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8th_wall

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I've recently begun to find it interesting that when I play a game or read a book I lose sense of myself and am transported into the actual content I'm interacting with.  It occurred to me at some point that the "I" in the center of my head and the experience I was constantly interacting with isn't limited to what I perceive by my 5 senses.  Any sort of fiction could grab me and have me forget that what it was about isn't necessarily read.

I think that what we believe about the world is largely just stories that we tell ourselves about the world.  What is true and what isn't true doesn't really matter in light of the fact that we enjoy stories, entertainment and just plain playing around.

I find the idea of having a separate avatar interesting to use in the telling of whatever story one wishes to tell when told from the perspective of self.  I've been toying around with the concept and doing some writing recently and do find myself becoming separated from my keyboard and computer as I watch the story unravel itself.

An interesting thought is this, is it possible to make yourself believe anything through the telling of stories that could perhaps be true, and on a similar line of thought is it possible to disillusion yourself from previously held false belief by also engaging your sense of perception and self in this way that isn't directed by someone else's hand?  I.e reading a book.

I think that this sort of thing is what children do all the time when they play, transported to whatever world of their imagining.  I think we all have it in us to play and create in this fun way universes for ourselves that are as fictional or nonfictional as we choose them to be. 

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Yep, it's called "imagination". That is what happens when you read a book, hear a story, play a game or watch a movie that particularly interests you.

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I am reminded of something I was told ( and read though I don't remember where ) that how and what degree we are attuned to our 'reality' is based entirely on the prevalent entrenched acceptance of what constitutes as acceptable reality

A little child might have no different inclinations or problems if upon by chance happens to witness a chair standing on one leg on its own, though for many of us it might induce the hairs standing on ends if not totally soil our pants ... or something to that effect ~

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Have you ever read a book containing a main character that encapsulated ideas and mannerisms strongly vibing with your psyche, and you found yourself expressing some of those traits?

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look into Sammadhi... it's when your perception shifts and you are no longer centered in a sense of 'self' that is held within the confines of your thoughts and body.

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7 hours ago, Ryu said:

Yep, it's called "imagination". That is what happens when you read a book, hear a story, play a game or watch a movie that particularly interests you.

What I'm trying to grasp at is different than imagination.  There is something "real" about what occurs when playing a game.  Some part of you believes that you are the character on the screen doing stuff, going places, interacting that is shifted away from your usual perception of self.  It should be possible to self direct anything one wishes that one accepts as true at the core of the being as a story or play thing in any way that one chooses.  Should we consider accepting our imaginings as real?  Do children do this?  Question their own grasp on reality?  It seems possible that with a certain amount of thought I could get myself to believe anything.  And through this interaction of playing I am transported away from myself and into the medium I am interacting with.  We are molded like this, I think, but in a potentially fun way.

7 hours ago, Wes4747 said:

Have you ever read a book containing a main character that encapsulated ideas and mannerisms strongly vibing with your psyche, and you found yourself expressing some of those traits?

Absolutely.  The constant use of "I" naturally causes the reader to view things from the author's intended use of the letter perspective.  Most of us naturally empathizes with that which we perceive from our fellow humans.  Even if they are fictional since the brain seems to make it "real" on some abstract level.

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So maybe affirmations hold a little more weight then I jaf assumed... Studied the life of Hubbard? L. Ron? He's a quack for sure, but he accomplished interesting things.

Affirmations were a big part of his life.

15 hours ago, PsiSeeker said:

What I'm trying to grasp at is different than imagination.  There is something "real" about what occurs when playing a game.  Some part of you believes that you are the character on the screen doing stuff, going places, interacting that is shifted away from your usual perception of self.  It should be possible to self direct anything one wishes that one accepts as true at the core of the being as a story or play thing in any way that one chooses.  Should we consider accepting our imaginings as real?  Do children do this?  Question their own grasp on reality?  It seems possible that with a certain amount of thought I could get myself to believe anything.  And through this interaction of playing I am transported away from myself and into the medium I am interacting with.  We are molded like this, I think, but in a potentially fun way.

