seeder Posted August 21, 2016 #1 Share Posted August 21, 2016 Quote Gorilla Youngsters Seen Dismantling Poachers' Traps—A First "Very confident" four-year-olds outsmart hunters and protect their clan Just days after a poacher's snare had killed one of their own, two young mountain gorillas worked together Tuesday to find and destroy traps in their Rwandan forest home, according to conservationists on the scene. "This is absolutely the first time that we've seen juveniles doing that ... I don't know of any other reports in the world of juveniles destroying snares," said Veronica Vecellio, gorilla program coordinator at the Dian Fossey Gorilla Fund's Karisoke Research Center, located in the reserve where the event took place. "We are the largest database and observer of wild gorillas ... so I would be very surprised if somebody else has seen that," Vecellio added. http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/07/120719-young-gorillas-juvenile-traps-snares-rwanda-science-fossey/ 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Claire. Posted August 21, 2016 Popular Post #2 Share Posted August 21, 2016 Ingenious is an understatement. Love the teamwork as well. Those traps are hideously cruel and it bothers me to know how much that little one suffered when she was trapped in one. Next step for the gorillas is to set up snares for poachers. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlitterRose Posted August 21, 2016 #3 Share Posted August 21, 2016 1 hour ago, Clair said: Ingenious is an understatement. Love the teamwork as well. Those traps are hideously cruel and it bothers me to know how much that little one suffered when she was trapped in one. Next step for the gorillas is to set up snares for poachers. You beat me to it. That was my thought. Coming soon to poacher camps. Poachers wander off to find a spot to pee and snap! 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wickian Posted August 21, 2016 #4 Share Posted August 21, 2016 War has been one of the main driving forces of the evolution of our society, it looks like other primates exercise their ingenuity when faced with non-natural aggression as well. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seeder Posted August 21, 2016 Author #5 Share Posted August 21, 2016 (edited) give it time!!! Edited August 21, 2016 by seeder 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Unicorn Posted August 21, 2016 #6 Share Posted August 21, 2016 3 hours ago, seeder said: It really bothers me that even apes show more empathy to other creatures and to each other then most people do. They are on higher ground "spiritually" then the poachers. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted August 21, 2016 #7 Share Posted August 21, 2016 I guess we know what ImaginaryNumber's been up too. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TopToffee Posted August 21, 2016 #8 Share Posted August 21, 2016 (edited) Jesus i thought i was having an 'episode' till i read the date of the article.!.I thought id read it before.! Edited August 21, 2016 by TopToffee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonereader1 Posted August 21, 2016 #9 Share Posted August 21, 2016 This is actually really cool! It means that the young males understand what traps are. By being this intelligent to figure out they cause pain etc. It is a learned skill that genetically they will be able to pass along to their young and maybe even be able to teach others in their group. Wouldn't it be great if further down their lines they actually could avoid the traps/poachers altogether. WOW~ the thought of them being able to flourish with one less stumbling block from humanity is a wonderful thought! 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalojack Posted August 22, 2016 #10 Share Posted August 22, 2016 And so begins the dawn of the planet of the apes. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted August 22, 2016 #11 Share Posted August 22, 2016 22 hours ago, White Unicorn said: It really bothers me that even apes show more empathy to other creatures and to each other then most people do. They are on higher ground "spiritually" then the poachers. I don't know that is true. Most people are very empathetic to what gorillas go through at the hands of poachers. Poachers make up a small percentage of the human population. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Grey Posted August 22, 2016 #12 Share Posted August 22, 2016 22 hours ago, White Unicorn said: It really bothers me that even apes show more empathy to other creatures and to each other then most people do. They are on higher ground "spiritually" then the poachers. Stop. Gorillas don't lose sleep over anything they kill. Nor do deer, or bears, or groundhogs. You could fall and snap your neck 20 feet from a gorilla and it would keep eating leaves and swatting flies. Try to avoid anthropomorphizing as much as possible. It only clouds judgement when making the best decisions for a species survival. The poachers are doing the same thing the gorillas are - surviving. Fix the poverty and you'll fix the poaching. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire. Posted August 22, 2016 #13 Share Posted August 22, 2016 What surprised scientists most about this study was that the young gorillas exhibited a level of empathy for themselves and possibly, other animals. Rather than learn to avoid the snares, they learned (and worked together) to dismantle them. So whilst empathy may not be present when it comes to supper, it is evident elsewhere. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Unicorn Posted August 22, 2016 #14 Share Posted August 22, 2016 59 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said: Stop. Gorillas don't lose sleep over anything they kill. Nor do deer, or bears, or groundhogs. You could fall and snap your neck 20 feet from a gorilla and it would keep eating leaves and swatting flies. Try to avoid anthropomorphizing as much as possible. It only clouds judgement when making the best decisions for a species survival. The poachers are doing the same thing the gorillas are - surviving. Fix the poverty and you'll fix the poaching. I agree fix the poverty and it would stop poaching. By empathy I include method of kill. Most animals kill their game quickly. Traps do not and cause torture to the intended kill. Yes you could fall and break your neck and the gorilla would go about his way. People do the same thing when they see roadkill or a bird fly into a window. Accidents happen. Now if gorilla saw you still alive, I bet he would check you out if you were known to him as a gorilla friendly human. It's only a guess on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Unicorn Posted August 22, 2016 #15 Share Posted August 22, 2016 1 hour ago, Myles said: I don't know that is true. Most people are very empathetic to what gorillas go through at the hands of poachers. Poachers make up a small percentage of the human population. I guess I watch too much news when I said most people. People are going crazy and killing each other and seemingly lack any empathy what so ever to fellow human beings let alone animals. Media covers the minority of humanity more than the average person so you may be right. