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Wanting


8th_wall

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2 hours ago, PsiSeeker said:

I like the idea that it is a process of intellectual bartering.  I wonder if there is a system one can follow that always results in the feeling of desire of want for any specific thing.  I think that's what the whole process of trigger, habit, reward is about.  Some say that we are are habits.  I think in this way I need to expand the problem.

So I think triggers exist and rewards exist but the habit itself is something that is built as a mind over matter thing.  

It's weird to me that something that is my feeling can be so mechanistically driven...

I disagree. A habit becomes a habit because of what the doing of the habit stimulates in my brain..

So scrap booking feels good creates that Dopamine thing. I want that feeling again hence I do some scrap booking (again) that is where my reward (dopamine)  creates my habit.

Mind over matter,  for me,  is when I don't want to( because I feel /experience no 'reward' after doing it) do something hence forcing my thoughts to be positive as to 'barter' myself.into doing it. 

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Many years ago I knew a man that wanted a rolls royce,he did ont have the money to buy one so he made multiple copies of a picture of the one in particular that he wanted and placed them in places where he would see them all the time. both side of his sunvisor, the horn on the steering wheel, the inside cover of his breifcase, everywhere that he would normally look in his car, office and home. He was single so being distracted from his want was not an issue,and after 2 years he was able to pay cash for it and did. he denied himself other pleasures and kept a tight budget in order to achieve his goal.

 We all have needs,food, home, pay our way, I need to eat,I want a steak with baked potatoe and veggies, but can afford a cheese burger and fries, to my body it makes no such difference all it wants is fuel.If I eat the burger and fries my body is satisfied my budget is held and I can pay for my car and my house. I keep things simple, I eat because it is a requirement,because I eat alone most of the time and in my vehicle I don't necessarily care what I eat so long as my belly is happy and my body functions at peak. I cook my meals and make them flavorful but do not find that I have a desire to eat for me it is a function that I satisfy. 

 I need a car or vehicle for work,do I have to spend 50-70 thousand to satisfy that requirement, no,I can build a vehicle that will satisfy my need and perform equally as well and be presentable. What I want is to achieve my end so I do what I must in order to do so and do not feel burdened by my choices, after all I don't need to compete with anyone,I compete with myself because I am a worthy opponent and it is my desire to better myself so I challenge myself continually. I'm not a doctor or a shrink so I don't spend a whole lot of time trying to cure imaginary ailments that i DON'T HAVE, I set a goal and focus on it. I am confident in who I am, in my youth I questioned and assessed who I am and why I do the things I do and came to the conclusion that if it wasn't illegal, immoral and wasn't coming out of anyone but my pocket then let's get her done, and don't get in my way. And yes I am single, mostly because it is time efficient as I don't have to spend time reasoning and justifying something with someone who neither understands or invests in my goals. :D

jmccr8

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7 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

I suppose the only thing that I really want is to be a positive influence on those who need me and want to be a part of my life. :)

jmccr8

If you added your desire for world peace, you might be a Miss World contestant !

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I am no beauty queen,not even a pretty boy and I am not so foolish as to believe that there will be world peace especially after reading through this forum.:lol:

jmccr8

Edited by jmccr8
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11 hours ago, PsiSeeker said:

The capacity to observe the self from a different reference frame is all that's occurring.

We are in agreement.  I can't resolve this paradox, though:  self  exists because self observes itself.  I can only make sense of this if I remove time as a part of the system.  Otherwise, there is point in time before which self didn't exist to observe itself, and hence self could never exist.  Without time, however, cause and effect in the thermodynamic sense don't apply.

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2 hours ago, OptimisticSkeptic said:

We are in agreement.  I can't resolve this paradox, though:  self  exists because self observes itself.  I can only make sense of this if I remove time as a part of the system.  Otherwise, there is point in time before which self didn't exist to observe itself, and hence self could never exist.  Without time, however, cause and effect in the thermodynamic sense don't apply.

I don't get that. The self observes itself.

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On 9/29/2016 at 2:26 PM, Debstermania said:

I disagree. A habit becomes a habit because of what the doing of the habit stimulates in my brain..

So scrap booking feels good creates that Dopamine thing. I want that feeling again hence I do some scrap booking (again) that is where my reward (dopamine)  creates my habit.

Mind over matter,  for me,  is when I don't want to( because I feel /experience no 'reward' after doing it) do something hence forcing my thoughts to be positive as to 'barter' myself.into doing it. 

Something has to exist before dopamine could have taken place.  That's what the reward is.  The dopamine fix.  A doing becomes habitual because it has a trigger and a reward before and after it.  That's how I understand habits anyway.

I don't know if all habits need necessarily have a reward to them.  They must have triggers certainly.  Otherwise we would just be on perpetual auto pilot.

How do you force your thoughts to be positive?  I find it difficult altering my feeling state at the best of times.  I do it myself sometimes.  There must exist a formula to make yourself want to do something in the feeling sense.  Something that you don't want to do.  To turn it into a habit.  Again, I think this is where understanding triggers comes in handy.  A trigger stimulated the doing which is succeeded by the reward.  Are we really just after the reward?  The doing itself doesn't even really matter?  You could trick yourself into doing anything as long as you finished it with a reward of some kind?  It seems to me that the doing itself can be a reward in and of itself perhaps.  Well, certainly.

I don't know, I don't think I understand how habits work now.

19 hours ago, OptimisticSkeptic said:

We are in agreement.  I can't resolve this paradox, though:  self  exists because self observes itself.  I can only make sense of this if I remove time as a part of the system.  Otherwise, there is point in time before which self didn't exist to observe itself, and hence self could never exist.  Without time, however, cause and effect in the thermodynamic sense don't apply.

What becomes even more confusing is if you consider the fact that every physical particle in your body is replaced every 10 years and you still technically remain the same.  What this suggests is that every particle could be gradually replaced by every particle that makes up some other person and you would essentially become that person without losing sense of yourself.  Is another person then really just another version of yourself?

What precisely is the self if it is not physical (every atom replaced yet still the same self)?  This sort of thinking would seem to say that whatever self is it transcends what we deem physical.  Whatever laws we apply to physical systems then need not necessarily apply to our self system.  I think the self is substrate independent.  How "waves" are independent from the bodies they occupy.  There is no "wave" per se.  The self in this way I believe is illusory depending on your frame of perspective.

I don't know of the self exists due to observance alone but I think I see what you're suggesting.  I have no answer for that recursive puzzle.  It's infinite.  As you say, you'd need to remove time out of the system or, I think, make time infinite.  So things converge or diverge.  I don't think the relative nature of time allows for this however.  I believe that time moves exactly the same for the observer in all frames of reference.  I think it's really just space itself from a different perspective.  I am no physicist though... 

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