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FBI Director "stop & frisk important tool"


OverSword

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Federal Bureau of Investigation Director James Comey told a House of Representatives panel on Wednesday that the police tactic known as "stop and frisk" is an important tool when used right.

Comey told the panel that police who search citizens without stating the reason should explain after the encounter why they decided to do so.

 

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So he let Hillary off the hook for espionage, destroying evidence, etc, but believes just chucking the 4th amendment out the window is just peachy huh?  Our government and it's various agencies have serious problems. 

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For folks that might like some more information on this...

RT article: https://www.rt.com/usa/361004-comey-stop-frisk-important-tool/

Information about Terry Stops- this is the case that started this law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_v._Ohio

Legal definitions: http://definitions.uslegal.com/t/terry-stop/

And an interesting 5 page PDF on the law, field examples, and analysis: https://www.fletc.gov/sites/default/files/imported_files/training/programs/legal-division/downloads-articles-and-faqs/research-by-subject/4th-amendment/terrystopupdate.pdf

 

My pennies.. I agree that when used legally and correctly, Terry Stops can be a valuable tool for law enforcement. However, I extremely strongly disagree that a stop and frisk with an explanation afterwards should be construed as a Terry Stop. That's just wrong, and shouldn't be considered even vaguely legal IMO. State your reasons first Mr. Officer.

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Terry stops I agree with, simply demanding to see someones I.D without giving a reason why, or facing arrest or detention, is not legal in some states.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_identify_statutes

Edited by South Alabam
asking to see an ID is legal in all states, demanding to see your ID or facing detention, or arrest, without reasonable articulate suspicion is not legal. I had to clarify what i wrote.
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" ... I don;t see the cops kiss none of the pretty white ladies around 'ere ... "

no wonder the NY cops are always in a bad mood ...

~

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The OP's post was a pleasant surprise since they expressed support for our Constitution. I expected to be contrary since stop-and-frisk was supported by a lot of folks on the right. It's hard to strongly condemn or strongly support this practice as it simultaneously threatens freedoms and saves lives. You feel like a hypocrite when you claim that you are a libertarian who makes an exception to save lives, and you feel like a hypocrite when you won't compromise your position when this refusal might lead to endangered citizens. :unsure:

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Other polices, the FBI would like that would be important tools.

 

1.  Children spy on your parents reports.

2.  Neighborhood check points

3. Mandatory Xrays

4. Self Signing Warrants

 5. A drone above every citizen!

 

Here's another Important Tool.

 

Spoiler

nbc-fires-donald-trump-after-he-calls-me

 

Whoops!  That's a Self-Important Tool.

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17 hours ago, OverSword said:

link

So he let Hillary off the hook for espionage, destroying evidence, etc, but believes just chucking the 4th amendment out the window is just peachy huh?  Our government and it's various agencies have serious problems. 

Whoa.... Isn't Mr Comey risking actually supporting Trump's stand on "Stop and Frisk". I wonder if Hillary will come out against Mr Comey for this? Perhaps Mr FBI might change his mind about indictment proceedings if that happens? :P

Edited by DieChecker
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A while back Des Moines set up DUI check points in Iowa.  They stopped every car and checked to see if you were drunk and if they spotted anything else they would search your car.  A bunch of Iowans sued and Des Moines stopped. 

This pretty much goes in the same vein as stop and frisk.  If that's the America you want, then by all means vote for it.  Stopping people on the street and taking their guns away is a better form of gun control then background checks ever will be.

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1 hour ago, Gromdor said:

A while back Des Moines set up DUI check points in Iowa.  They stopped every car and checked to see if you were drunk and if they spotted anything else they would search your car.  A bunch of Iowans sued and Des Moines stopped. 

This pretty much goes in the same vein as stop and frisk.  If that's the America you want, then by all means vote for it.  Stopping people on the street and taking their guns away is a better form of gun control then background checks ever will be.

Yep, they did the same things around my area.  But, it even got worse.  They were doing 'safety checks', in residential areas, on Sat. mornings. 

 

It's hard to blame the cops for being told to do that, but if that doesn't smack of Nazi Soldiers asking for "Papers, Please", then people have no idea how much freedom they are giving up.

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I may be wrong about this- but I think Terry Stops and Vehicular Checkpoints are legally two different things. There's different landmark cases and precedents associated with the creation of these things. Different legal pathways that can amount to pretty much the same thing depending on the situation.

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18 minutes ago, rashore said:

I may be wrong about this- but I think Terry Stops and Vehicular Checkpoints are legally two different things. There's different landmark cases and precedents associated with the creation of these things. Different legal pathways that can amount to pretty much the same thing depending on the situation.

You are right.  There are always multiple routes to the same end.  The end in this case is the police having the power to stop people who haven't committed a crime and search them.  It's not that far of a jump to stopping and searching people who are driving from stopping people who are walking.

These incidents in Iowa was a quite a few years back.  It might have been around the time that "Stop and Frisk" was going on in New York, even.  I'd have to dig more, but I believe that the whole Stop and Frisk program in New York was what gave the cops here the idea that the DUI checkpoints here would be okay.

