Where do we go after we die?

[McKenna]

I was just wondering after we die what's next?

we go live in the spirit world. In my personal belief.

[McKenna]

judging by your name you will probably go to hell

I hope your kidding. Please tell me your kidding. If your not. Please be nice. What did thug ever do to you.

[Denzanrom]

We have to go somewhere don't we? Probably the spirit world like McKenna said or we get reincarnated if we want to return to earth for whatever reason.

Maybe thats why the world is so rotten these days. The good guys die and go to heaven and STAY there up until God knows when. Maybe till we clean up our world or something.

[Atheist God]

You no where we go when we die, we go into a box and rot in the ground until we are nothing.

There in my opinion is nothing after we die, and as hard as it is to fathom it is true. The afterlife is just mans way of coping with his/hers eventual demise.

Whether or not people except it, it is the truth, on that note life is to short to worry about death just have fun.

[ShaunZero]

You no where we go when we die, we go into a box and rot in the ground until we are nothing.

There in my opinion is nothing after we die, and as hard as it is to fathom it is true. The afterlife is just mans way of coping with his/hers eventual demise.

Whether or not people except it, it is the truth, on that note life is to short to worry about death just have fun.

Wow... You sound like a fundi Christian. Stop passing your non-proven beliefs off as truth please.

I personally sit on the fence. I hope there is an afterlife. I don't blame anyone for hoping they are rewarded after death; life is nothing easy.

1. You can't prove it either way at this moment.

2. *In my opinion* there is more to support life after death, than there is to support nothingness after death.

3. The only thing to support nothing after death, would be something similar to the following:

If you believe the brain is all there is to consciousness(Which is VERY much up to debate), then you have to *assume* once the brain dies, the personality dies, hence the "person" no longer exists.

[Atheist God]

Wow... You sound like a fundi Christian. Stop passing your non-proven beliefs off as truth please.

Stop passing yours then... The OP asked and I answered if you have a problem with this take it up with a mod

I personally sit on the fence. I hope there is an afterlife. I don't blame anyone for hoping they are rewarded after death; life is nothing easy.

So your an agnostic then which is basically an athiest w/o the balls...

1. You can't prove it either way at this moment.

No but the laws of energy transfer etc. suggest otherwise.

2. *In my opinion* there is more to support life after death, than there is to support nothingness after death.

Other then beleif and faith in one there is no evidence to support an afterlife.

3. The only thing to support nothing after death, would be something similar to the following:

If you believe the brain is all there is to consciousness(Which is VERY much up to debate), then you have to *assume* once the brain dies, the personality dies, hence the "person" no longer exists.

I can proove right now that the consciousness is infact nothing more then mere biochem/electrical reactions in the brain...

When you take LSD for example it alters your consciousness via chemical stimulus. If it was energy as they say it is it should not be altered. You know just by cutting a peice of someones brain out you can completely remove their mind as well. Again if it is not in the brain and it is energy then how come you can destroy it by physical means.

There is no soul and there is no afterlife but again whether you beleive it is your choice. I'm just telling it the way it is from a logical and scientific stand point.

[ShaunZero]

So your an agnostic then which is basically an athiest w/o the balls... rofl.gif

Agnostic has nothing to do with the belief in an afterlife. Afterlife and God does not have to be synonymous(sp?).

No but the laws of energy transfer etc. suggest otherwise.

Elaborate. Because energy can't be destroyed. So the energy in your body still lives on.

Other then beleif and faith in one there is no evidence to support an afterlife.

Incorrect. There can only be a certain type of evidence. An afterlife would be a "spiritual dimension", so if you wan't evidence, don't expect to find physical evidence, that would be illogical. We have NDEs, OBEs, Astral Projection, etc.. All debateable, but none discredited to the point where it's fact or even almost fact that they are false. Hence still *very possible* evidence. No reason to just brush all of these off so easily.

When you take LSD for example it alters your consciousness via chemical stimulus. If it was energy as they say it is it should not be altered. You know just by cutting a peice of someones brain out you can completely remove their mind as well. Again if it is not in the brain and it is energy then how come you can destroy it by physical means.

There is no soul and there is no afterlife but again whether you beleive it is your choice. I'm just telling it the way it is from a logical and scientific stand point.

You do know that the above does not prove that consciousness is a biproduct of the brain right? That only proves that altering the brain, can also alter your consciousness. Read my consciousness topic for more insight on what I'm getting at. One theory is that consciousness uses the brain as a tool to *experience* "physical reality" rather than observe it.

