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North Korea Fires Missile Towards Japan


Claire.

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North Korea fires submarine-launched ballistic missile toward Japan.

North Korea fired a submarine-launched missile on Wednesday that flew about 500 km (311 miles) toward Japan, a show of improving technological capability for the isolated country that has conducted a series of launches in defiance of UN sanctions.

Read more: Reuters

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It's a bit like having a psycho neighbor who plays with guns.  Eventually this regime will have to be dealt with because once they perfect sub launching of nuclear capable missiles they can END the US.  Making half the Korean peninsula permanently dark would do little good after 90% of Americans are sentenced to death from an EMP strike.  Hopefully there is a plan to "spread the wealth" if such an attack occurs here.  Fair is fair, eh?

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EMP strikes against America are not as large a threat as current sources make them out to be.  Since the effects of EMPs from nuclear detonations were known from about 1950 when we accidentally EMPed Hawaii there are a ton of safeguards in place.  It would still do damage but instead of country ending damage, since all military, government, and essential electronics are EMP hardened already, it would be more of annoyance damage that would probably cost a few hundred million to a few billion in damage.  Most of the damage done would just be replacing batteries for everything and probably corrupted hard drives closer to the detonation point.

The main danger from an EMP attack isn't that it's overly destructive but that for a few hours there would be a lot of confusion and disorder as everything is brought back online.  Unless North Korea would be able to deliver a second country ending knock out punch, like how it was feared the USSR would fire off a nuclear salvo during that small window off confusion, there isn't much of a threat from an EMP.

I do agree that North Korea will ultimately need to be dealt with but the biggest issue is that there is no good way to do it.  First there is the issue that North Korea has almost all its artillery and missiles aimed at the South Korean capital so any strike would end up with Seoul being either heavily damaged at best to leveled at worse in a matter of hours.  With Seoul having a large population millions of civilians would die/be injured before the evacuation could be finished.  Could evacuate the city before the start of any conflict but that would just alert North Korea to immedent conflict.  

Second there is the problem with what to do with the North Korean population during and after any war.  With the indocteration that the North Korean government population does on its population any conflict would almost certainly turn into a blood bath the west wouldn't stomach for long.  It wouldn't be western or south Korean soldiers dieing but countless north Koreans.  Even if only 10%, but it would probably be much higher, of the population fought to the death to repel the invaders on orders from Kim Jong Un it would still be a massacre.  There would be footage of a modern army devastating what would probably be a largely unordered hostile civilian mob on multiple engagements which would quickly turn the west off of the war.  Having a few thousand civilian casualties in over a decade of war has caused outrage, just imagine what a few hundred thousand in a few days would cause.

Then after the war with such an indocteration population you couldn't just integrate them quickly if at all.  Basically the whole Northern half of Korea would need to be ran as a giant military prison for years at minimum to most likely decades as attempts would be made to undo all of the deeply ingrained indocteration.  The cost of which would be staggering, let alone the fact they would probably remain hostile for awhile causing a low level insurgency for most of the time.

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Weak, struggling, pathetic communist countries do the west more good than harm by being so f-ed up. I suspect we really don't want Kim to slip up and do something stupid, then we'd have to dust the world's best argument against communism AND monarchy rule the world has. The first generation builds it, the second grows it and the third screws it all up. 

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On 8/24/2016 at 2:04 AM, and then said:

Eventually this regime will have to be dealt with because once they perfect sub launching of nuclear capable missiles they can END the US.

No, not ever.  You overestimate the ability of the Norks, even in the long-term, and vastly underestimate the ability of the US.

On 8/24/2016 at 2:04 AM, and then said:

90% of Americans are sentenced to death from an EMP strike.

Won't happen either.  An EMP strike would have to cripple the entire US.  From coast to coast, to even come close to kililng 90% of all Americans.  That's sensationalism on your part.  You know better than that.

The Norks are a threat, but they are nothing near a world-shaking threat.  They'll have to contend with the largest and most powerful navy the world has ever seen.  They'll have to contend with the allies of the US that sit near them.  Heck, they'll have to contend with some of our enemies that are very interested in the Norks not getting anywhere close to civilization-ending super-villains.

 

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1 hour ago, Thorvir Hrothgaard said:

No, not ever.  You overestimate the ability of the Norks, even in the long-term, and vastly underestimate the ability of the US.

Won't happen either.  An EMP strike would have to cripple the entire US.  From coast to coast, to even come close to kililng 90% of all Americans.  That's sensationalism on your part.  You know better than that.

The Norks are a threat, but they are nothing near a world-shaking threat.  They'll have to contend with the largest and most powerful navy the world has ever seen.  They'll have to contend with the allies of the US that sit near them.  Heck, they'll have to contend with some of our enemies that are very interested in the Norks not getting anywhere close to civilization-ending super-villains.

