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Round Towers of Ireland? What were they for?


Charles K

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I've extensively toured the Round Towers in Ireland!

Do not know what they were for, quite yet, but very curious to hear about people's ideas, theories?

I did a quick search to look for a topic to see if this had been covered or not, am not sure, could not find much recent info. 

Here are some possibilities:

1) Astronomy?

2) Religion?

3) Belfry?

4) Worship?

5) Defence, watchtower?

7) Tomb?

8) Chapel Adjunct?

9) Thoughtful contemplation and isolation?

10) Prison?

11) Reliquary? (I like this one, but it's not the whole story!)

12) Something else?

The mystery is why has more effort seemingly been put into the belfry than the church adjoining?

 

Charles.

 

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I seem to recall something, maybe thst history of Ireland hosted by whatshisface the actor that was in Jeckyl, that suggested they were round because of their proximity to the North Sea and its high winds, squared buildings faring poorly in the wind, but round one doing well.

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They were primarily bell towers, although they might have had a few other practical uses as well such as storage. I don't think there's anything magical about them.

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When I was there I seem to remember that they were a community's last place of defence in case of attack. Smaller livestock and water could be stored at the bottom of the tower and defended from the heights.

Also, a round wall defends better from projectiles than a flat wall does.

IIRC.

Edited by Likely Guy
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They used to think they were a safe place because the doors were so high off the ground, but then determined that the reason for that was because the base would be more solid and a stronger support for the tower without a door opening at the bottom of it.

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2 hours ago, Likely Guy said:

When I was there I seem to remember that they were a community's last place of defence in case of attack. Smaller livestock and water could be stored at the bottom of the tower and defended from the heights.

Also, a round wall defends better from projectiles than a flat wall does.

IIRC.

Yep. They were built in the Early Middle Ages by the church and were used as a combination of belltower, communal defense and storage during the Viking raids in the eighth to early eleventh centuries. I know books were often stored there (as they were very valuable objects), but their round shape made them particularly susceptible to fire -- in essence, they became big chimneys, so lots of books and lives were lost in them. That's by and large why they stopped making them.

--Jaylemurph

Edited by jaylemurph
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On 8/24/2016 at 7:05 PM, jaylemurph said:

Yep. They were built in the Early Middle Ages by the church and were used as a combination of belltower, communal defense and storage during the Viking raids in the eighth to early eleventh centuries. I know books were often stored there (as they were very valuable objects), but their round shape made them particularly susceptible to fire -- in essence, they became big chimneys, so lots of books and lives were lost in them. That's by and large why they stopped making them.

--Jaylemurph

perhaps they should have stored fire extinguishers in them too...

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On 25/08/2016 at 5:50 AM, bubblykiss said:

What a lovely find. I had only the vaguest idea about these things even existing.

Well they are really interesting!

They defy explanation because some are possibly lookouts, but others are in valleys, negating the height advantage! There are many theories!

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On 25/08/2016 at 6:28 AM, Lord Fedorable said:

I seem to recall something, maybe thst history of Ireland hosted by whatshisface the actor that was in Jeckyl, that suggested they were round because of their proximity to the North Sea and its high winds, squared buildings faring poorly in the wind, but round one doing well.

That's a good theory. But why build a tower in the first place, if there is a problem withstanding winds!

What's the underlying idea, do you think?

Hazard a guess?

Charles.

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On 25/08/2016 at 6:48 AM, Clair said:

They were primarily bell towers, although they might have had a few other practical uses as well such as storage. I don't think there's anything magical about them.

The round towers are a huge mystery, but only to the curious!

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Quote

Brechin Round Tower 
Brechin Round TowerFree-standing round towers were built in Ireland between 900 and 1180 and were called "cloichtheach" in Gaelic - literally "bell-house" though they were used only for large hand-bells to summon the monks to their devotions. Around 60 are known in Ireland (though only about a dozen remain complete). There are two in Scotland - one at Abernethy and the other in Brechin - the latter being the oldest, built around 1000 AD.

The tower at Brechin is 86 feet to the wallhead and over 106 feet to the apex of the octagonal cap-house (which replaced a conical one in the late 14th century. Although externally the tower narrows towards the top the internal diameter does not change much through the seven floors to the top. The towers were used as libraries and for keeping valuables and as refuges in times of violent attack.

Door to Brechin Round TowerThe doorway to the tower is six feet above the ground (which was frequently the case with such towers) but the construction is unique and so is the rich decoration (although it bears some resemblance to the tower at the ecclesiastical centre at Kells in Ireland). Although worn by the passage of time, there is a carving of the crucifixion at the top, two further figures on each side and decorative mouldings around the stone arches.

The Round Tower was built a few hundred years before the present cathedral but was incorporated into it at its south-west corner. 

http://www.rampantscotland.com/visit/blvisitbrechin.htm

 

Monks built them for monk reasons.

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2 hours ago, Skithia said:

http://www.rampantscotland.com/visit/blvisitbrechin.htm

 

Monks built them for monk reasons.

Thanks very much for this!