NDE/OBE/Etc claims should be looked into instead of just brushed off. NDEs, why should we believe they are just halucinations? Especially when some have then when the brain is clinically dead.

Also, people say that NDEs are as vivid as reality itself. Many have NDEs when their brain is clinicaly dead, hence the brain must not be functioning the best it can, if at all. Therefore, how can one experience something as vivid as reality, when the brain is not working properly? The answer can be 1 of 2 things

1. We don't need to use as much brain power, as we do already, if any at all, to experience reality.

2. NDEs are a real experience, and you do not need the brain to experience it. Hence *something*, most likely the consciousness lives on after physical death.

And my topic: http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...showtopic=79284

Edited November 16, 2006 by Zero of Deism

[Atheist God]

Agnostic has nothing to do with the belief in an afterlife. Afterlife and God does not have to be synonymous(sp?).

Doesn't have to be but it is none the less.

Elaborate. Because energy can't be destroyed. So the energy in your body still lives on.

Your right energy doesn't die but it is also not a conscious being either. Technically everything is made of energy but that is for another topic.

Incorrect. There can only be a certain type of evidence. An afterlife would be a "spiritual dimension", so if you wan't evidence, don't expect to find physical evidence, that would be illogical. We have NDEs, OBEs, Astral Projection, etc.. All debateable, but none discredited to the point where it's fact or even almost fact that they are false. Hence still *very possible* evidence. No reason to just brush all of these off so easily.

Again it is all heresay there is no evidence of an afterlife or a God. Astral Projection etc is brushed off as no one who claims psychic ability etc ever prooves they can do it.

You do know that the above does not prove that consciousness is a biproduct of the brain right? That only proves that altering the brain, can also alter your consciousness. Read my consciousness topic for more insight on what I'm getting at. One theory is that consciousness uses the brain as a tool to *experience* "physical reality" rather than observe it.

If altering the brain alters consciousness then yes the consciousness resides in the brain. If the consciousness did not reside in the brain then it could not be altered.

NDE/OBE/Etc claims should be looked into instead of just brushed off. NDEs, why should we believe they are just halucinations? Especially when some have then when the brain is clinically dead.

No one has ever come back after brain death, they have when their hearts stopped but once the brain activity ceases and the brain dies that person is dead. The only thing keeping someone alive after brain death is a life support system.

The brain activity does not instantly stop after the heart does. There is a window in which if you get pulse back that person can live with little to no brain damage. Any longer then just a few minutes will result in the brain beginning to break down.

[Leonardo]

If altering the brain alters consciousness then yes the consciousness resides in the brain. If the consciousness did not reside in the brain then it could not be altered.

Have to disagree with you on this point I'm afraid, GanjaGuru. The consciousness would not have to reside in the brain for an alteration of the brain via chemical or physical means to alter your consciousness. It could be, as Zero says, the brain is simply the 'eye of the mind'. Also don't rule out the possibility that only part of the consciousness may reside in the brain.

Edited November 16, 2006 by Leonardo

[ShaunZero]

Your right energy doesn't die but it is also not a conscious being either. Technically everything is made of energy but that is for another topic.

In that case, the brain can't be conscious either. So why are we conscious? Everything is made of energy.

Again it is all heresay there is no evidence of an afterlife or a God. Astral Projection etc is brushed off as no one who claims psychic ability etc ever prooves they can do it.

No, you'd like to believe there is no evidence. I bet you haven't ever looked into any of these phenomena, but accepted what other "skeptics" said. I could go on forever discussing the afterlife, NDEs, and OBEs with you, but let's do it on another topic.

If altering the brain alters consciousness then yes the consciousness resides in the brain. If the consciousness did not reside in the brain then it could not be altered.

Wrong, you're limiting the possibilities too much, hence stunting the possibility to actually know the truth, even if the truth is that consciousness is physical. And why could it not be altered? It's simple logic. If the consciousness uses the brain as a tool to experience physical reality, then altering that tool, will also alter the way which we view physical reality.

No one has ever come back after brain death, they have when their hearts stopped but once the brain activity ceases and the brain dies that person is dead. The only thing keeping someone alive after brain death is a life support system.

The brain activity does not instantly stop after the heart does. There is a window in which if you get pulse back that person can live with little to no brain damage. Any longer then just a few minutes will result in the brain beginning to break down.

v

http://www.near-death.com/

Read it before you bash it. Also, I never stated anything about the heart. I said some have NDEs WHILE BRAIN DEAD. Meaning how can someone experience something as vivid as reality(Even if it's a trick of the mind), when the brain is either not working correctly, or not working at all? Does that mean we don't need the brain to experience?

