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U.S. accuses Russia of ‘Barbarism' in Syria


Claire.

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16 minutes ago, third_eye said:

That's true ... best remember that its NOT the Palestinian people or the Israelis that wants any of this ... its the Power mongers and elite that wants to keep the status quo of hierarchy ...

~

 

The settler movement believes the land is their's by right, just as the Palestinians do, and the MK's from the settlements look after their interests.  Hamas stays in power by perpetually inciting the new generations to hatred of the Jew.  Take an ancient quarrel and season it with politics and money and madness is the only predictable result.

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Just now, and then said:

The settler movement believes the land is their's by right, just as the Palestinians do, and the MK's from the settlements look after their interests.  Hamas stays in power by perpetually inciting the new generations to hatred of the Jew.  Take an ancient quarrel and season it with politics and money and madness is the only predictable result.

again you fall back on your myopic focus of the issues ... you drag that back into the equation it just pulls the other edge of the blanket and you get the cold feet ... You forget that many of the Middle Eastern Jewish communities do not recognize this Israel that you lean on ... land grabbers ... yeah ... 'invaders'

Money don't and wont buy that kind of legitimacy ... that's why the Zionists are having a tough time at it ... frankly if that were to be the situation in the US you'll feel the same way about it too ... 

~

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1 hour ago, third_eye said:

again you fall back on your myopic focus of the issues ... you drag that back into the equation it just pulls the other edge of the blanket and you get the cold feet ... You forget that many of the Middle Eastern Jewish communities do not recognize this Israel that you lean on ... land grabbers ... yeah ... 'invaders'

Money don't and wont buy that kind of legitimacy ... that's why the Zionists are having a tough time at it ... frankly if that were to be the situation in the US you'll feel the same way about it too ... 

~

4

No, you can trust me on this - I fully understand that many Jews do not recognize the state of Israel.  While the Sabras would like such agreement, they are coming to understand that it just isn't going to happen, the hatred is too deep.    My definition of "grabbing" land or invading it is a totally different course than a State being formed by political means - whether one agrees with or not, the steps that were undertaken.   As to "buying legitimacy" it is quickly becoming an afterthought for them.  What I see is a Jewish state that wants more territory to expand and has a political element that will push indefinitely for this.  They have been trying to form alliances with France, the UK, Russia and the US in order to establish some sort of legitimacy on the world stage.  As this new "peace" plan takes hold, they will finally have been pushed into a corner from which there will be no bloodless escape.  That is the real tragedy.  When the peace agreement is shown to be nothing more than Gaza 2.0, the Israelis on the Left - those you mentioned that do not agree with the Zionist approach - then even THEY will have to concede the truth that the representatives of all the Palestinians are not trustworthy.  Unfortunately, by this time, the IDF and settlers will have been forced to evacuate and remove armaments as they disengage and leave the West Bank and East Jerusalem.  I assume you are familiar with the so-called "French Plan". 

http://www.haaretz.com/french-peace-plan-would-require-palestinian-recognition-of-jewish-state-1.365621

Equally egregious demands are made of both parties to the agreement but Israel is the only nation to have to actually surrender their security short term (at best).  A Palestinian leader can say the correct words and move into East Jerusalem.  True, that leader will have to be seen as surrendering the "right of return" but he need only address his people  in Arabic denying the legitimacy of the agreement - something Arafat did regularly.  As to my acceptance of individuals that had settled the land a few thousand years earlier, we HAVE come a long way with such a plan.  The Native Americans are better treated today than ever before in US history.  The reason for that is simple.  We accepted the fact that we were WRONG in our treatment of these peoples and have tried to recompense them to some degree.  Thay, in turn, haven't sworn blood oaths to kill every last one of us.  

TE,  this conflict has only a single solution and I believe you know this.  One or the other group must leave this land forever.  That is unfortunate but when hatred is completely intractable, there is no other solution.  I believe this conflict will trigger a very great war, eventually.