Absolutely.  The constant use of "I" naturally causes the reader to view things from the author's intended use of the letter perspective.  Most of us naturally empathizes with that which we perceive from our fellow humans.  Even if they are fictional since the brain seems to make it "real" on some abstract level.

 

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On 8/30/2016 at 11:19 PM, quiXilver said:

look into Sammadhi... it's when your perception shifts and you are no longer centered in a sense of 'self' that is held within the confines of your thoughts and body.

you mean something like so :

~

~

On 8/30/2016 at 8:45 PM, Wes4747 said:

Have you ever read a book containing a main character that encapsulated ideas and mannerisms strongly vibing with your psyche, and you found yourself expressing some of those traits?

 

Edited by third_eye
missed a quote
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  • 3 weeks later...

Children don't have the same boundaries in expressing their imagination, unless you are in the arts, a real life drama queen not quite as sane as the rest or haven't grown up completely.:lol:

jmccr8

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What I'm trying to lean at here is that it should be possible to create your own world, your own reality, your own way of seeing and understanding and communicating.  We are driven to rely on the social norms that have evolved for language and the like but I wonder if we are actually limited to it.

People born in different societies behave and act according to the "stories" of those societies.  Their characters are largely built based upon preexisting paradigms.  I suppose that in a way this is the rebellious period teenagers go through when trying to discover who they are...  The "stories" that already exist that shape our worlds are well formed, rigid, well thought out etc.  I wonder if more don't perhaps exist that we haven't thought of yet.

I guess this all goes back to authenticity then.  What does it mean to be authentically me?  Am I just a reflection of my surroundings?  Who am I?  What is real of what I experience?  Is it what I'm told?  What I interact with?  Yes what I'm pointing at is largely creative work undertaken by children mostly who imagine new worlds for themselves instead of letting others do the imagining for them.  Authors, artists any form of creative fictional, abstract work I would imagine.  Is it not through this that character is shaped as far as being authentic and "real" is concerned?  Untangling yourself from your surroundings and your surroundings from yourself?

How much should we rely on systems of worlds that have been thought out ahead of us instead of carving a new path for ourselves?  Are we at risk of reinventing the wheel if we do?  Does it even matter if we do?

I hate the feeling of having to sift through years of academia before it feels like I actually begin doing something worthwhile and real as far as my world view is concerned.  I don't think there is enough emphasis taken to encourage self exploration.  Too many people end up suffering from mental illnesses I feel since they can't find their place in the world.  Things are too rigid...  Too lined up...  Too systematic.  It's like we're losing the "nature" part of nature.

Religion seems to be the answer for a lot of people who hit their lowest of lows.  More stories.  More systems.  My thinking is that it should be possible to tell and immerse yourself in your own story, and have it say and mean and do whatever your heart desires for it.  I wonder if this isn't what most people do already and I'm just slow to arrive to the party haha :P. 

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4 hours ago, PsiSeeker said:

What I'm trying to lean at here is that it should be possible to create your own world, your own reality, your own way of seeing and understanding and communicating.  We are driven to rely on the social norms that have evolved for language and the like but I wonder if we are actually limited to it.

People born in different societies behave and act according to the "stories" of those societies.  Their characters are largely built based upon preexisting paradigms.  I suppose that in a way this is the rebellious period teenagers go through when trying to discover who they are...  The "stories" that already exist that shape our worlds are well formed, rigid, well thought out etc.  I wonder if more don't perhaps exist that we haven't thought of yet.

I guess this all goes back to authenticity then.  What does it mean to be authentically me?  Am I just a reflection of my surroundings?  Who am I?  What is real of what I experience?  Is it what I'm told?  What I interact with?  Yes what I'm pointing at is largely creative work undertaken by children mostly who imagine new worlds for themselves instead of letting others do the imagining for them.  Authors, artists any form of creative fictional, abstract work I would imagine.  Is it not through this that character is shaped as far as being authentic and "real" is concerned?  Untangling yourself from your surroundings and your surroundings from yourself?