I don't have much time to get deep into it, but I might later tonight. (If I don't get addicted to FFXI again tonight XD)

Edited November 17, 2006 by Zero of Deism

[Araezel]

It would be pointless for any species to be created with no purpose other than existing for only one lifetime, and then become nothing when death comes.

There should be a soul inside every body, and the purpose of life in my opinon, is to grow, learn, acquire as much knowledge and experience as a person is willing to. Then when death comes, a person transitions from one realm to another. What realm, I guess you can say spirit realm, as that is what most people call it.

[ShaunZero]

I think that we all deserve something of the sort. Life isn't easy. I'm not a Christian, but I felt for a woman I heard speak to my mom the other day. She was telling my mom how her mother is dying and she has to take care of her. She was discussing all the things she has to go through, then she said "I sure hope we go to Heaven when we die" and she had tears in her eyes.

Edited November 17, 2006 by Zero of Deism

[Leonardo]

Read it before you bash it. Also, I never stated anything about the heart. I said some have NDEs WHILE BRAIN DEAD. Meaning how can someone experience something as vivid as reality(Even if it's a trick of the mind), when the brain is either not working correctly, or not working at all? Does that mean we don't need the brain to experience?

I don't have much time to get deep into it, but I might later tonight. (If I don't get addicted to FFXI again tonight XD)

Zero,

Here is another site you might want to check out.

I know it's a few years old, but I'm fairly certain it still remains that no-one who has ever suffered brain death has recovered. The accounts in the site you linked to were probably in a coma or persistent vegetative state. People have recovered from these, but they aren't brain death.

I agree with you though, that consciousness does not have to reside in the brain.

[Mr. sasquatch]

BurnSide, None of the things that you mensioned will happen to me!

After I die, I will be sent to a lab, where Intelligent Nerds will perform scientific experiments.

That way, I will continue to help humanity even after my death!

[ssjtin]

Usually a grave or an urn or something like that.

Of course nobody can prove if there is anything more in the afterlife, but based on what we know its more likely that there is nothing. Souls and afterlifes are things made up by man, while the anatomical side of death is proven. People make up so much crap bt it all ends up the same....there is proof that when a person dies there brain and heart stops working, no proof of the spiritual side.

[Cadetak]

You end up in Mephisto's Realm

P.S. Get the reference get a cookie.

[Cebrakon]

I was just wondering after we die what's next?

Burnside may be the moderator, but pay no attention to him. He is a strict believer in the articles of faith of the religion of science, sometimes called scientism.

I am delighted to report that the evidence for reincarnation is reproducible and rigorous. Prof. Ian Stevenson, of the University of Virginia has devoted a lifetime to studying reincarnation in two different ways, and each allow us to rule out everything but true reincarnation of the spirit. Meanwhile NDE experiences with veridical details show that we first go to the Bardo, Tibetan for "the between." Most of the time, it is a pleasant experience. But in the details it is different for everyone. We don't stay there forever, so it is nothing like the Christian heaven and hell, which are pure superstition.

There are astounding consequences of the reincarnation and NDE studies by the Societies for Psychical Research (SPRs), first founded in 1882. Firstly, it means that the spirit has no interactions Via the EM force, and is thus invisible and can pass freely through physical objects. This is the foundation and grounding point for all further research regarding the mind, consciousness, life after death and so forth. It means we can forever separate investigations of the brain and investigations of the mind. They are two quite different things, composed of different kinds of matter.

There is an enormous amount of good scientific work by members of the SPRs, and much that isn't, especially by parapsychology, which is a pseudo-science, IMHO.

Hope this gives you a starting place for further research.

~~Cebrakon, master of forbidden sciences

[boorite]

No one has ever come back after brain death...

Not true. One of the more spectacular recent cases was Tanya Liu, who was "brain dead" for at least two months.

The brain activity does not instantly stop after the heart does.

Right. It takes about 20 seconds for a person's EEG to flatline. At the risk of pointing out the obvious, many victims of cardiac arrest have been resuscitated.

I always thought that one's personality was limited in time just as it's limited in space, and the thought didn't particularly bother me. I didn't feel a need to fill up more time any more than I feel a need to fill up more space. If death was the end of my personality in time, what did I care? I'd be unconscious. But now I'm finding the evidence of survival too strong to ignore. Others are welcome to disagree. That way, one of us has to be right.

[hadeka]

No one knows what happens after death ...