 

The data is out there TH.  I daresay that 20 years ago the idea that less than a platoon sized element of soldiers with crude weapons could wreck our economy and kill nearly 3000 people would have seemed ludicrous as well.  A scud off a foreign flagged container ship that is heading into NY or San Diego would do nearly incalculable damage because we have made NO attempt to harden our grid or electronics.  Believe what you like.  I am not trying to insult our military.  I am pointing out what the facts are on the ground right now.  http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/?s=emp+threats

The grid is in deplorable shape - just like much of our other, vital infrastructure.  A strike a couple hundred miles up over the east coast would start a cascade of failures that would minimum wreck the economy and maximum lead to millions of dead.  We cannot survive without electricity for any extended period of time.  Sure, the perps would get nuked in answer but that would hardly matter to those here dying from starvation, cold or heat.  The fat boy with delusions of grandeur might do it or it could be an ayatollah having a vision about doing in the great satan.  This country is vulnerable in ways it has never been before and too many citizens think we are invincible, even after 9-11.  Mistakes and miscalculations happen and the margin for error on this issue is razor thin.

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Oh no worries. Trump's gonna be buddies with them. They'll get South Korea under him, too. 

Then, asked by The New York Times whether he would withdraw U.S. forces from South Korea if it did not increase its payments to the U.S., he said, “Yes, I would. I would not do so happily, but I would be willing to do it… We cannot afford to be losing vast amounts of billions of dollars on all of this.”

And finally he told Reuters that he would be willing to sit down one on one with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, declaring, “I would speak to him, I would have no problem speaking to him.”

So add North Korea to China and Russia on the list of American adversaries warming to the idea of President Trump.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjUtoL7seTOAhVGMSYKHUoRD6wQFggjMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newsweek.com%2Fwhy-does-kim-jong-un-want-trump-become-president-465891&usg=AFQjCNE_7RaDZl3D4cH7FSyxetNSlD7RfQ

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Never overestimate North Korea.

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1 hour ago, Thorvir Hrothgaard said:

Never overestimate North Korea.

The only way Kimmy can hold on to his dictatorship is through a combination of fear and empowerment. Fear in that he has to maintain a constant sense of imminent threat from the evil outside world; empowerment through regular displays of military power (the bigger and flashier, the better). It's a deliberate strategy. Not only does it achieve it's internal objective(s), It also attracts international attention which fuels Kimmy's narcissism. It's that narcissism, fueled by the dopamine rush from his god-like status that could propel him to take things a tad too far. That, in some ways. might be a good thing because any excuse to take that pudgy little pest out is a good one.

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Having just returned from a visit to South Korea to see my daughter who lives there, I can tell you that no-one there seems to give a crap about the North. I think they actually are a bit complacent or feel that being in Seoul will mean a quick death anyway.

2 days before we flew over Kimmy released a statement saying South Korea was releasing poisonous snakes into the North to scare his soldiers, it's just crazy. I told my daughter and she said they hadn't heard that story yet it made it onto the main news in Australia.

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Huh. When I visited South Korea a few years ago, I was impressed at how the subway systems all doubled as bomb shelters and the monitors interspersed commercials with training vids for the emergency equipment.

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On 8/30/2016 at 9:51 AM, Tia said:

Having just returned from a visit to South Korea to see my daughter who lives there, I can tell you that no-one there seems to give a crap about the North. I think they actually are a bit complacent or feel that being in Seoul will mean a quick death anyway.

They are wrong about Seoul being a quick death.  That's just sensationalism.  But while I scoff at the Norks, and deservedly so, I won't blow off that they can cause some quick, short-term damage before they are erased as a country.

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On 29 August 2016 at 1:15 AM, ChaosRose said:

Oh no worries. Trump's gonna be buddies with them. They'll get South Korea under him, too. 

Then, asked by The New York Times whether he would withdraw U.S. forces from South Korea if it did not increase its payments to the U.S., he said, “Yes, I would. I would not do so happily, but I would be willing to do it… We cannot afford to be losing vast amounts of billions of dollars on all of this.”

And finally he told Reuters that he would be willing to sit down one on one with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, declaring, “I would speak to him, I would have no problem speaking to him.”

So add North Korea to China and Russia on the list of American adversaries warming to the idea of President Trump.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjUtoL7seTOAhVGMSYKHUoRD6wQFggjMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newsweek.com%2Fwhy-does-kim-jong-un-want-trump-become-president-465891&usg=AFQjCNE_7RaDZl3D4cH7FSyxetNSlD7RfQ

Yes, heaven forbid a politician actually engage in politics rather than "drawing lines in the sand" and rhetoric.

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Heh .. if Trump actually pulls that one off it might even eclipse Nixon's paving the way for Red China's place into the modern World ...

