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Reports Show US Unable to Curb Iraq Militias


Claire.

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Massacre reports show U.S. inability to curb Iraq militias.

Shi’ite militias in Iraq detained, tortured and abused far more Sunni civilians during the American-backed capture of the town of Falluja in June than U.S. officials have publicly acknowledged, Reuters has found. More than 700 Sunni men and boys are still missing more than two months after the Islamic State stronghold fell. The abuses occurred despite U.S. efforts to restrict the militias' role in the operation, including threatening to withdraw American air support, according to U.S. and Iraqi officials.

Read more: Reuters Special Report

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US foreign police is the living embodiment of the facepalm.  

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On 24 August 2016 at 1:59 PM, Clair said:

Massacre reports show U.S. inability to curb Iraq militias.

Shi’ite militias in Iraq detained, tortured and abused far more Sunni civilians during the American-backed capture of the town of Falluja in June than U.S. officials have publicly acknowledged, Reuters has found. More than 700 Sunni men and boys are still missing more than two months after the Islamic State stronghold fell. The abuses occurred despite U.S. efforts to restrict the militias' role in the operation, including threatening to withdraw American air support, according to U.S. and Iraqi officials.

Read more: Reuters Special Report

Great read Clair. It makes me think of the time when Saddam was in power in Iraq and all the abuse the Shia majority where subjected to under the yoke of their Sunni overlords. Not suggesting its right but reminds me of that adage 'What goes around comes around.'

Edited by Leto_loves_melange
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On 8/23/2016 at 11:59 PM, Clair said:

Massacre reports show U.S. inability to curb Iraq militias.

Shi’ite militias in Iraq detained, tortured and abused far more Sunni civilians during the American-backed capture of the town of Falluja in June than U.S. officials have publicly acknowledged, Reuters has found. More than 700 Sunni men and boys are still missing more than two months after the Islamic State stronghold fell. The abuses occurred despite U.S. efforts to restrict the militias' role in the operation, including threatening to withdraw American air support, according to U.S. and Iraqi officials.

Read more: Reuters Special Report

This is the kind of half-assed stuff I complain about.  We're doing too little.  Either don't do anything, let them kill each other, or go in and do it right the first time around.

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On 24 August 2016 at 2:15 PM, Farmer77 said:

US foreign police is the living embodiment of the facepalm.  

Well that what happens when the U.S. and the coalition of the willing decided that Saddam should go with out giving thought to who or what would replace him and still keep the ethnic and religious minorities in place and respectful of the central government. It certainly was amateur hour at the Whitehouse and the state department the day they decided that "Iraq" was ready for democracy and the rule of law. 

Maybe Iraq should be abolished and 3 separate country's be formed in its place, what do you think?

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10 hours ago, Leto_loves_melange said:

Well that what happens when the U.S. and the coalition of the willing decided that Saddam should go with out giving thought to who or what would replace him and still keep the ethnic and religious minorities in place and respectful of the central government. It certainly was amateur hour at the Whitehouse and the state department the day they decided that "Iraq" was ready for democracy and the rule of law. 

Maybe Iraq should be abolished and 3 separate country's be formed in its place, what do you think?

I think that unless another strong man dictatorship crushes all opposition, that is exactly the future the Iraqis have in store.  At some point Iran may provide the strong man though.

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11 hours ago, and then said:

I think that unless another strong man dictatorship crushes all opposition, that is exactly the future the Iraqis have in store.  At some point Iran may provide the strong man though.

You know mate, i think that if it was only so easy to find a strongman acceptable to all the players in the region then Iraq and Syria could live in relative peace and not disintegrate. But for such a thing to happen would surely mean war, drawing in peripheral country's like Russia, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Kurds and even the U.S. 

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It's pretty sad that after 4000+ American casualties, 500,000-1 million dead Iraqis, and a trillion in debt, we are wishing that things were like they were with Saddam.

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14 minutes ago, Gromdor said:

It's pretty sad that after 4000+ American casualties, 500,000-1 million dead Iraqis, and a trillion in debt, we are wishing that things were like they were with Saddam.

