young Swiss men who say that they believe in God are less likely to smoke cigarettes or pot or take ecstasy pills than Swiss men of the same age group who describe themselves as atheists. Belief is a protective factor against addictive behaviour. This is the conclusion reached by a study funded by the Swiss National Science Foundation. At the army recruitment centre For their study on substance use in Switzerland, Gmel and his colleagues interviewed almost twenty-year-old men at army recruitment centres in Lausanne, Windisch and Mels between August 2010 and November 2011. The researchers have now evaluated the 5387 questionnaires completed by the young men. Based on the responses, the scientists split the young men into five groups: the "religious" believe in God and attend church services, the "spiritual" believe in a higher power, but do not practice any religion, the "unsure" do not know what to believe about God, the "agnostics" assume that no-one can know whether there is a God or not, and the "atheists" do not believe in God. The researchers found that these groups deal differently with addictive substances. Among the 543 religious young men, 30% smoked cigarettes daily, 20% smoked pot more than once a week and less than 1% had consumed ecstasy or cocaine in the past year. Among the 1650 atheists, 51% smoked cigarettes, 36% smoked pot more than once a week, 6% had consumed ecstasy and 5% cocaine in the past year. The three groups that lay between these extremes were in the mid-range both regarding their religious beliefs and the consumption of addictive substances. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/10/131003093041.htm Generally speaking, the research indicates that people who don’t identify with a particular religion or regularly attend church are more likely to abuse alcohol, tobacco, or illicit drugs. It’s difficult to measure a person’s level of religious affiliation, but the regularity of church attendance is generally considered the best approach. A report from University of Michigan and University of Pittsburgh researchers shows that only 26.3 percent of those who attend services once a week or more are drinkers, compared to 54.5 percent of people who never attend religious services. This trend continues for teens who report using marijuana who attend church weekly and who never attend. Similarly, a survey from Columbia University shows that 19 percent of teens who attend religious services weekly had consumed alcohol in the month prior to the survey compared to 32 percent who attend once a month. Studies based on the participants’ reported religious affiliation also follow the same trend, with the non-religious being more likely to abuse substances than believers. A study conducted across Scotland showed that non-religious participants were more likely to have over 14 drinks per week, smoke, use marijuana, amphetamines, LSD, and ecstasy. This was often around twice as likely. Research from Brigham Young University, which looked at religious affiliation and drug use in Utah, found that people reporting no religion were more likely to have consumed alcohol in the last 30 days, and more likely to have done so anywhere from four to 12 days of the last month. http://www.christiandrugrehab.com/christian-recovery/do-atheists-abuse-substances-more-than-theists-and-why/ Adults who do not consider religious beliefs important are more than one-and-a-half times more likely to smoke, more than three times likelier to binge-drink, almost four times likelier to use an illicit drug other than marijuana and more than six times likelier to smoke pot than adults who believe that religion is important. Adults who never attend religious services are three times more likely to smoke, more than five times likelier to use an illicit drug other than marijuana, almost seven times likelier to binge-drink and almost eight times likelier to smoke pot than those who attend religious services at least weekly. Teens who do not consider religious beliefs important are almost three times more likely to drink, binge-drink and smoke, almost four times likelier to use marijuana and seven times likelier to use illicit drugs than teens who believe that religion is important. Teens who never attend religious services are twice as likely to drink, more than twice as likely to smoke, more than three times likelier to use marijuana and binge-drink and almost four times likelier to use illicit drugs than teens who attend religious services at least weekly. College students with no religious affiliation are more likely to binge-drink than those who identify themselves as Catholics or Protestants. The one-third of prison inmates who participate in religious activities exhibit lower rates of recidivismand recidivism is due almost entirely to drug and alcohol abuse. http://www.americamagazine.org/issue/360/article/religion-science-and-substance-abuse Talk about how the pot calling the kettle black, you were once a drinker and smoker, quit in your twenties vowed to be a non-judgmental person, and see all as his brethren. What strikes me in this post is how little compassion and empathy you extend to others. If you are trying to be an inspiration which I do think is your goal, it is not coming across. What is coming across is an attitude of arrogance. Edited April 20, 2017 by Sherapy 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindpurge Posted April 20, 2017 Author #442 Share Posted