Claire. Posted September 26, 2016 #1 Share Posted September 26, 2016 U.S. accuses Russia of ‘barbarism’ and war crimes in Syria The United States accused Russia of “barbarism” and war crimes in Syria on Sunday as Moscow’s airstrikes over Aleppo pushed a humanitarian crisis there to new depths. The nations sparred verbally at an emergency U.N. Security Council meeting called to demand that Russia rein in its ally, Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, and halt the blistering attacks on Syria’s second city. “Instead of pursuing peace, Russia and Assad make war,” said Samantha Power, the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations. “What Russia is sponsoring and doing is not counter-terrorism. It is barbarism.” Read more: The Washington Post 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unusual Tournament Posted September 26, 2016 #2 Share Posted September 26, 2016 What a sad sight all this finger pointing has become. Everyone claiming the moral high ground and yet no one willing to solve the problem. Whatever legitimacy Putin and Assad had has been squandered on tit for tat politics. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted September 26, 2016 #3 Share Posted September 26, 2016 Correct me if I'm stupid, but isn't all war barbarism? Regardless of the reasons. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likely Guy Posted September 26, 2016 #4 Share Posted September 26, 2016 35 minutes ago, XenoFish said: Correct me if I'm stupid, but isn't all war barbarism? Regardless of the reasons. Oh, quit it with that stupid talk. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Hammerclaw Posted September 26, 2016 #5 Share Posted September 26, 2016 Carpet bombing civilian population centers went out of style after WW2. The Russians and Assad are trying to bring it back into fashion. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted September 26, 2016 #6 Share Posted September 26, 2016 1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said: Carpet bombing civilian population centers went out of style after WW2. The Russians and Assad are trying to bring it back into fashion. Yeah, why spend the extra rubles on a smart weapon when you get the bonus of extra terrorizing with the carpet effect. The only thing that really surprises me at this point is that there are any civilians left alive there now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted September 26, 2016 #7 Share Posted September 26, 2016 Yeah ... kill soldiers and shooting down war planes on allied missions with an Oops and then blame ... nice gig ... ~ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted September 26, 2016 #8 Share Posted September 26, 2016 . If America had been willing to work with the Syrian Army (and later Russia) - to stop the spread of Islamic extremist groups in Syria - instead of playing proxy army and propaganda 'games' and insisting Assad must go --- this situation --- whatever the truth of it would probably not exist - and Syrians would still have a country - but it looks like now it will probably never happen and Syrians have lost their country as they know it and eventually it will be split into regions - maybe this was the intention of Western Interference all along - (wonder how much land the Saudi Arabia style Islamic State will get..?) well if that was the intention - - the destabilizing and division of territory has, so far, been a great success - congratulations to all those involved in America, Britain and the other countries who took part --- *slow hand clap" . 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Merton Posted September 26, 2016 #9 Share Posted September 26, 2016 The Russian/Syrian behavior is barbaric, and efforts, such as the above, to rationalize and justify barbarism are themselves barbaric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted September 26, 2016 #10 Share Posted September 26, 2016 Quote As of 4:59 p.m. EST September 20, the U.S. and coalition have conducted a total of 15,134 strikes (9,883 Iraq / 5,251 Syria). U.S. has conducted 11,687 strikes in Iraq and Syria (6,704 Iraq / 4,983 Syria) Rest of Coalition has conducted 3,447 strikes in Iraq and Syria (3,179 Iraq / 268 Syria) The countries that have participated in the strikes include: In Iraq: (1) Australia, (2) Belgium, (3) Canada, (4) Denmark, (5) France, (6) Jordan, (7) The Netherlands, and (8) UK In Syria: (1) Australia, (2) Bahrain, (3) Canada, (4) Denmark, (5) France, (6) Jordan, (7) The Netherlands, (8) Saudi Arabia, (9) Turkey (10) UAE and (11) UK As of August 2016, U.S. and partner nation aircraft have flown an estimated 111,410 sorties in support of operations in Iraq and Syria. US Defence gov link ~ as of August 2016 and September 20 ... care to do the math here Frank ? ~ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted September 26, 2016 #11 Share Posted September 26, 2016 8 minutes ago, Frank Merton said: The Russian/Syrian behavior is barbaric, and efforts, such as the above, to rationalize and justify barbarism are themselves barbaric. . now now Frank ---- no need to get personal and call me barbaric -- two sides to every story . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bee Posted September 26, 2016 #12 Share Posted September 26, 2016 (edited) . I have been having a bit of a dot around on the subject and it seems that in terms of military strategy Aleppo is seen as key to the war -and was / is earmarked as a future ''rebel''' controlled capital - to rival Damascus - the West of the city is more or less Syrian / Assad controlled and the east more or less '''rebel''' / terrorist / Islamic State controlled...? so now we see why the propaganda war and the 'real' war has hotted up to the levels that it has - Those poor poor civilians caught up in it all --- whether they are in the West or East of the city - Accusations are flying around - but what is true and what is pure propaganda - we have to use out judgement to try and decide what's what on that - For example there is a 'curious' paragraph in this article --- referring to bombing on the ''''rebel''' side of the city - Now - no one should be dying and the death and suffering and ruined lives of the civilians is a horrible horrible tragedy - But - see the quote below --- the language is a bit vague - 'more than 100 bombs' - 'more than 80 people were dead' That's less than one person per bomb...? Suicide bombers in Iraqi markets have killed nearly as many or as many as that, in one go, with suicide vests or car bombs... What I'm getting at is - how much of the accusations of barbaric blanket bombing on the Rebel/terrorist/ISIS, held side of the city is true - and how much might be a propaganda construct - - - and that Russia / Syrian Army are still precision bombing - to minimize the loss of civilian life..?... https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/a-ferocious-assault-on-aleppo-suggests-the-us-may-be-wrong-on-syria/2016/09/23/909e33b0-80d9-11e6-9578-558cc125c7ba_story.html?tid=pm_world_pop_b Quote By nightfall, more than 100 bombs had landed, and more than 80 people were dead, said Ammar al-Selmo, head of the Aleppo branch of the White Helmets civil defense group. . Edited September 26, 2016 by bee format 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unusual Tournament Posted September 26, 2016 #13 Share Posted September 26, 2016 1 hour ago, Frank Merton said: The Russian/Syrian behavior is barbaric, and efforts, such as the above, to rationalize and justify barbarism are themselves barbaric. Yes barbaric is barbaric and there is no justification. You are right about that. But it didn't have to be like this. Obama's "Arab Spring" was a failure in every sense of the word. Name me one country that can honestly say that the Arab Spring brought a better life for those that live there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+and-then Posted September 26, 2016 #14 Share Posted September 26, 2016 5 hours ago, Silver_Lyre said: Yes barbaric is barbaric and there is no justification. You are right about that. But it didn't have to be like this. Obama's "Arab Spring" was a failure in every sense of the word. Name me one country that can honestly say that the Arab Spring brought a better life for those that live there? It's this kind of situation that proceeds from abject idiocy, wrapped as foreign policy by Leftist ideologues who have attained far greater power than they have the wit to safely wield. The sad thing is how easily Americans and the West in general seemed to be dazzled by the "hope of change" in the region when all this silliness began. It's a lesson the Left has to be retaught over and over... POWER is both the means AND the END. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorvir Posted September 26, 2016 #15 Share Posted September 26, 2016 It's Syria, how does one tell the difference from normal barbarism and Russian barbarism? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian hacktorp Posted September 26, 2016 #16 Share Posted September 26, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Thorvir Hrothgaard said: It's Syria, how does one tell the difference from normal barbarism and Russian barbarism? It's pretty simple really: US and western coalition bombing of Syrian Army troops (inside Syria and during a cease-fire), along with civilian casualties, isn't barbarism because, well, they proclaim those acts to be "unintentional". Russian precision bombing of US and western coalition agents, including Mossad (also inside Syria), who are directing ISIS troop movements is barbarism because such acts undermine US and western coalition "unintentional" (yet, planned) ISIS objectives. Clear as mud. Edited September 26, 2016 by hacktorp 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorvir Posted September 26, 2016 #17 Share Posted September 26, 2016 30 minutes ago, hacktorp said: It's pretty simple really: US and western coalition bombing of Syrian Army troops (inside Syria and during a cease-fire), along with civilian casualties, isn't barbarism because, well, they proclaim those acts to be "unintentional". Russian precision bombing of US and western coalition agents, including Mossad (also inside Syria), who are directing ISIS troop movements is barbarism because such acts undermine US and western coalition "unintentional" (yet, planned) ISIS objectives. Clear as mud. /facepalm 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Only_ Posted September 26, 2016 #18 Share Posted September 26, 2016 (edited) I think a part of the blame should be put on those who are financing, providing weapons, and intelligence to Al Qaeda terrorists in Aleppo. This is the primary reason why they are able to resist and prevent peace, they receive external help from their sponsors. Edited September 26, 2016 by TruthSeeker_ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian hacktorp Posted September 26, 2016 #19 Share Posted September 26, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, Thorvir Hrothgaard said: /facepalm Don't slap yourself too hard before you read this: Syria Claims To Have Recording Of Conversation Between ISIS And US Military Before Strike On Syrian Army Quote In a stunning allegation, one which would lead to dramatic geopolitical implications, the speaker of the People's Council of Syria said on Monday (today) that the Syrian intelligence possesses an audio recording of conversation between Islamic State terrorists and the US military taken just prior to the Washington-led coalition's airstrikes on the government troops near Deir ez-Zor on September 17 which left over 60 Syrian troops dead. Edited September 26, 2016 by hacktorp 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unusual Tournament Posted September 28, 2016 #20 Share Posted September 28, 2016 On 27 September 2016 at 2:17 AM, and then said: It's this kind of situation that proceeds from abject idiocy, wrapped as foreign policy by Leftist ideologues who have attained far greater power than they have the wit to safely wield. The sad thing is how easily Americans and the West in general seemed to be dazzled by the "hope of change" in the region when all this silliness began. It's a lesson the Left has to be retaught over and over... POWER is both the means AND the END. What about rightist ideologues like Bush and the rest of the neo-con crowd that screwed up? Mate lets be fair about this regardless of who runs the White House policy is the same. Well at least i think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlitterRose Posted September 28, 2016 #21 Share Posted September 28, 2016 On 9/25/2016 at 8:48 PM, Hammerclaw said: Carpet bombing civilian population centers went out of style after WW2. The Russians and Assad are trying to bring it back into fashion. We all saw the little boy from Aleppo. Come on, folks. You can't possibly condone that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorvir Posted September 28, 2016 #22 Share Posted September 28, 2016 36 minutes ago, ChaosRose said: We all saw the little boy from Aleppo. Come on, folks. You can't possibly condone that. He or anyone else didn't condone anything. Why are you making stuff up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlitterRose Posted September 28, 2016 #23 Share Posted September 28, 2016 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Thorvir Hrothgaard said: He or anyone else didn't condone anything. Why are you making stuff up? Ugh...Thor...I'm agreeing with Hammerclaw, and disagreeing with the many people here who have posted to the effect that they don't think it's barbaric. Edited September 28, 2016 by ChaosRose 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorvir Posted September 28, 2016 #24 Share Posted September 28, 2016 7 minutes ago, ChaosRose said: Ugh...Thor...I'm agreeing with Hammerclaw, and disagreeing with the many people here who have posted to the effect that they don't think it's barbaric. By claiming that he or anyone else condones such actions that are relevant to this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GlitterRose Posted September 28, 2016 #25 Share Posted September 28, 2016 Either it's barbaric to carpet bomb civilian populations or it isn't. The correct answer is that first one, for anyone who's having trouble. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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