How much should we rely on systems of worlds that have been thought out ahead of us instead of carving a new path for ourselves?  Are we at risk of reinventing the wheel if we do?  Does it even matter if we do?

I hate the feeling of having to sift through years of academia before it feels like I actually begin doing something worthwhile and real as far as my world view is concerned.  I don't think there is enough emphasis taken to encourage self exploration.  Too many people end up suffering from mental illnesses I feel since they can't find their place in the world.  Things are too rigid...  Too lined up...  Too systematic.  It's like we're losing the "nature" part of nature.

Religion seems to be the answer for a lot of people who hit their lowest of lows.  More stories.  More systems.  My thinking is that it should be possible to tell and immerse yourself in your own story, and have it say and mean and do whatever your heart desires for it.  I wonder if this isn't what most people do already and I'm just slow to arrive to the party haha :P. 

Yes, most people unconsciously immerse themselves in their own story and feed their ego. You have the choice now to consciously choose and change that story as you are able. To be.

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Perhaps children are the only authentic humans. When we grow up we must become a piece in the jigsaw puzzle. All the pieces look pretty much alike, though there are subtle differences. But, even these differences may be from learned experience and not truly authentically us..

Maybe an authentic person understands the games people play, With this understanding he may realize the games he's played, and look to discover what in him is authentically himself.

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34 minutes ago, StarMountainKid said:

Perhaps children are the only authentic humans. When we grow up we must become a piece in the jigsaw puzzle. All the pieces look pretty much alike, though there are subtle differences. But, even these differences may be from learned experience and not truly authentically us..

Maybe an authentic person understands the games people play, With this understanding he may realize the games he's played, and look to discover what in him is authentically himself.

Well said

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In some documentary a Professor said he asked a Buddhist monk what is the essence of Buddhism? The monk said, "An appropriate response." I think this is a profound answer. He may have said, as well, "An authentic response."

Our real lives are now, moment by moment, not so much in some future. So maybe all we can do is try to be our real selves right now, as circumstances happen in real time.

This way, we don't have the burden of trying to become some imagined complete authentic person all at once. Too big a job, I think. Just take it minute by minute. Maybe that's enough for us.

 

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Right from the times of my early teens I have questioned myself,why I responded to a situation the way I did what was my intent/motivation. I have always been a leader and had men working under my direction and care,I always look at how to improve my methodology and grow. Yes the rest of the world is and has been an influence, even your opposition is your teacher,they help us define and refine who and what we are,and believe. :) I really shouldn't have used we/your/our,should have been me/I/my. :lol:

jmccr8

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We probably invent stories for ourselves depending on circumstances. Some re-invent themselves and become another external person, I suppose not liking their former self, or their former self doesn't fit in with the new society they have entered. So I suppose we can invent stories for ourselves that are our reality.

I'm wondering if we have to be flexible in this way, or can we retain some authenticity no matter the social or psychological circumstances?

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42 minutes ago, StarMountainKid said:

We probably invent stories for ourselves depending on circumstances. Some re-invent themselves and become another external person, I suppose not liking their former self, or their former self doesn't fit in with the new society they have entered. So I suppose we can invent stories for ourselves that are our reality.

I'm wondering if we have to be flexible in this way, or can we retain some authenticity no matter the social or psychological circumstances?

My opinion? Quit inventing yourself! Just be. At first you have to realize when you're getting caught up in another story, and drop it. Basics of zen buddhism. Drop the idea! Drop the expectations.

My favorite story-paraphrased- took me a long time to "get it".

An initiate picked some beautiful flowers, put them in a personally handcrafted vase with the intention of presenting them to the master with the days portion of lentils in an effort to impress the master.

The initiate knew how much the master adored flowers and was beaming when he made his way to the masters chair. 

Halfway across the room the master spots the initiate and with the fury of a fighting banshee bellows "drop it!" Several initiates in the room were startled and turned to watch as our proud initiate dropped the vase and flowers and it shattered on the floor. 