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7 hours ago, and then said:

No, you can trust me on this - I fully understand that many Jews do not recognize the state of Israel.  While the Sabras would like such agreement, they are coming to understand that it just isn't going to happen, the hatred is too deep.    My definition of "grabbing" land or invading it is a totally different course than a State being formed by political means - whether one agrees with or not, the steps that were undertaken.   As to "buying legitimacy" it is quickly becoming an afterthought for them.  What I see is a Jewish state that wants more territory to expand and has a political element that will push indefinitely for this.  They have been trying to form alliances with France, the UK, Russia and the US in order to establish some sort of legitimacy on the world stage.  As this new "peace" plan takes hold, they will finally have been pushed into a corner from which there will be no bloodless escape.  That is the real tragedy.  When the peace agreement is shown to be nothing more than Gaza 2.0, the Israelis on the Left - those you mentioned that do not agree with the Zionist approach - then even THEY will have to concede the truth that the representatives of all the Palestinians are not trustworthy.  Unfortunately, by this time, the IDF and settlers will have been forced to evacuate and remove armaments as they disengage and leave the West Bank and East Jerusalem.  I assume you are familiar with the so-called "French Plan". 

http://www.haaretz.com/french-peace-plan-would-require-palestinian-recognition-of-jewish-state-1.365621

live and die by the law or by the sword ... well ... your kind of rhetoric won't help ~

Fact of the matter is the WWII wheeler dealers messed up ... and won't own up or 'fess up ... that's why

It doesn't need a bleeding heart or a 'Jew' hater to see the kind of atrocity that is practiced on the hourly basis there ,,, and thanks be to all that is divine and virtuous that kind of excuses is fast losing ground ...

No one wants to kill ALL of Israel ... if that were the case that would have happened all those years ago when Israel was a wee 'nation' and right up to yesterday ... and don't give me that 'mighty warriors of divinity' logic rigamarole ... it was the Holy Sites in situ that protected the geography which by default gave self proclaimed moral capital to the victors ~

 

7 hours ago, and then said:

Equally egregious demands are made of both parties to the agreement but Israel is the only nation to have to actually surrender their security short term (at best).  A Palestinian leader can say the correct words and move into East Jerusalem.  True, that leader will have to be seen as surrendering the "right of return" but he need only address his people  in Arabic denying the legitimacy of the agreement - something Arafat did regularly.  As to my acceptance of individuals that had settled the land a few thousand years earlier, we HAVE come a long way with such a plan.  The Native Americans are better treated today than ever before in US history.  The reason for that is simple.  We accepted the fact that we were WRONG in our treatment of these peoples and have tried to recompense them to some degree.  Thay, in turn, haven't sworn blood oaths to kill every last one of us.  

TE,  this conflict has only a single solution and I believe you know this.  One or the other group must leave this land forever.  That is unfortunate but when hatred is completely intractable, there is no other solution.  I believe this conflict will trigger a very great war, eventually.

If I knew or believed that, I would have been be done with it ... i don't believe it ... my faith in humanity is greater than the little than those that proclaims for the indeterminate will of the designated End Game of the World since ... well ... well before there was such a belief ~

You seems to have befuddled yourself and is giving yourself the hard time of extricating the logic from the discolored Commandments ...

I'll not immerse myself in that, with all due apologies and much thanks ...

~

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On 4-10-2016 at 7:55 AM, Skulduggery said:

Plot twist: North Korea sends diplomats to Damascus and Assad teams with Kim Jong Un to strike a peace treaty between Russia and the United States. Why can't I live in a world where this can happen? Lame.

Sadly, even that actually sounds more plausible than the US govt. wanting to keep the peace on their own accord.

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On 10/8/2016 at 4:15 AM, third_eye said:

No one wants to kill ALL of Israel ... if that were the case that would have happened all those years ago when Israel was a wee 'nation' and right up to yesterday

Good!  Then we can agree that once Israel has evacuated the west bank and has surrendered east Jerusalem, there will no longer be any reason for them to be attacked, correct?  Once the Palestinians have the land back that the world is demanding for them, the people of Israel should be safe from continuing rocket attacks.  I don't believe that for a minute, of course, but if it happens I will happily admit being wrong.

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On 10/8/2016 at 5:15 AM, third_eye said:

No one wants to kill ALL of Israel ... if that were the case that would have happened all those years ago when Israel was a wee 'nation' and right up to yesterday ... 

..."they've" been trying since 1948, way back when Israel was actually just a "wee nation", and were stopped each time by Israel.  So, it's not from lack of trying that Israel's neighbors have wanted to kill ALL of Israel and haven't done it yet.