And sadder still that it could have been a better outcome.  Not perfect of course since you cannot force people who have hated each other for generations to coexist without some degree of coercion, but had a large foot print of US troops been left for a few extra years it might have given time for a more equitable arrangement.  ISIS would have only been just one more militia among many and just as feckless.  There can be no doubt that Obama's withdrawal led to ISIS becoming the strong, well funded entity that has brutalized the region.  They gained huge parts of Iraq along with our gear and cash and it was basically FREE.  Even a division could have made the difference.  Hell, even a regiment might have done the job with air power.

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On 8/27/2016 at 1:07 AM, Leto_loves_melange said:

Well that what happens when the U.S. and the coalition of the willing decided that Saddam should go with out giving thought to who or what would replace him and still keep the ethnic and religious minorities in place and respectful of the central government. It certainly was amateur hour at the Whitehouse and the state department the day they decided that "Iraq" was ready for democracy and the rule of law. 

Saddam did have to go but Iraq's army should've stayed. I believe that was the biggest screw up; the absolute destruction of their army. Part of the thinking was that we had to show the world who's boss (post cold war) and to prove that we didn't suffer from Vietnam syndrome. 

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9 hours ago, and then said:

And sadder still that it could have been a better outcome.  Not perfect of course since you cannot force people who have hated each other for generations to coexist without some degree of coercion, but had a large foot print of US troops been left for a few extra years it might have given time for a more equitable arrangement.  ISIS would have only been just one more militia among many and just as feckless.  There can be no doubt that Obama's withdrawal led to ISIS becoming the strong, well funded entity that has brutalized the region.  They gained huge parts of Iraq along with our gear and cash and it was basically FREE.  Even a division could have made the difference.  Hell, even a regiment might have done the job with air power.

Disbanding the Iraqi Army was a huge mistake. The new one has proven incapable of defending the country without the Shi'a millitias and the U.S.military. That's not something U.S. taxpayers should have to put up with indefinitly IMO. Not only that but we now know for a fact that some in the ISIL top leadership were former commenders and officiers in Saddam's military! What a mess really.

[LINK] How The 'Catastrophic' decision to Disband Saddam's Military Helped Fuel The Rise Of ISIL

Edited by TruthSeeker_
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21 hours ago, internetperson said:

Saddam did have to go but Iraq's army should've stayed. I believe that was the biggest screw up; the absolute destruction of their army. Part of the thinking was that we had to show the world who's boss (post cold war) and to prove that we didn't suffer from Vietnam syndrome. 

Saddam and his family were evil b******* that deservedly got removed but really how hard could it have been to find another more agreeable strongman to take over from Saddam. You mentioned the disintegration of the Iraqi army which led to the formation of Islamic State. Not just man power but also equipment. 

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On 8/29/2016 at 1:48 AM, Gromdor said:

It's pretty sad that after 4000+ American casualties, 500,000-1 million dead Iraqis, and a trillion in debt, we are wishing that things were like they were with Saddam.

The UN should honor you with a special Plaque of Distinction just for stating that ...

~

 

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  It seems there will always  this war between the Shi’ites and Sunnis  in the middle east .  Its like should any other nation try and step in to bring the peace, is just seems like failure is all the way around.

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 8/24/2016 at 1:59 PM, Clair said:

Massacre reports show U.S. inability to curb Iraq militias.

Shi’ite militias in Iraq detained, tortured and abused far more Sunni civilians during the American-backed capture of the town of Falluja in June than U.S. officials have publicly acknowledged, Reuters has found. More than 700 Sunni men and boys are still missing more than two months after the Islamic State stronghold fell. The abuses occurred despite U.S. efforts to restrict the militias' role in the operation, including threatening to withdraw American air support, according to U.S. and Iraqi officials.

Read more: Reuters Special Report

Again and again we've seen the US instil puppet Govts around the world with dictators and yes-men friendly to their own interest and agenda.  They coerced, supported, infiltrated, influenced, deceived and bullied their way into forcing populations to accept murderers as their leaders under the banner of bringing Democracy, Prosperity and Freedom to a suffering and underprivileged population and every single time it's ended in failure and bloodshed.  Some times the overthrown were popular local figures who had only the interest of their people at heart (Iran, Chile and some Central American countries come to mind).  Panama, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Guatemala, Iran before the Islamic revolution, Chile, Cuba before Castro, Afghanistan post Taliban, Iraq post Saddam, just to name a few.  Up to WWII the US appeared to want to take on the role of world policeman by fighting and opposing dangerous doctrine's such as Fascism, Nazism and Communism the Soviet way, which they did.  After WWII, the CIA was formed to protect the security of it's nationals through an aggressive foreign policy, with it's main purpose to keep Communism down and return lucrative gains for the Govt through oil, weapons, drugs etc.  Now the enemy is Islam.

