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Is astral projection a delusion?


Merc14

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2 hours ago, PersonFromPorlock said:

I don't specify a means. By 'mechanism' I mean only that something serves to unite physically distant simultaneous brain processes into an efficient whole, the mind. That this mechanism is possible is shown by the fact that it works in us. Telepathy is actually the default setting, but is routinely defeated by factors I describe in the paper.

I completely do not get the bit in bold.  Can you give an example of this 'mechanism' and how/why 'mainstream' explanations do not apply?

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12 hours ago, Thorvir Hrothgaard said:

:)  I didn't say "thought provoking", but if you think so, go ahead with that.  It is entertaining, and sometimes sad in a good way (and some bad ways).  As for astral projection in the show...Finn did use it to summon butterflies.  Is that how it's actually supposed to work?

I don't remember the butterfly one. None of them are completely accurate. This one is kinda close. Start about a minute into it.

 

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  On 08/31/2016 at 9:19 PM, PersonFromPorlock said:

I don't specify a means. By 'mechanism' I mean only that something serves to unite physically distant simultaneous brain processes into an efficient whole, the mind. That this mechanism is possible is shown by the fact that it works in us. Telepathy is actually the default setting, but is routinely defeated by factors I describe in the paper.

On 09/01/2016 at 0:59 AM, ChrLzs said:

I completely do not get the bit in bold.  Can you give an example of this 'mechanism' and how/why 'mainstream' explanations do not apply?

Apologies for not getting back to you sooner. The 'mechanism' is undefined except as something that's implied by the existence of the mind; it may or may not be physical. The problem with the 'mainstream' explanation is that it simply assumes the existence of the mind as a concomitant of activity in the brain, and ignores the impossibility, without action at a distance, of simultaneous neural events existing to one another while physically separate. Since our minds contain many things simultaneously, something, the 'mechanism', is going on that does allow the action at a distance of incorporating those separate neural events as an efficient mind (the efficiency is shown by our discussing it). The question is then what limits the scope of a mind, if not distance, which is where I get into telepathy.

I should explain that I'm not really very interested in telepathy, my main concern being what happens when we take the mind as our only direct experience of the 'stuff' of which the world is made: the scientist's experience of making an observation is always real, even if the observation itself is not. The telepathy paper just happened along the way to a more general theory.

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On 8/31/2016 at 3:33 PM, preacherman76 said:

I gotta say Xeno, I can dig it if you think you have out grown this type of thing. I think being bitter towards people who don't feel the same as you is childish. Toss aside what you consider childish. But why spend so much time angry at folks like myself? If you have no time or use for any of this, then really get rid of it. Move on to what you'd consider more adult, and worth your time, instead of continuing to talk about childish things.

I do not think Xeno is being bitter at all, I think he is simply trying to maintain a delineation between what is real and what is imaginary.

Dreaming of imaginary characters is one thing but being able to tell the difference between real and not real is another and too keep insisting that dreams are real and tangible is not useful or healthy for anyone. Sure, have fun in your dreams but always keep reminding yourself that it is all fake, like a projection on a screen.

Imagination is nice but until one uses real actions to make any aspect of it tangible then all it will be is a mental illusion.

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22 minutes ago, Ryu said:

I do not think Xeno is being bitter at all, I think he is simply trying to maintain a delineation between what is real and what is imaginary.

Dreaming of imaginary characters is one thing but being able to tell the difference between real and not real is another and too keep insisting that dreams are real and tangible is not useful or healthy for anyone. Sure, have fun in your dreams but always keep reminding yourself that it is all fake, like a projection on a screen.

Imagination is nice but until one uses real actions to make any aspect of it tangible then all it will be is a mental illusion.

If this were the only conversation we've had on the subject, I'd agree that post wasn't bitter. However we have been down this road a few times, and Xen has gotten out right p***ed off.Thing is I'm not convinced that it's just a dream. I have reason to believe it is possibly much more then that. 

Either way I don't believe it's unhealthy to consider the possibility at all. Why do you feel that way?Have you ever experienced AP Ryu? If you had, you'd know that isn't at all like a dream. 

Real or not it has no effect on waking reality, no consequences even if it's completely as it seems. How exactly is my health at stake? 

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8 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

If this were the only conversation we've had on the subject, I'd agree that post wasn't bitter. However we have been down this road a few times, and Xen has gotten out right p***ed off.Thing is I'm not convinced that it's just a dream. I have reason to believe it is possibly much more then that. 

Either way I don't believe it's unhealthy to consider the possibility at all. Why do you feel that way?Have you ever experienced AP Ryu? If you had, you'd know that isn't at all like a dream. 

Real or not it has no effect on waking reality, no consequences even if it's completely as it seems. How exactly is my health at stake? 

When I was years (and years) younger I used to think that when I had unusual dreams that I actually "traveled to some destination outside myself but as time wore on I realized that no part of myself went anywhere. It was all a inner illusion.

Health is at stake when you start mistaking illusions for reality. When you allow yourself to assume that just because you dreamt of a purple and white tiger, for example, that this is what actually happened. The mind is largely uncharted territory but it is also adept at producing all manners of illusions when other aspects of it are at rest.

I had a couple of dreams that seemed unusual but I also knew it was just a dream so in the dream I said so and it was as if the whole thing fell apart, if it was real then it would not have or some character in the dream would have explained otherwise. 

Dreams are nice but for me they hold no possibility beyond being superficially entertaining.

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I think I'm assuming things that might not necessarily be true when it comes to our conversation here Ryu. Do you know what astral projection is? How it works? 

Its not like you are in a dream. You don't at any point lose consciousness. There is also the mystery of the vibration stage just before you exit, so to speak. It's like a strong electric current that you feel over your entire body. I have yet to see science even begin to touch that part of it. 

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