Wes4747 Posted September 11, 2016 #1 Share Posted September 11, 2016 I debated with myself over posting this in this section or in psychology, so here we are. This has been used predominately as a spiritual term, emphasis on roman catholicism, but now the term is thrown around rather loosely in new age groups. Mother Theresa is said to have dealt with the dark night of the soul most of her life with only brief moments of relief. Have you, or are you, experienced/experiencing this state? Under what circumstance i.e. religious, philosophy, unknown? For how long? If you've already come through this journey, what was the outcome? Attributes? Discoveries? Thanks Wes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted September 11, 2016 #2 Share Posted September 11, 2016 I tried to read the book at one time, very heavy going. The so-called Dark Night of the Soul refers to indeterminate intervals in a period of mystical contemplation, where there is nothing in the way of consolation for the rigors undergone. Viewed by some as a test of the mettle of the seeker. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rashore Posted September 11, 2016 #3 Share Posted September 11, 2016 I didn't even know that was a thing till I saw this topic. Had to ask my husband what it was- he's well learned in religion. I learn something new every day I've had some dark times, and got some darkness in my soul. But I don't think I've ever undergone the bleak morass with religious tones that this term seems to imply. Interesting to contemplate though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlitterRose Posted September 11, 2016 #4 Share Posted September 11, 2016 (edited) Yes, I have experienced that. It was the result of a terrible family tragedy and survival guilt. I punished myself for something that was entirely out of my control, for a very long time. And I did it so well, that my inner demons spilled out and were experienced by not only me, but also people around me. I had to come to the realization that all of this was coming from me, and I could choose not to do that to myself. Once I came to that realization, I was able to get things back under control. Edited September 11, 2016 by ChaosRose 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes4747 Posted September 11, 2016 Author #5 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Thanks for the clarification Habitat, really looking for experiential thoughts. I despise labels, such as depression or 'dark night of the soul', though I see their usefulness. Are they really one and the same? A young girl once told me that she thought depression was a little dark spirit demon sent to rob joy, literally, so definitions of commonly used words can vary to the extreme. Know that must have been tough Chaos, enduring exponential torment with little sight of relief. Obviously, you come out of it stronger? In what quantifiable way? What brought you back? In what ways did your demons manifest? Hope I'm not getting too personal.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlitterRose Posted September 11, 2016 #6 Share Posted September 11, 2016 (edited) I liken it to the abyss and the "demon Choronzon" in Thelema. Think of the abyss as your own psyche and the "demon Choronzon" as the darkest thing you can conjure with your own psyche...and in your time of greatest distress, you are punishing yourself with it. If you realize that all of it is coming from you, then it no longer holds power. It's like smoke that dissipates. It's a lot like putting yourself in your own personal hell, and then one day you realize the stairs you built so you could get down there. And you just climb out. Edited September 11, 2016 by ChaosRose 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlitterRose Posted September 11, 2016 #7 Share Posted September 11, 2016 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Wes4747 said: Thanks for the clarification Habitat, really looking for experiential thoughts. I despise labels, such as depression or 'dark night of the soul', though I see their usefulness. Are they really one and the same? A young girl once told me that she thought depression was a little dark spirit demon sent to rob joy, literally, so definitions of commonly used words can vary to the extreme. Know that must have been tough Chaos, enduring exponential torment with little sight of relief. Obviously, you come out of it stronger? In what quantifiable way? What brought you back? In what ways did your demons manifest? Hope I'm not getting too personal.. Not everyone comes out of this. I'm sure there are people in their deepest despair who don't. I think the reason I could do this is because I started detaching from the phenomena. I could have been horrified, but it was interesting to me. I wanted to know the what, how and why of it all. I'm not going to get into all of the experiences I had. I've done so on other discussions at great length. If you want to send me a private message, I'll share them. The actual point, though, is that the phenomena is not the point. It's "real" in the sense that you and others can experience it, but it's hollow in that it isn't independent. And you can take the wind out of its sails, so to speak. And that's because you are the one giving it the wind and the sails. Edited September 11, 2016 by ChaosRose 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted September 11, 2016 #8 Share Posted September 11, 2016 I've recently came out of it. For me it was almost a forced look at myself and my life. All the ugly all at once. 4 years of it. In the aftermath it was enlightening. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplybill Posted September 11, 2016 #9 Share Posted September 11, 2016 (edited) Wes4747 - Excellent topic! I will be thinking of this all day long. Sometimes our individual experiences are better understood when put into a framework that is recognizable by everyone. We see our commonality and our individuality all at once. My 'dark night of the soul' came from an allergic reaction to the sweetener Stevia. I often get depressed in the wintertime, but that's something I expect and I plan accordingly. This was something different. The effects happened so slowly that I didn't make the connection. I gradually lost my energy to the point where I spent most of the day on the couch and had to steady myself against the wall as I walked from room-to-room. During the worst of it, I missed three months of work and I reduced my work schedule to 3-6 days per month (when I was able to work at all). My doctor thought the fatigue was caused by low testosterone, so I adjusted my diet. It didn't help. It was frustrating to sense that I was dying, and not having a clue as to what was killing me. I got my affairs in order, a lawyer helped me with my 'Last Will and Testament', and I cleaned out my closets and took clothes and books to a charity organization. I spent hours and hours on the Internet researching chronic fatigue and its possible causes, and finally I came across several websites discussing Stevia. The constellation of symptoms that I had matched the symptoms that other people were experiencing. I felt the joy that occurs when hope breaks through the darkness. I lost a lot of ground during that two year episode, but the recovery has given me a renewed outlook on life. It's as though every experience is magnified. Colors are brighter, the sun is warmer, sunsets are like a spiritual experience. I now understand the biblical concept of a seed planted in the ground that must first 'die' before breaking through to the sunlight. Edited September 11, 2016 by simplybill 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted September 11, 2016 #10 Share Posted September 11, 2016 Everyone seems to talk about a void in our souls that can not be filled. The dark night in a way is like that hole becoming a singularity. Nothing but a complete void within that nothing at all can fill. You may feel apathy, depression, hopeless, and even anger. Depending on the person the Night affects them differently. For me it was like a none stop stream of realizations about myself and my life, many that I fought to deny. The only way I made it through was accepting 'truth'. You never see life the same once you make it through, if you make it through. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlitterRose Posted September 11, 2016 #11 Share Posted September 11, 2016 3 minutes ago, XenoFish said: Everyone seems to talk about a void in our souls that can not be filled. The dark night in a way is like that hole becoming a singularity. Nothing but a complete void within that nothing at all can fill. You may feel apathy, depression, hopeless, and even anger. Depending on the person the Night affects them differently. For me it was like a none stop stream of realizations about myself and my life, many that I fought to deny. The only way I made it through was accepting 'truth'. You never see life the same once you make it through, if you make it through. And in that toxic state you can become very ill, physically. I am well now, and it feels like for the first time in my life. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlitterRose Posted September 11, 2016 #12 Share Posted September 11, 2016 5 minutes ago, XenoFish said: Everyone seems to talk about a void in our souls that can not be filled. The dark night in a way is like that hole becoming a singularity. Nothing but a complete void within that nothing at all can fill. You may feel apathy, depression, hopeless, and even anger. Depending on the person the Night affects them differently. For me it was like a none stop stream of realizations about myself and my life, many that I fought to deny. The only way I made it through was accepting 'truth'. You never see life the same once you make it through, if you make it through. My void (I call mine the abyss)...it's not that it was empty. It was full of ugly things, and all of them...I put in there. And then I wallowed in it for a long time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted September 11, 2016 #13 Share Posted September 11, 2016 It seems to manifest different for each of us. You could if you wanted call it a spiritual midlife crisis. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlitterRose Posted September 11, 2016 #14 Share Posted September 11, 2016 It's interesting, because you run across people who want this for themselves. They want the kinds of experiences that we've had. They want to know how they can get there. And I always say...you sure don't want to get there like I did. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted September 11, 2016 #15 Share Posted September 11, 2016 (edited) Mine came with the death of my grandmother and a big legal issue. So I was hit with a major life crisis all at one. Made it through all of it. How I managed to do so is beyond me. Guess I had no choice. I gave up on magick, god, and life. They don't call it Dark Night of the Soul for nothing. Edited September 11, 2016 by XenoFish 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quiXilver Posted September 11, 2016 #16 Share Posted September 11, 2016 the process of awakening is far from pleasant... it is most often, just the opposite as we are faced full on with our false assumptions and illusions that we may have built much of our personality around are rigorously stripped away. No cognitive dissonance is permitted to persist in the state of the dark night, or the process of awakening. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes4747 Posted September 11, 2016 Author #17 Share Posted September 11, 2016 4 hours ago, simplybill said: Wes4747 - Excellent topic! I will be thinking of this all day long. Sometimes our individual experiences are better understood when put into a framework that is recognizable by everyone. We see our commonality and our individuality all at once. My 'dark night of the soul' came from an allergic reaction to the sweetener Stevia. I often get depressed in the wintertime, but that's something I expect and I plan accordingly. This was something different. The effects happened so slowly that I didn't make the connection. I gradually lost my energy to the point where I spent most of the day on the couch and had to steady myself against the wall as I walked from room-to-room. During the worst of it, I missed three months of work and I reduced my work schedule to 3-6 days per month (when I was able to work at all). My doctor thought the fatigue was caused by low testosterone, so I adjusted my diet. It didn't help. It was frustrating to sense that I was dying, and not having a clue as to what was killing me. I got my affairs in order, a lawyer helped me with my 'Last Will and Testament', and I cleaned out my closets and took clothes and books to a charity organization. I spent hours and hours on the Internet researching chronic fatigue and its possible causes, and finally I came across several websites discussing Stevia. The constellation of symptoms that I had matched the symptoms that other people were experiencing. I felt the joy that occurs when hope breaks through the darkness. I lost a lot of ground during that two year episode, but the recovery has given me a renewed outlook on life. It's as though every experience is magnified. Colors are brighter, the sun is warmer, sunsets are like a spiritual experience. I now understand the biblical concept of a seed planted in the ground that must first 'die' before breaking through to the sunlight. I found this interesting, an actual chemical cause for this state of anguish. Glad you found the cause! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wes4747 Posted September 11, 2016 Author #18 Share Posted September 11, 2016 My dark night was very bland... The best I can describe it is... Being alive, with no purpose, no emotions at all. Yearning to yearn. I had spent years on a particular spiritual path before it hit, no one thing really induced it. No one thing dispelled it. I became a being of necessity, doing only what was necessary to keep my life going. Attributes, I gained an incredible depth of patience, I will never be able to express to you the joy it brings me to laugh and hear laughter. The ability to ground myself in this moment, and the acceptance that all knowledge lost or gained means nothing without experiential value. And a profound new trust in my being. As far as the religious aspect, I don't know if it brought me closer to god, but that's OK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted September 11, 2016 #19 Share Posted September 11, 2016 I think it is when, for various reasons, the 'soul's function becomes clouded, inoperable or confused. The Christian idea about it seems rooted in the idea of 'mystical contemplation' . Not a healthy 'soul' practice. Just as if you spend a long time not doing anything about your 'contemplation' .... about anything , you will stagnate . In a wider perception ( not just the Christian or any other single view, but by collating a wide range of views over time and location ) 'soul' seems to be that 'link to the mythological' , it is 'Man's' defining ability to imagine, visualize various complex possible outcomes, create and make (and keep what he makes) and develop things and solutions for things, that may change as things unfold. To not allow this process, or just do half of it, the contemplation, without the physical creative output will lead to stagnation. Just as stress, comes about ; we receive an impulse to act or do something , we dont, the adrenaline and other stuff produced for that perceived action is not used and stays in the systems, changing to things that create, what we call 'stress' ..... it cam actually eventually kill you. Eventually one will need to break out of that 'funk' and get the energy flowing again, find some inspiration, work on an Illuminated manuscript instead. The fault lies in the religious view, much of it is guilt ridden and masochistic and oppressive, all unhealthy for the REAL human 'soul' and its creative expression, which leads to happiness and a fulfillment .... no wonder they get this 'dark Night of the Soul'. Its modern popularity ? I think a lot of modern day people are just ****ed up because of the weird lifestyles they lead. They dont understand soul or spirit, they are still guilt ridden and effected by old style religions , whether they adopt them or not. Also the socio-cultural environment many live in doesnt allow for a free creative expression of the 'sou' of the individual l either . The area I live in is one of best kept secrets in the country: recently I saw an online article about it from someone who doesnt live here but visited; "heaven on earth the .... .... best kept secret. " Thing is we have the highest per population rate in the state for people on anti-depressants . . . . and a lot of them complain about things and make problems arise out of insignificant issues, and wreck their life. A mixed up and incorrect social framework , no matter how 'good' it is , will not keep people (and their 'souls' ) happy, content and satisfied. You can tell the ones that do have this , they have gratitude and appreciation and an 'alive' smile ( all of them 'smiles' especially the eyes ) ... not a silly doped out look on their face . . . . Basically, any dark night your soul feels trapped in is due to the oppression of your 'spirit' ; you true individual nature that wants to creatively express itself and be acknowledged VIA 'soul' . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted September 11, 2016 #20 Share Posted September 11, 2016 7 hours ago, Wes4747 said: Thanks for the clarification Habitat, really looking for experiential thoughts. I despise labels, such as depression or 'dark night of the soul', though I see their usefulness. Are they really one and the same? A young girl once told me that she thought depression was a little dark spirit demon sent to rob joy, literally, so definitions of commonly used words can vary to the extreme. Know that must have been tough Chaos, enduring exponential torment with little sight of relief. Obviously, you come out of it stronger? In what quantifiable way? What brought you back? In what ways did your demons manifest? Hope I'm not getting too personal.. I do realize that you were more looking for commentary on what might be called involuntary depression, rather than the religious variety that comes from a thwarted (at least temporarily) intent to reach God, but that is where the expression comes from originally, I expect. However, depression of any kind is not a trivial matter, I think it fair to say that there are times in almost everyone's life where we feel low and lacking in the joy of living, but when it involves suicidal thoughts, it is of another order of seriousness, and help ought to be sought post haste, whether professional counselling and/or medication. I think it is important for people at these times to shed the burdens placed on them that are not absolutely unavoidable, a lot of depression comes from a lack of "me" time, too much self-sacrifice for others, and being taken for granted doing it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted September 11, 2016 #21 Share Posted September 11, 2016 1 hour ago, Wes4747 said: I had spent years on a particular spiritual path before it hit, no one thing really induced it. No one thing dispelled it. What was this "spiritual path" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted September 11, 2016 #22 Share Posted September 11, 2016 5 hours ago, ChaosRose said: My void (I call mine the abyss)...it's not that it was empty. It was full of ugly things, and all of them...I put in there. And then I wallowed in it for a long time. Hmmm ... I had that when younger, after about 5 years into magic. I think it is different from 'dark night of the soul', it is exploring the depths of one's unconsconcious via the language of the unconscious, symbol imagery and acting .... however I think that some people experiencing this nowadays have adopted the term 'dark knight of the soul' to describe this as they did not know what the original term referred to . I worked it internally and out in a poem called 'My journey through hell', a bit like a modern Dante, the poem describes a trip through my underworld, walking along an underground tunnel with numerous side rooms with ' exhibits ' in them . My 'guide' (oh ... yeah, this is important, take a guide or make room for an assistant , a 'psychopomp' ) would point out things ... the most important : just watch, observe a little, but dont be too horrified or too fascinated or you might be drawn in, just move on to the next - witness - other wise you might become fascinated , stuck, and before you know it the glass dissolves, and you are not looking into the exhibit, you have become part of the exhibit .... and sometimes they are little harder to get of than they were to get into . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted September 11, 2016 #23 Share Posted September 11, 2016 4 minutes ago, back to earth said: .... however I think that some people experiencing this nowadays have adopted the term 'dark knight of the soul' to describe this as they did not know what the original term referred to . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted September 11, 2016 #24 Share Posted September 11, 2016 (edited) 5 hours ago, XenoFish said: Mine came with the death of my grandmother and a big legal issue. So I was hit with a major life crisis all at one. Made it through all of it. How I managed to do so is beyond me. Guess I had no choice. I gave up on magick, god, and life. They don't call it Dark Night of the Soul for nothing. Grief and other strong similar emotive forces can 'force' the 'soul' into not functioning or malfunctioning, basically because it has come up against a problem that it cant (yet or ever) come up with a solution for . This is what killed off a lot of the indigenous in Australia, aside from the disease poison and guns, some things where just so far out of the picture for them, their 'souls' shut down . Some just literally , eventually, when it all became too much for their 'spirit', sat down and died, eventually of 'depression' . Now some of the people and their cultures are coming back to life ! Why ? Because they are starting to be appreciated, they are starting to get people valuing their culture, people OS want to pay big $$$$ for traditional art, we now want to hear their stories, go to their workshops on how to manage the bush so these massive fires stop braking out and killing heaps of people . etc . etc . The indigenous imagination and spirit, like any muscle, is being workled again and needed and coming out of being atrophied . here is another example .... I have visions and dreams of house and building designs, yet for the last 2 years I have been physically disabled, some days I have to just sit around a lot ... I would be nuts by now, if I didnt design, draw up the blue prints, make the calculations, choose materials and make the house models. Its an output. people go "Why make those models, will you ever build the houses ?' Probably not, but I like doing it, its creative expression and that is 'good for the soul' Edited September 11, 2016 by back to earth 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted September 11, 2016 #25 Share Posted September 11, 2016 12 minutes ago, Habitat said: he is coming for you ! ...... because you are picking me up on a typo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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