The initiate took another step thinking to at least appease his master with the lentils and perhaps earn pardon for bringing the flowers, when the master shouted "drop it!" So loud the other initiates began to suspect our guy intended the master Ill harm, the initiate dropped the lentils, exasperated, and took another step approaching the master to kiss his feet as a sincere apology for his misdeeds. 

Once again the master screams "drop it!" Overwhelmed, the initiate drops to the floor, and tears start flowing, thinking the master must surely hate him. "Drop it!" At this moment, the initiate realized his expectations and ideas were all he had left to hold onto and immediately reaches satori. 

The master says "come" and smiles. 

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On 9/20/2016 at 6:25 AM, PsiSeeker said:

What I'm trying to lean at here is that it should be possible to create your own world, your own reality, your own way of seeing and understanding and communicating.  We are driven to rely on the social norms that have evolved for language and the like but I wonder if we are actually limited to it.

Those sort of people are called "eccentrics" and they can exist because their wall of wealth prevents them from being sent to the asylum for a head check. To live in your own made up world of your own making requires that you are separate and in control of a lot of resources. Limits in human society are controlled to protect the "uneccentrics" from the harm of the "eccentrics". You can imagine a wealthy boy who is slightly insane and ruthlessly violent and uncannily sneaky could be getting a billionaire inheritance. He lives in his own world without limits. He is an extreme danger to society because of his power, his protection and his cruelty. He has his own way of seeing and understanding and communicating. It isn't with words, it's with weapons and violence. Does that make sense to you?

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3 hours ago, Zalmoxis said:

Those sort of people are called "eccentrics" and they can exist because their wall of wealth prevents them from being sent to the asylum for a head check. To live in your own made up world of your own making requires that you are separate and in control of a lot of resources. Limits in human society are controlled to protect the "uneccentrics" from the harm of the "eccentrics". You can imagine a wealthy boy who is slightly insane and ruthlessly violent and uncannily sneaky could be getting a billionaire inheritance. He lives in his own world without limits. He is an extreme danger to society because of his power, his protection and his cruelty. He has his own way of seeing and understanding and communicating. It isn't with words, it's with weapons and violence. Does that make sense to you?

I see your point... But I do believe most people live in their own little story worlds, not o my the scary ones.. Perhaps the limits imposed on society keep more scaries at bay...

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27 minutes ago, Wes4747 said:

I see your point... But I do believe most people live in their own little story worlds, not o my the scary ones.. Perhaps the limits imposed on society keep more scaries at bay...

There's a great 1948 film noir detective movie shot in New York City, 'The Naked City', which also became a TV series. The tag line of the narration at the end of the movie and TV shows was the iconic line, "There are eight million stories in the naked city, this has been one of them."

I think what you say is true. We all live in our own little story worlds.

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It becomes powerful when contemplated.. "How am I seen?" Can become a science and a tool when you can figure out where you fit in someone elses story.. Also easier to choose people to build lasting relationships..

And how freeing? To detatch from all your own stories and just be, enjoying whatever the moment may bring...

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On 9/23/2016 at 6:00 AM, Zalmoxis said:

Those sort of people are called "eccentrics" and they can exist because their wall of wealth prevents them from being sent to the asylum for a head check. To live in your own made up world of your own making requires that you are separate and in control of a lot of resources. Limits in human society are controlled to protect the "uneccentrics" from the harm of the "eccentrics". You can imagine a wealthy boy who is slightly insane and ruthlessly violent and uncannily sneaky could be getting a billionaire inheritance. He lives in his own world without limits. He is an extreme danger to society because of his power, his protection and his cruelty. He has his own way of seeing and understanding and communicating. It isn't with words, it's with weapons and violence. Does that make sense to you?

I see your point however wish to point out that an eccentrics world view need not necessarily be evil and menacing.    There must also exist ways of adopting world view that does not interfere with non-eccentrics.  That is those masses that choose to live in the same story as opposed to one who creates his own.

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