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJNYC Posted August 22, 2016 #16 Share Posted August 22, 2016 On 8/21/2016 at 8:46 AM, Clair said: Ingenious is an understatement. Love the teamwork as well. Those traps are hideously cruel and it bothers me to know how much that little one suffered when she was trapped in one. Next step for the gorillas is to set up snares for poachers. I was thinking that perhaps they will destroy the trap and then wait for the scum to return to check the trap. Then up to the gorillas what to do with garbage. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJNYC Posted August 22, 2016 #17 Share Posted August 22, 2016 1 hour ago, Dark_Grey said: Stop. Gorillas don't lose sleep over anything they kill. Nor do deer, or bears, or groundhogs. You could fall and snap your neck 20 feet from a gorilla and it would keep eating leaves and swatting flies. Try to avoid anthropomorphizing as much as possible. It only clouds judgement when making the best decisions for a species survival. The poachers are doing the same thing the gorillas are - surviving. Fix the poverty and you'll fix the poaching. Gorillas don't kill for "sport" or for body parts. Or for mystical medicines. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJNYC Posted August 22, 2016 #18 Share Posted August 22, 2016 (edited) 15 hours ago, Buffalojack said: And so begins the dawn of the planet of the apes. I was thinking the same thing. I'm cheering for the apes! Edited August 22, 2016 by MJNYC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFOwatcher Posted August 22, 2016 #19 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Perhaps the 'young' Gorillas are eating what is in the trap and destroying the trap in the process. It would be a nice and interesting thought if they were doing it to save animals but they could care less. Perhaps the 'young' Gorillas are getting caught in the traps but able to free themselves thereby destroying the trap. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claire. Posted August 22, 2016 #20 Share Posted August 22, 2016 3 minutes ago, UFOwatcher said: Perhaps the 'young' Gorillas are eating what is in the trap and destroying the trap in the process. It would be a nice and interesting thought if they were doing it to save animals but they could care less. Perhaps the 'young' Gorillas are getting caught in the traps but able to free themselves thereby destroying the trap. They were seen deliberately dismantling the traps and even had a coordinated system in place to do so. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted August 22, 2016 #21 Share Posted August 22, 2016 42 minutes ago, MJNYC said: I was thinking the same thing. I'm cheering for the apes! Apes don't really stand a chance. They are already relying on humans to survive. Of course it is other humans that are causing this threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted August 22, 2016 #22 Share Posted August 22, 2016 2 hours ago, Dark_Grey said: Stop. Gorillas don't lose sleep over anything they kill. Nor do deer, or bears, or groundhogs. You could fall and snap your neck 20 feet from a gorilla and it would keep eating leaves and swatting flies. Try to avoid anthropomorphizing as much as possible. It only clouds judgement when making the best decisions for a species survival. The poachers are doing the same thing the gorillas are - surviving. Fix the poverty and you'll fix the poaching. Speculative. Unless fixing the poverty means everyone has all they need or want. If China is willing to pay a high rate for body parts, someone will get them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Grey Posted August 23, 2016 #23 Share Posted August 23, 2016 22 hours ago, MJNYC said: Gorillas don't kill for "sport" or for body parts. Or for mystical medicines. Is that true? I never looked in to it. We know wolves do. A pack of wolves will decimate a herd of Elk and eat only a small portion - it's quite well documented. Dolphins will also "play" with their terrified food before eating it with their faces. I know it's hard for bleeding hearts to hear, but many intelligent animals delight in the slaughter. It's definitely not a uniquely human trait. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Grey Posted August 23, 2016 #24 Share Posted August 23, 2016 21 hours ago, Myles said: Speculative. Unless fixing the poverty means everyone has all they need or want. If China is willing to pay a high rate for body parts, someone will get them. Of course. There is a market for everything and therefore someone is always willing to find and sell. Fixing poverty to lower crime is not anything new, but it's often an overlooked element especially when it comes to poaching. Sure, there may be the odd guy with bent morals that just loves shooting elephants but from what I've seen/read the bounty that poachers receive is actually pretty minimal. Like, less than $200/animal minimal. It's impossible to find a job in that economy so when it comes down to your little kids starving or this innocent gorilla....sorry Kinjo. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myles Posted August 23, 2016 #25 Share Posted August 23, 2016 1 hour ago, Dark_Grey said: Of course. There is a market for everything and therefore someone is always willing to find and sell. Fixing poverty to lower crime is not anything new, but it's often an overlooked element especially when it comes to poaching. Sure, there may be the odd guy with bent morals that just loves shooting elephants but from what I've seen/read the bounty that poachers receive is actually pretty minimal. Like, less than $200/animal minimal. It's impossible to find a job in that economy so when it comes down to your little kids starving or this innocent gorilla....sorry Kinjo. Good post. Wouldn't their price go up if needed? Seems China is not willing to stop buying the tusks at any price. The poachers are getting paid little, but China is paying the middle men much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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