Edited by Thorvir Hrothgaard
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26 minutes ago, and then said:

Good!  Then we can agree that once Israel has evacuated the west bank and has surrendered east Jerusalem, there will no longer be any reason for them to be attacked, correct?  Once the Palestinians have the land back that the world is demanding for them, the people of Israel should be safe from continuing rocket attacks.  I don't believe that for a minute, of course, but if it happens I will happily admit being wrong.

Of course you don't believe that ... that being the sole reason that this conversation of ours has been carrying on for years here on UM alone ....

~

18 minutes ago, Thorvir Hrothgaard said:

..."they've" been trying since 1948, way back when Israel was actually just a "wee nation", and were stopped each time by Israel.  So, it's not from lack of trying that Israel's neighbors have wanted to kill ALL of Israel and haven't done it yet.

Not true ...

~

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On 9/26/2016 at 10:17 AM, and then said:

POWER is both the means AND the END.  

I agree, the end being worldwide nuclear holocaust.  I bet you would ride the bomb.

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2 hours ago, third_eye said:

Of course you don't believe that ... that being the sole reason that this conversation of ours has been carrying on for years here on UM alone ....

~

Not true ...

~

 

I note that you don't seem to believe the statement either ;)   Come now and let us reason together.  Let's say that the nation of Israel is completely at fault.  Further, let's assume the scoundrels decide that, for peace sake, to accede to all the demands made in the "French Plan".  After they have removed all forces from the west bank and have evacuated the settlements there AND in east Jerusalem, IOW, when they have honored the agreement physically, do you believe that the various groups that make up the Palestinian resistance will cease their attacks?  

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3 hours ago, Jungleboogie said:

I agree, the end being worldwide nuclear holocaust.  I bet you would ride the bomb.

You'd lose that bet but I realize insulting me is more important to you than discussing WHY such a holocaust likely will happen.  BTW, thanks for reminding me of this bit from my childhood ;)  That was a hilarious movie.  How are those bodily fluids workin' for ya?  :w00t: DON'T' MESS with TEXIZ!

Has it ever occurred to you that the world condition is only a macro reflection of interpersonal, human relationships?  IOW, hating on some guy verbally (and we ALL do it) online makes us all guilty of where this world stands today.  If the world DOES burn on our watch, none of us will be innocent and few if any will escape the consequences.

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3 minutes ago, and then said:

You'd lose that bet but I realize insulting me is more important to you than discussing WHY such a holocaust likely will happen.  BTW, thanks for reminding me of this bit from my childhood ;)  That was a hilarious movie.  How are those bodily fluids workin' for ya?  :w00t: DON'T' MESS with TEXIZ!

Has it ever occurred to you that the world condition is only a macro reflection of interpersonal, human relationships?  IOW, hating on some guy verbally (and we ALL do it) online makes us all guilty of where this world stands today.  If the world DOES burn on our watch, none of us will be innocent and few if any will escape the consequences.

Oh go on...ride it, own it.  You know you want to! :rofl:  Never take Dr. Strangelove references as an insult.  The reference itself should be your first clue.

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4 hours ago, Jungleboogie said:

Oh go on...ride it, own it.  You know you want to! :rofl:  Never take Dr. Strangelove references as an insult.  The reference itself should be your first clue.

That's just it, I DON'T own it.  I point out what I see coming and a lot of people here see me as some crazed warmonger.  That's their prerogative but it doesn't mean they are correct.  It's like saying that a person who warns his neighbors about a coming hurricane is somehow blamed for the storm.  It's just a matter of expressing biases.  I think that any person who can look around today at the trends we are experiencing and see no danger of the planet being burned up around us, has got a real problem with denial.

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9 hours ago, and then said:

I note that you don't seem to believe the statement either ;)   

And here is the reason why I always come to the conclusion that you suffer from delusions ...

 

9 hours ago, and then said:

Come now and let us reason together.  Let's say that the nation of Israel is completely at fault. 

Why ? For what purpose ? That's the reason you keep yanking at this chain ... you need a little clarity and sobriety from that spirit of the heavenly nature ...

Wickedness here is plain to see ... you don't prod stomp and blood let and then, when shoved back claims indignant from being hindered from a free hand to further wanton atrocities ... you seems to want to portray the Zionists as completely faultless by dumping all of it on everyone and everything else ... and the only way you achieve that is through willful blindness ... JC does not blind ol' boy ... even if Saul was blinded before he saw Paul ...