How does this relate to the thread?  Self explanatory from the article,

"There now are more than 30 Shi’ite militias whose members receive government salaries. The major groups have government posts and parliament seats.  Their might has also been enhanced by some of the more than $20 billion in military hardware the United States has sold or given to Iraq since 2005."

They've instilled puppets in power, bloodshed and the US is making lucrative gains.  The saga continues.

Edited by Black Red Devil
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Does somebody have the super power blues again?  Wishing for an America (spit) free world?  Google SOROS funded NGO's and volunteer!  Give 'til it hurts!  Speak, continue to write, knock on doors to help you relax and find like minded people.  Between the Uber Left, the globalists and fundamental Islamist types, maybe you can gain your heart's desire some day not too far down the road.  I'd ask who you will blame if the world's problems continued apace after Americans are properly humbled - yeah, I know, not ALL  Americans (sounds kind of familiar) just anyone who is part of the government or approves of it. :) But I already know.  Our sins are so egregious - unprecedented in history - that the world won't recover for centuries so no need to worry about blaming anyone else in your lifetime.  I've watched this from you for so long that I don't even get offended any longer.  In fact I actually have accepted that my country's leaders have done enough wrong in the world in the last couple of decades that a lot of criticism is just.  But not ALL of it.  And not the brush of blame so broad that it covers the US with the guilt for all the world's turmoil, chaos and evil.  People who generalize so broadly betray their personal biases and even hatreds.  So seriously guy, either go to work to slay the Eagle or get over yourself!  :w00t:  I suspect that if the US were to fall from power tomorrow, your neighbors down south would be speaking Chinese and LIKING it in a few decades.  Not because of the economic opportunities necessarily but because you have no other choice.  Oh wait, I forgot, NO other world power would ever act the way America has.....

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26 minutes ago, and then said:

Does somebody have the super power blues again?  Wishing for an America (spit) free world?  Google SOROS funded NGO's and volunteer!  Give 'til it hurts!  Speak, continue to write, knock on doors to help you relax and find like minded people.  Between the Uber Left, the globalists and fundamental Islamist types, maybe you can gain your heart's desire some day not too far down the road.  I'd ask who you will blame if the world's problems continued apace after Americans are properly humbled - yeah, I know, not ALL  Americans (sounds kind of familiar) just anyone who is part of the government or approves of it. :) But I already know.  Our sins are so egregious - unprecedented in history - that the world won't recover for centuries so no need to worry about blaming anyone else in your lifetime.  I've watched this from you for so long that I don't even get offended any longer.  In fact I actually have accepted that my country's leaders have done enough wrong in the world in the last couple of decades that a lot of criticism is just.  But not ALL of it.  And not the brush of blame so broad that it covers the US with the guilt for all the world's turmoil, chaos and evil.  People who generalize so broadly betray their personal biases and even hatreds.  So seriously guy, either go to work to slay the Eagle or get over yourself!  :w00t:  I suspect that if the US were to fall from power tomorrow, your neighbors down south would be speaking Chinese and LIKING it in a few decades.  Not because of the economic opportunities necessarily but because you have no other choice.  Oh wait, I forgot, NO other world power would ever act the way America has.....

So funny and first price for the rant of the week!  I'm waiting for the Viking guy to materialise out of nowhere and give you a "like". 

Basically, the only logical thing you've mentioned is the part highlighted in bold and you can thank the international posters on these boards for telling you how things truly are because you and other Americans have become so indoctrinated into a belief system that questioning authorities and Govt have you believe is either criminal, unpatriotic or even worse....a LIBERAL (COMMUNIST).  But the real brain twister is making you all believe the power is in your hands because you have the second amendment and the Right to bear arms against this Govt that has you wrapped around their little finger. 