But i guess, that there is nothing after death ... because it is the brain that is responsible for perception ,,, and once it dies ,, perception cease to exist ...

who knows ??!

[hadeka]

Not true. One of the more spectacular recent cases was Tanya Liu, who was "brain dead" for at least two months.

Excuse me !!!

So, what researched found ??! What "Tanya" said ??! did he experience anything during the "brain dead" state ?!!

Im very curios to know ...

[boorite]

Excuse me !!!

So, what researched found ??! What "Tanya" said ??! did he experience anything during the "brain dead" state ?!!

Im very curios to know ...

Do a Google search for "Tanya Liu."

I don't know what she experienced during her months of EEG flatline. The point is that she returned to consciousness after being in a "brain dead" state.

[Jester of Dreams]

When people dead and come back, can they act like someone else thats way different their personality that they had before?

[Empurpledsoul]

Here is another interesting perception of what lies beyond our lives in this world as presented by Michael Newton, a past life regressionist who inadvertantly discovered some people were revealing to him what happened in between life incarations:

http://www.near-death.com/newton.html

I have read both of his books. The information he was receiving through his clients was really interesting, but what I found even more interesting was how Michael changed his percpetion/line of questioning. In the first book he was really irritating to me as he questioned because he asked the most unimportant questions (in my opinion) and didn't fully respect the wisdom he was tapping into. He kept trying to pressure them to tell him stuff that didn't matter or wasn't possible to be shared. His line of questioning of course was reflective of his personal belief set about paranormal or mysteries of life.

By the second book I could see a change in the questioner. It was easier to read.

I have had a nde and know others who have also. I know that the energy that makes us live and breath in these wonderful amazing body creations does not come from this realm but another and when our life is over we return to the energy from which we came.

This source of our energy is also the source of the power that fuels the whole of the universe. We are not separate from it, but on earth we can certainly deny it completely.

I have no problem with the rejection of "God" as humans have chosen to define in terms of human personality.

But there is no doubt for me that we come from something far beyond our comprehension and it lies beyond the walls of this dimension. We have all chosen to come here for the experience of the 3rd dimension with its unique qualities like gravity, time and sensation. Human life provides incredible growth for the souls consciousness through experience of human emotions and physical sensations.

The soul is basically ethical. Morality does not come from religion, in fact, religion messes with people big time in trying to define morality as one set code or standard, simply because it leads to war when there is no agreement on this. Humans are amazing because they can show such extreme characteristics, from cold, heartless destruction to deep mountain moving love and compassion for one another. This is why we choose the experience, it is unlike any other. It is difficult here, but what is gained can never be underestimated.

While the work of Michael Newton is quite detailed and a fascinating read for those who are not locked in a box on the topic of life and death and rebirth, I believe deep inside we all know we have our own soul and that once we leave this life it goes on.

For those who are locked in the box that says, you live, you die and then there is nothing, they will certainly gain what they need from their experience of limitation.

We all choose what to believe and how to live, whether we want to admit it or not.

And when we are done we do have accountabiilty for what we created here in our choosing. But the judging is done by ourselves, through our human lens mixed with our soul wisdom, after we leave this life. How we judged life and ourselves and others while we were here will influence how we judge our own life when we stand before the council to do so. In the end we make amends with all we have done. But we also receive all that was good to keep forever.

Peace!

[Empurpledsoul]

When people dead and come back, can they act like someone else thats way different their personality that they had before?

I would say yes, it might seem as though a complete personaity change has taken place. This has been noted in NDE studies. It doesn't happen to everyone. What it is reflecting is the experience of having done a review of their life actions (these reviews are complete, not like movies we view here, but full of all that you caused others to feel and you feel it from inside them and not from the outside just guessing). Because this can be quite profound in impact it can cause a complete about face in people.

It has also been noted that some people have greater psychic abilities after a NDE. Being able to see energy fields around people (auras) or hear other peoples thoughts when you previously could not do it before can be quite unnerving at first. This would definitely affect personality, since human personality is formed by how we view ourselves, how we view others and how we view the world around us to a great degree. We come with a basic soul personality, but life then shapes who we present ourselves to be based on impressions we have received.

More soul awareness is often possible for those who have gone past the perceived reality of this dimension to death and then back with a more complete awareness and memory of the journey and its purpose.

Thus it could appear to one who has not had the NDE experience that the other has changed 'personality' as a result of their experience.

Peace!

[TheOsirian]

You wake up on the Nebuchadnezzer and take all your orders from then on from a guy named Morpheus - until your latent abilities swing back into action.

Wouldn't that be cool though?