 

9 hours ago, and then said:

Further, let's assume the scoundrels decide that, for peace sake, to accede to all the demands made in the "French Plan".  After they have removed all forces from the west bank and have evacuated the settlements there AND in east Jerusalem, IOW, when they have honored the agreement physically, do you believe that the various groups that make up the Palestinian resistance will cease their attacks?  

See ?

Scoundrels ... where forth thy honor you rascal ...

~

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4 hours ago, third_eye said:

And here is the reason why I always come to the conclusion that you suffer from delusions

Now this is an example of miscommunication. You stated the above in response to this from me:  "I note that you don't seem to believe the statement either "

My intent was to tell you that since you did not specifically deny what I had said, then you must also believe that the attacks by Palestinians would continue.  As for the rest of your statements on the subject, TE, you never really address the POINTS I have tried to make.  You don't answer the plain question I posed.  I will try again.  There is a French peace initiative floating around the UN.  It began in the Spring, I think.  If the US president votes FOR or ABSTAINS from vetoing that plan then it will become a fait accompli.  I believe he plans to do exactly this so my question is - assuming Israel is forced by international sanctions to acquiesce to this plan, do you think that all of the various Palestinian groups will honor it once Israel has actually complied with its demands on the ground?  IOW once the settlers and IDF withdraw completely from the west bank and east Jerusalem, do you believe that the killing of Israelis in the resistance should and will, end?  Note that I make the precondition to your response unmistakeable, the Israelis must have honored the agreement on the ground before I would expect the Palestinians to stop the resistance.  After all, the world community keeps demanding that if Israel will only give up this specific piece of land upon which settlers have illegally built -and - vacate east Jerusalem so the Palestinians can have it as their capital, then peace can be achieved.  

I'm asking you if the Israelis comply, do you think they then have the right to peace with the Palestinians?  

 

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29 minutes ago, and then said:

Now this is an example of miscommunication. You stated the above in response to this from me:  "I note that you don't seem to believe the statement either "

 

No Dunc its not miscommunication ... it is myself refusing to yield to your dictates on what you are attempting to 'communicate'

What you are effectively saying is 'If not this then its that ... if you don't see it my way it means you are seeing it that ... '

What I am saying is ... That is a delusional manner of substantiating all manner of truths if not facts ... its not that you don;t see it ... you revel in that idiotic

Your various attempts of pigeon holing this issue as a case of either the Palestinians all die or the Israelis all die and the world dies with Israel ... that's beyond silliness .. it is delusional ~

 

Quote

My intent was to tell you that since you did not specifically deny what I had said, then you must also believe that the attacks by Palestinians would continue.

See ... here is exactly what I mean ... who are you to say thus ... who am I to say otherwise ... you may have that arrogance ... I definitely have not that intelligence required to outwit such arrogance ~

 

Quote

As for the rest of your statements on the subject, TE, you never really address the POINTS I have tried to make.  You don't answer the plain question I posed.  

My point again exemplified here ... your sophistry is flawed ... and I am not about to engage myself much less embroil in such pointedly flawed submissions ~

What is more than apparent here is the fate of the people there suffering under the conditions that is the inhumane of all things civilized ... all your prophetic propositional bigotry wont change any of that ~

 

Quote

 

I will try again.  There is a French peace initiative floating around the UN.  It began in the Spring, I think.  If the US president votes FOR or ABSTAINS from vetoing that plan then it will become a fait accompli.  I believe he plans to do exactly this so my question is - assuming Israel is forced by international sanctions to acquiesce to this plan, do you think that all of the various Palestinian groups will honor it once Israel has actually complied with its demands on the ground?  IOW once the settlers and IDF withdraw completely from the west bank and east Jerusalem, do you believe that the killing of Israelis in the resistance should and will, end?  Note that I make the precondition to your response unmistakeable, the Israelis must have honored the agreement on the ground before I would expect the Palestinians to stop the resistance.  After all, the world community keeps demanding that if Israel will only give up this specific piece of land upon which settlers have illegally built -and - vacate east Jerusalem so the Palestinians can have it as their capital, then peace can be achieved.  

What does it matter what I believe or don't ?

You think this is a race to whisper in God's ears ?

Do you have any solution that guarantees that NO Israelis will suffer death for eternity ?

Do you wish for a guarantee that Israel be granted immortality before the Zionists are to stop the atrocities ?