Anyway, not my problem.  What I do have a problem with instead is when your Govt goes around the world invading countries, overthrowing and influencing foreign sovereign states and deceiving everyone into believing their cause was righteous.  The human race has survived the fall of the Roman Empire, the Black Death, Napoleon, Hitler and Obama.  I'm sure if the US falls from power tomorrow the world will still go around, the sun rise and the stars shine at night buddy. 

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On Monday, August 29, 2016 at 4:53 PM, Silver_Lyre said:

Saddam and his family were evil b******* that deservedly got removed but really how hard could it have been to find another more agreeable strongman to take over from Saddam. You mentioned the disintegration of the Iraqi army which led to the formation of Islamic State. Not just man power but also equipment. 

Yeah saddam was a pile of ****. 

When people argue about the intentions,results and process of the war thats a justified thing to al debate over.

I hate when people try to downplay how bad saddam was

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When people simply can not and will not get along, when all they desire is to kill one another, when there is absolutely no way to create tolerance, a huge problem arises. Basically, only a brutal dictator or a brutal oligarchy (often based on a brutal version of religion) is able to rise up and seize power. The underlying issue is the total and absolute lack of tolerance and the complete refusal to coexist with others. Basically, there's an ideological problem that goes back centuries that precludes these people being able to live in peace without literally being forced/cowed to do so.

The United States was stupid in thinking that freeing them from a dictator would fix everything...it just caused an eruption of this destructive/hateful/barbaric ideology that has now spread (via terrorism) out into the world at large. The large numbers of migrants will bring this ideology with them as they move into the rest of the world. It's time to be aware of what's taking place and take precautions. Sitting around the campfire and singing kumbaya with people who desire your complete and absolute destruction is not a smart move.

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Kumbaya ... hold my hand ...

~

Quote

 

Uganda: How the West brought Idi Amin to power

***

US support

Beginning with his purges of the army, later extending them to those who had carried out the purges, the ferocity and cruelty of Amin's rule increased steadily—most of it performed by the dreaded Public Safety Unit, the State Research Centre and various other bodies. These received training assistance and supplies from Britain and the US.

In July 1978, the US columnist Jack Anderson revealed that 10 of Amin's henchmen from the Public Safety Unit were trained at the International Police Academy in the exclusive Washington suburb of Georgetown. The CIA-run academy was responsible for training police officers from all over the world until its closure in 1975.

Three of the Ugandans continued their studies at a graduate school, also run by the CIA, called the International Police Services Inc. Shortly after the Amin coup, the CIA had one full-time police instructor stationed in Uganda. Controversy raged in the United States in the use of equipment sold to Uganda. Twelve of these were police helicopter pilots for American Bell helicopters that had been delivered in 1973.

 

~

Quote


Recalling Pol Pot's Terror, but Forgetting His Backers

by John Pilger

***

Unclassified CIA files leave little doubt that the bombing was the catalyst for Pol Pot's fanatics, who, before the inferno, had only minority support. Now, a stricken people rallied to them. In Panh's film, a torturer refers to the bombing as his reason for joining "the maquis": the Khmer Rouge. What Nixon and Kissinger began, Pol Pot completed. And having been driven out by the Vietnamese, who came from the wrong side of the cold war, the Khmer Rouge were restored in Thailand by the Reagan administration, assisted by the Thatcher government, who invented a "coalition" to provide the cover for America's continuing war against Vietnam.

***

 

 

~

 

Quote

 

From Pol Pot to ISIS: “Anything that flies on everything that moves”

8 October 2014

~


 

~

 

Quote

 

Regime Change: How the CIA put Saddam's Party in Power

From Richard Sanders, 24 October 2002

 

 

  • Hartford hwp  link

~

Someone's crying, Oh  kumbaya ....

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I'm not saying that the western nations didn't play right into this mess...and many times were equally at fault...heck, we're the idiots that toppled Saddam and caused the rise of terrorism!

No, what I'm saying is that we need to see the situation for what it is and start behaving better (much better). We need to support modern 21st century thinking that includes tolerance for others and we need engage in protection for ourselves at the same time.

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21 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

Yeah saddam was a pile of ****. 

When people argue about the intentions,results and process of the war thats a justified thing to al debate over.

I hate when people try to downplay how bad saddam was

Yeah the intentions of GW1 and GW2 were good but the results were far from perfect. Pity that democracy didn't take root in Iraq... for everyone. 

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