April 20, 2017 On 3/7/2017 at 8:32 PM, Liquid Gardens said: Welcome to UM, mindpurge! If you don't think life would 'matter' if one is an atheist, can you elaborate on how exactly your belief in, if I'm reading you correctly, a 'higher power, without religious context' does make something 'matter'? Among other things, I have a cat, I enjoy caring for her and it indeed provides some meaning to me to do so, it definitely matters given if nothing else what the alternative would likely be for her if she didn't allow me to live with her, she makes me happier than I would otherwise be, and we're both going to die. What part makes things not matter? How does 'a higher power' provide more meaning to that or make things matter more? If it's just that we're going to die, then from another perspective it makes everything we do here matter that much more; how does less than 100 years of this earthly life matter at all, logically, to an eternal life? I don't really have any frame of reference as far as what you do believe so I can't ask anything more specific, but I'm always interested in understanding how God or a higher power or spirituality makes things 'matter' more, in any objective sense. Thanks for the welcome, but I'm not really new but thanks. I enjoy a good debate devoid of insult or attacks, so thanks for the lack of hostility, I appreciate it. I truly find the thought that "everything ends" when you die to be ridiculous because of the lack of impact it puts into the existence of everything. You see, I personally believe in the afterlife, not ghosts or things like that, although that's a matter of another topic. I do not, and simply cannot believe that sentient existence is random. I was religious before, then I was non-religious, then I was awoken to something more, void of religion, but understanding of infinite. I'm actually very pressed for time at the moment, so I'll continue this sometime later. MP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nuclear Wessel Posted April 20, 2017 #443 Share Posted April 20, 2017 8 minutes ago, mindpurge said: I truly find the thought that "everything ends" when you die to be ridiculous because of the lack of impact it puts into the existence of everything. That is certainly an interesting thought! Though, I am curious... would there not be a more significant impact placed into the existence of everything BECAUSE you only have one life to live and there is no continuation after death? In other words, there would be more of an encouragement to enjoy everything that is available to you right now because you only get to exist once. Just my $0.02 on your statement. Quote You see, I personally believe in the afterlife, not ghosts or things like that, although that's a matter of another topic. Quite fascinating. Why do you hold those beliefs? Is there any particular reason? Quote I do not, and simply cannot believe that sentient existence is random. An interesting point, and I must digress that sentient existence is not, per se, "random"; sentience exists because of natural selection and evolution. In other words, things that had sentience-like traits were more likely to breed and reproduce. I think. I don't really know, but I think it is quite likely. Quote I was religious before, then I was non-religious, then I was awoken to something more, void of religion, but understanding of infinite. Can you elaborate more on this? What led to this awakening? What is this understanding that you have? Quote I'm actually very pressed for time at the moment, so I'll continue this sometime later. No worries, but I hope you answer the questions that I have this time around instead of seemingly ignoring them again! I look forward to your responses. I hope my responses (in this post or my previous posts to you) didn't come off as hostile--I'm just a genuinely curious person and can, at times, be rather blunt about my curiosity which sometimes comes off as somewhat abrasive to others. Cheers! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug1029 Posted April 29, 2017 #444 Share Posted April 29, 2017 On 4/5/2017 at 10:17 AM, Emma_Acid said: me too. I don't know any atheists on "hard drugs" and I know a lot of atheists. Hard cider might be another issue. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dhurfjooydig Posted May 5, 2017 #445 Share Posted May 5, 2017 I acknowledge a more expansive power than 'self' ... specifically, the patterns and processes of the body / mind, that exist innately embedded in, and at the effect of, the patterns and processes of terrestrial systems, that are embedded in, and at the effect of, exoterrestrial patterns and processes ... all interdependent and interrelational, existing as a dynamic whole. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarakore Posted May 5, 2017 #446 Share Posted May 5, 2017 (edited) 29 minutes ago, No Solid Ground said: I acknowledge a more expansive power than 'self' ... specifically, the patterns and processes of the body / mind, that exist innately embedded in, and at the effect of, the patterns and processes of terrestrial systems, that are embedded in, and at the effect of, exoterrestrial patterns and processes ... all interdependent and interrelational, existing as a dynamic whole. Nice creed. All these acknowledge You in return. Edited May 5, 2017 by I hide behind words 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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