And even if so ... who are YOU to demand and to pursue such of the Omnipotent ?

See Why I always arrive to the conclusions that you suffer from delusions ?

 

Quote

I'm asking you if the Israelis comply, do you think they then have the right to peace with the Palestinians? 

Just ask yourself this question again ... slowly ... and comprehend ... what in fact you are saying ...

You may think yourself clever in trying to hide the stench of what you accuse of me here ... I as ever shall offer you no such satisfaction ...

~

 

Edited by third_eye
blind sighted
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Let me show you HYPOCRISY!


 

Quote

 

The US Surrendered Its Right To Accuse Russia Of War Crimes A Long Time Ago

However, the most disturbing aspect of Kerry’s allegation is that the accusations against Russia run in tandem with Saudi Arabia’s brutal assault on Yemen. Saudi Arabia, with the aid of a few regional players — and with ongoing American and British assistance (not to mention billion dollar arms sales) — has been bombing Yemen back into the Stone Age without any legal basis whatsoever. Often, the Saudi-led coalition has completely decimated civilian infrastructure, which has led a number of groups to accuse the coalition of committing war crimes in the process.

Civilians and civilian infrastructure have been struck so routinely that the world has become increasingly concerned the actual targets of the coalition strikes are civilians (what could be a greater recruitment tool for al-Qaeda and ISIS in Yemen?

Yemen is the poorest, most impoverished nation in the Arab world. The Saudi-led coalition has been striking refugee camps, schools, wedding parties and well over 100 hospitals to date. The coalition has been strongly suspected of using banned munitions such as cluster bombs. The country now has more than half a million children at serious risk of malnutrition. More than 21 million out of the total population of 25 million are in serious need of basic humanitarian assistance.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-11/us-surrendered-its-right-accuse-russia-war-crimes-long-time-ago


 

 

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8 minutes ago, and then said:

 

Yes I did. Its called...... lets ignore what I done.....just because someone else did it too....

 

 

 

Edited by seeder
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9 minutes ago, seeder said:

 

Yes I did. Its called...... lets ignore what I done.....just because someone else did it too....

 

 

 

4

I don't care if you ignore it or not, your choice.  I was pointing out that your hatred of my country because of our adventures in power are just like what your empire did when it COULD.  In fact, I suspect the blood toll was far worse, considering how long Britannia ruled the waves.  My point is not to disparage your country.  It's to point out your own hypocrisy.

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The US media front is deathly quiet about this recent US Saudi spat ...

~

 

Quote

 

US Warns Saudis After Deadly Strike in Yemen - Newser

www.newser.com/story/.../us-warns-saudis-after-deadly-strike-in-yemen.html
Newser

4 days ago - (Newser) – US officials are threatening to cut off aid after a deadly airstrike linked to Saudi Arabia killed 140 and wounded more than 500 at a funeral in Yemen's capital city of Sanaa

 

 

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5 hours ago, third_eye said:

The US media front is deathly quiet about this recent US Saudi spat ...

~

 

 

 

Apparently, Obama can't decide who he wants to support in this one.  He realizes (I think) that he can't stiff S.A. without serious consequences for his party's financial future.  But he really seems to want to support the Shia of Iran.  This action surprised me:

https://www.rt.com/news/362643-iran-warships-yemen-aden/

Khamenei seems to truly enjoy rubbing Oby's nose in it.  I think he knows where the line is but who knows for sure?  The ships might be there to supply a set of "eyes" since the cruise missiles blinded a few radar sites.  Just a guess.  It was foolish for Yemen to fire anti- ship missiles at the US Navy and they HAD to understand this so I wonder what the game is?

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2 hours ago, and then said:

Apparently, Obama can't decide who he wants to support in this one.  He realizes (I think) that he can't stiff S.A. without serious consequences for his party's financial future.  But he really seems to want to support the Shia of Iran.  This action surprised me:

https://www.rt.com/news/362643-iran-warships-yemen-aden/

Khamenei seems to truly enjoy rubbing Oby's nose in it.  I think he knows where the line is but who knows for sure?  The ships might be there to supply a set of "eyes" since the cruise missiles blinded a few radar sites.  Just a guess.  It was foolish for Yemen to fire anti- ship missiles at the US Navy and they HAD to understand this so I wonder what the game is?

I doubt that they themselves even knows it anymore ol'buddy ... of that I have no doubt ...

~

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