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Personally I found the stop and frisk program to be nothing but tyrannical. Its yet another example of how dangerously far we have moved from protecting even the most basic civil liberties. Every cop who chose to follow those orders, and the people up top who came up with the idea should all at least be fired. At the VERY least. How can anyone look at the constitution, then conclude that its a lawful act to just search people who are not even suspected of anything? If that ever happened to me, id be going straight to a lawyer and suing the crap outta everyone, and demanding the cop who did it be arrested.  

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16 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

Personally I found the stop and frisk program to be nothing but tyrannical. Its yet another example of how dangerously far we have moved from protecting even the most basic civil liberties. Every cop who chose to follow those orders, and the people up top who came up with the idea should all at least be fired. At the VERY least. How can anyone look at the constitution, then conclude that its a lawful act to just search people who are not even suspected of anything? If that ever happened to me, id be going straight to a lawyer and suing the crap outta everyone, and demanding the cop who did it be arrested.  

Simple at least to me because of fear. 

Edited by Nightgale
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12 minutes ago, Nightgale said:

Simple at least to me because of fear. 

Yep. Fear is the same problem we see everywhere in this country. We have allowed the weak to take control of everything.

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No. Just no. No compromise on this.

How is this any different then basically having random stop and searches of your home?

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Quote

 

  • I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations.
     
  • If men were angels, no government would be necessary.
     
  • If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy.
     
  • It is a universal truth that the loss of liberty at home is to be charged to the provisions against danger, real or pretended, from abroad.
     
  • It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their own choice if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood.

 

Selected Quotes of James Madison ... Constitution Org link


I was going through Glenn Beck's The Original Argument ...

~

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47 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

No. Just no. No compromise on this.

How is this any different then basically having random stop and searches of your home?

As long as they only search the bad guys' house....:rolleyes:

 

I remember, not too long ago around here, a couple of young girls disappeared, horribly sad case.

Anyhow, during the local media frenzy, one interviewee actually said on camera "I think they should just search everyones house.  If they aren't hiding anything, they have no reason to be scared."

 

It was chilling.

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1 hour ago, preacherman76 said:

Yep. Fear is the same problem we see everywhere in this country. We have allowed the weak to take control of everything.

I can agree with this, but I'll even go so far to maybe not disagree, but it's more complicated than that. 

The part I agree with is weak-minded people have taken control at least from what we see, the part you could say I disagree with, and again it's not even so much disagree, but simply the strong let them do so. I'd go along with the answer to this being propaganda more than anything as to why that happened.

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2 hours ago, Gromdor said:

The Evansdale girls?  Weren't they found by a pond? 

Right, Lyric and Elizabeth. There were last seen at  Meyers Lake, in Evansdale.  About a mile from where i live.  They've build a really nice little island picnic area/memorial on the lake and called it Angel's Island.

They were actually found about 30 miles north of here, in a wetlands area.

I wish they would catch whoever did it.

Edited by supervike
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On 2016-09-30 at 10:55 AM, rashore said:

I may be wrong about this- but I think Terry Stops and Vehicular Checkpoints are legally two different things. There's different landmark cases and precedents associated with the creation of these things. Different legal pathways that can amount to pretty much the same thing depending on the situation.

The DUI spot checks are interesting because even though the federal court did find that DUI roadblocks met the Fourth Amendment’s definition of an unreasonable seizure, the court also found that because of the threat a drunk driver imposes on other motorists, they were a 'necessary means of protection' (an argument that could certainly be used when it comes to 'stop and frisk).

However, as several dissenting judges pointed out, the Constitution doesn’t make room for exceptions and, whether beneficial or not, DUI checkpoints are a clear violation of the Fourth Amendment, forcing drivers to participate in “suspicionless investigatory seizures.”

Ultimately, the U.S. Supreme Court decided to leave it up to each state to determine whether law officers could use DUI checkpoints to apprehend suspected drunk drivers. Following this ruling, eleven states passed laws to prohibit roadblocks, while the remaining 39 states continued to allow them.

Source: http://www.duicheckpoints.net/areduicheckpointsunconstitutional.html

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59 minutes ago, Clair said:

The DUI spot checks are interesting because even though the federal court did find that DUI roadblocks met the Fourth Amendment’s definition of an unreasonable seizure, the court also found that because of the threat a drunk driver imposes on other motorists, they were a 'necessary means of protection' (an argument that could certainly be used when it comes to 'stop and frisk).

Saying DUI check points are okay because they're a necessary means of protection sets a really bad precedent doesn't it? You implied as much in your post, but I'll go ahead and say it, what's to stop those in favor of stop and frisk from arguing the exact same thing? In fact that's what they ARE arguing among other things. Exceptions to the Fourth Amendment are wrong imo for that very reason.

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On ‎10‎/‎7‎/‎2016 at 4:24 PM, Clair said:

The DUI spot checks are interesting because even though the federal court did find that DUI roadblocks met the Fourth Amendment’s definition of an unreasonable seizure, the court also found that because of the threat a drunk driver imposes on other motorists, they were a 'necessary means of protection' (an argument that could certainly be used when it comes to 'stop and frisk).

 

 

So the court directly found them to be unconstitutional, yet somehow concluded it to be ok anyway??? Sounds like we need new federal judges. Instead of saying ok, lets see where else we can violate the constitution.

Edited by preacherman76
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