One problem with the theory of a simple explanation is why have a bell house at all? Why not simply ring the bell in the open air? Why is it so elaborate? Some of these towers date from the dark ages and are accompanied by small by comparison churches. Why not put the energy expended into building the tower, into building a bigger church? Also why is the bell tower often located in the cemetery adjoining the church? I've been to so many of these but unable to make head or tail of the 'why'. I'd say they are good protection for storing things from locals... but from Vikings... not really. They are also a symbol of power, quite clearly and might be built for that reason as well.

Charles.

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Towers built in the Hamalaya, about the same era as the Irish round towers, were possibly built for funerary reasons, but present an equally perplexing mystery. There are also round towers in Iran! Most fascinating. Here is a video about the towers in the Himalaya.

 

 

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On 25/08/2016 at 9:05 AM, jaylemurph said:

Yep. They were built in the Early Middle Ages by the church and were used as a combination of belltower, communal defense and storage during the Viking raids in the eighth to early eleventh centuries. I know books were often stored there (as they were very valuable objects), but their round shape made them particularly susceptible to fire -- in essence, they became big chimneys, so lots of books and lives were lost in them. That's by and large why they stopped making them.

--Jaylemurph

So they made them for say... centuries...the ones I visited, they started making them I think in the 700s or 800s, until I think the late middle ages, when they stopped, and then they suddenly stopped because of fire?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Maybe! I'm personally not convinced that this utterly explains the mystery, but the idea of storage of valuable objects is probably correct. I wonder if they are like fabled wizard's towers. Who knows!

Thanks for the contribution!

Charles.

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Cultures that have gods in the sky tend to build high rise structures. Pagoda for Buddhism, minaret for Islam and bell tower for Christian.

Building a little church with a tall bell tower mean you can reach higher with the same amount of labor and material, contrary to gothic cathedrals where the entire building is built high.

As for why they stop doing them, they fall out of fashion for some reason and a new style arose. Talking of gothic cathedrals, around 1180 is when the style emerged. Let me look up the dates... Le style started around 1135 for St-Étienne-de-Sens and St-Denis, then spread around Normandy and Île-de-France. The style crossed the borders to reach Benelux and England by the end of the century.

In Ireland, Normans build the St. Patrick's Cathedral in in 1191 and renovated the Christ Church's Cathedral in the 1180s, both construction in Dublin. So indeed, gothic architecture was already in Ireland by the end of the 12th century, Irish Bell Tower probably fell out of fashion with the rest of the romanesque architecture style.

Edit: I know, this explanation is boringly mundane

Edited by Gingitsune
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On 01/09/2016 at 2:43 AM, Gingitsune said:

Cultures that have gods in the sky tend to build high rise structures. Pagoda for Buddhism, minaret for Islam and bell tower for Christian.

Building a little church with a tall bell tower mean you can reach higher with the same amount of labor and material, contrary to gothic cathedrals where the entire building is built high.

As for why they stop doing them, they fall out of fashion for some reason and a new style arose. Talking of gothic cathedrals, around 1180 is when the style emerged. Let me look up the dates... Le style started around 1135 for St-Étienne-de-Sens and St-Denis, then spread around Normandy and Île-de-France. The style crossed the borders to reach Benelux and England by the end of the century.

In Ireland, Normans build the St. Patrick's Cathedral in in 1191 and renovated the Christ Church's Cathedral in the 1180s, both construction in Dublin. So indeed, gothic architecture was already in Ireland by the end of the 12th century, Irish Bell Tower probably fell out of fashion with the rest of the romanesque architecture style.

Edit: I know, this explanation is boringly mundane

Thanks this is possibly the very best reply in this thread!

To my knowledge, no evidence bells were ever in these towers, unfortunately!

Someone could have climbed the stairs and shaken the hand bell, but why?

Charles.

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4 hours ago, Charles K said:

Thanks this is possibly the very best reply in this thread!

To my knowledge, no evidence bells were ever in these towers, unfortunately!

Someone could have climbed the stairs and shaken the hand bell, but why?

Charles.

Same reason Clerics shout at people from minarets, a call to prayer?

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7 hours ago, Lord Fedorable said:

Same reason Clerics shout at people from minarets, a call to prayer?

That too! But I wish we had something definite!

Chucky.

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I will remain unsatisfied until we have a definite answer. So far we have maybe this and maybe that and also maybe that as well. Possibly the tower builders themselves had no idea why they built the towers so well... so they stopped!

Charles.

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29 minutes ago, Charles K said:

I will remain unsatisfied until we have a definite answer. So far we have maybe this and maybe that and also maybe that as well. Possibly the tower builders themselves had no idea why they built the towers so well... so they stopped!

Charles.

You will remain unsatisfied then.

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... because there was no such things as radio, TV or Internet back then ...

 

~

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15 hours ago, Charles K said:

Thanks this is possibly the very best reply in this thread!

To my knowledge, no evidence bells were ever in these towers, unfortunately!

Someone could have climbed the stairs and shaken the hand bell, but why?

Charles.

Because loud bells are loud.

I heard a story, when I was a boy, about someone being caught in the bell chamber of Canberra Carillon.  It may be an urban myth; but I imagine it would be an unpleasant experience.

All carillons seem to very tall compared to their footprint.

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