~

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aquatus1, they still run the videos but only every so often and a lot are based on fires, actually I think that was the only one I did see. On the actual platforms they do have some supplies and gas masks but not many at all.

All the guys going through their military training on leave must carry their backpacks with them which I assume would include gas masks etc.

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On 29 August 2016 at 1:15 AM, ChaosRose said:

Oh no worries. Trump's gonna be buddies with them. They'll get South Korea under him, too. 

Then, asked by The New York Times whether he would withdraw U.S. forces from South Korea if it did not increase its payments to the U.S., he said, “Yes, I would. I would not do so happily, but I would be willing to do it… We cannot afford to be losing vast amounts of billions of dollars on all of this.”

And finally he told Reuters that he would be willing to sit down one on one with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, declaring, “I would speak to him, I would have no problem speaking to him.”

So add North Korea to China and Russia on the list of American adversaries warming to the idea of President Trump.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjUtoL7seTOAhVGMSYKHUoRD6wQFggjMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.newsweek.com%2Fwhy-does-kim-jong-un-want-trump-become-president-465891&usg=AFQjCNE_7RaDZl3D4cH7FSyxetNSlD7RfQ

Well Trump probably admires the leaders of Russia, China and North Korea for managing to get 100% of the democratic vote. 

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The latest: North Korea fires three ballistic missiles as G20 leaders meet in China. Guess Kimmy was upset he wasn't invited.

North Korea fired three ballistic missiles into the sea off its east coast on Monday, South Korea's military said, as the leaders of the Group of 20 major economies held a summit in China, the North's main diplomatic ally. The missiles were fired from a region south of the capital Pyongyang just after noon local time (0300 GMT) and flew about 1,000 km (600 miles), hitting Japan's air defense identification zone, the South's Office of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said.

"We are still analyzing details but this is a grave threat to our nation's security, and we express deep concern," the Japan Defence Ministry said in a statement.

The missile launches were the latest in a series of launches by the isolated North this year in violation of U.N. Security Council resolutions, supported by China, that ban all ballistic missile-related activities by the North.

Read more: Reuters

 

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Oh I thought he was ill or jong il ? obviously his father.

Seems like China would doing something even behind the scenes with this long undone one. 

At first glance

I thought Kirby said IRONIC

" 'Our commitment to the defense of our allies in the face of these threats remains ironclad,' Kirby added in a reference to U.S. treaty allies South Korea and Japan."

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On 8/31/2016 at 9:35 AM, Thorvir Hrothgaard said:

They are wrong about Seoul being a quick death.  That's just sensationalism.  But while I scoff at the Norks, and deservedly so, I won't blow off that they can cause some quick, short-term damage before they are erased as a country.

TH do you believe they have nukes?  I think they probably do have a few even if they are crude.  The question is whether they have mastered mounting them on ballistic missiles.  Even a Scud type could carry one into Seoul.  Short of that, I agree that destroying Seoul is unlikely.  As soon as those 13,000 artillery tubes began firing our combined air power would begin removing all comms and coordination between their forces and begin devastating those forces where they stood.  Many South Koreans would perish but the city would not be destroyed.  The biggest question is whether China would allow a Western friendly nation to share a border with them.  NK is a pet dog that China uses to harass their enemies.  The only way NK goes away without real problems for us is if their pudgy nut job leader decides to bite the hand that feeds him.  China would smack them down quick in that case.

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4 hours ago, and then said:

TH do you believe they have nukes?  I think they probably do have a few even if they are crude.

They have, allegedly, tested some, and even those didn't seem to be too much of a threat.  But, I think they have the potential to have nukes, and I'm not worried, because NK doesn't exist in a vacuum, doesn't exist with other countries that don't have the means to defend themselves.  And one single nuke fired will be disastrous for NK, ultimately so.

Quote

 The question is whether they have mastered mounting them on ballistic missiles.

Doesn't appear that they have.

Quote

Even a Scud type could carry one into Seoul.  Short of that, I agree that destroying Seoul is unlikely.  As soon as those 13,000 artillery tubes began firing our combined air power would begin removing all comms and coordination between their forces and begin devastating those forces where they stood.  Many South Koreans would perish but the city would not be destroyed.

I completely agree with that, and I'll even add that the claim of 13,000 artillery pieces aim at Seoul is most probably sensationalized.  And even if the number actually is near 13,000, how many are operation, and how many can actually do any damage?

Quote

The biggest question is whether China would allow a Western friendly nation to share a border with them.  NK is a pet dog that China uses to harass their enemies.  The only way NK goes away without real problems for us is if their pudgy nut job leader decides to bite the hand that feeds him.  China would smack them down quick in that case.

There you go, NK isn't the problem, China is.  NK is nothing more than a comical, Saturday-morning cartoon villain.  I will continue to scoff at them until they show me otherwise.

Edited by Thorvir Hrothgaard
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