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New Object Vies for Kuiper Belt Record


Waspie_Dwarf

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New Object Vies for Kuiper Belt Record

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Right now 2014 UZ224 lies nearly 14 billion kilometers away, ranking it third among the most distant objects known in the Kuiper Belt.

Early today the IAU's Minor Planet Center announced that astronomers in Chile have discovered a Kuiper Belt object, designated 2014 UZ224, that's currently 91.6 astronomical units from the Sun. This corresponds to 13.7 billion kilometers (8.5 billion miles), nearly three times farther out than Pluto is at the moment. Only two other known KBOs are more distant: Eris (96.2 a.u.) and V774104 (103 a.u.).

arrow3.gif  Read more: Sky and Telescope

 

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Welcome {Dwarf} Planet X

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1 hour ago, paperdyer said:

Welcome {Dwarf} Planet X

More probably a Death Star or a Borg cube (I don't know which one would be the worst). 

 

On a side note,  the article says that Eris is bigger than Pluto, but wasn't that rectified with New Horizon's data and actually Pluto would appear to be slightly bigger than Eris?

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11 minutes ago, Parsec said:

On a side note,  the article says that Eris is bigger than Pluto, but wasn't that rectified with New Horizon's data and actually Pluto would appear to be slightly bigger than Eris?

Pluto has a (slightly) larger diameter, Eris is more massive, so you are right, the article linked to on the front page is not entirely accurate.

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1 hour ago, Waspie_Dwarf said:

Pluto has a (slightly) larger diameter, Eris is more massive, so you are right, the article linked to on the front page is not entirely accurate.

Waspie, are you saying Pluto is larger then Eris but Eris is more dense?

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Well then it sounds like eris is more suited for the title of planet x.

I cant wait to see how the orbit balances out with the nice flower pattern we are seeing in the outer dwarf planet orbits.
Which also leaves me another question for you experts. If the sun is travelling through space at such a fast speed then why would most of the orbits be circular instead of exhibiting drag?

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3 hours ago, Why not said:

Waspie, are you saying Pluto is larger then Eris but Eris is more dense?

Yep.

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10 hours ago, Nnicolette said:

Well then it sounds like eris is more suited for the title of planet x.

Absolutely not. As has already been stated Eris has a smaller diameter than Pluto. It os a tiny world and is, quite correctly, classified as a dwarf planet.

10 hours ago, Nnicolette said:

Which also leaves me another question for you experts. If the sun is travelling through space at such a fast speed then why would most of the orbits be circular instead of exhibiting drag?

Firstly none of the orbits are circular, they are ellipses.

Secondly drag is an effect caused by the resistance of a fluid through which an object is travelling (for example water or air). Since space is, as near as makes no difference, a vacuum there can be no drag.

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I wonder what they will name it?

I'm voting for something star-wars-ish. Maybe Jabba, or Windu.

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20 hours ago, Nnicolette said:

Well then it sounds like eris is more suited for the title of planet x.

I cant wait to see how the orbit balances out with the nice flower pattern we are seeing in the outer dwarf planet orbits.
Which also leaves me another question for you experts. If the sun is travelling through space at such a fast speed then why would most of the orbits be circular instead of exhibiting drag?

Drag caused by what?

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1 hour ago, JesseCuster said:

Drag caused by what?

Aether.

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12 hours ago, Thorvir Hrothgaard said:

Aether.

No, no, no... The Aether is safe with the Collector for now....

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On 10/14/2016 at 1:43 AM, Waspie_Dwarf said:

Absolutely not. As has already been stated Eris has a smaller diameter than Pluto. It os a tiny world and is, quite correctly, classified as a dwarf planet.

Firstly none of the orbits are circular, they are ellipses.

Secondly drag is an effect caused by the resistance of a fluid through which an object is travelling (for example water or air). Since space is, as near as makes no difference, a vacuum there can be no drag.

By drag i meant highly eliptical orbits or trailing. You know they would have to go extra fast on one side to get around the sun as its speeding right? Unless it was a torpedo motion. But that just doesnt seem like it would work because they wouldnt keep up. Any idea which direction the sun is moving in relation to the orbits? The highly eliptical outer orbits are going all different ways.

Edited by Nnicolette
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57 minutes ago, Nnicolette said:

By drag i meant highly eliptical orbits or trailing. You know they would have to go extra fast on one side to get around the sun as its speeding right? Unless it was a torpedo motion. But that just doesnt seem like it would work because they wouldnt keep up. Any idea which direction the sun is moving in relation to the orbits? The highly eliptical outer orbits are going all different ways.

You are making little sense. This is science, you don't get to just make up your own definitions.

It has been explained to you what drag is and why there is none in space.

I don't see how it is possible to explain it any more simply. 

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6 hours ago, Nnicolette said:

By drag i meant highly eliptical orbits or trailing. You know they would have to go extra fast on one side to get around the sun as its speeding right? Unless it was a torpedo motion. But that just doesnt seem like it would work because they wouldnt keep up. Any idea which direction the sun is moving in relation to the orbits? The highly eliptical outer orbits are going all different ways.

Firstly; yes there are features of interplanetary space that do indeed induce drag, albeit infinitesimally, but drag nonetheless. Every time that the Earth crosses the debris cone of a comet (leading to meteor showers) there is drag induced on the planet. In fact anything that in any way impedes an orbit (and it really does not matter how small that effect is) is drag. There is also Gravitational drag which is clearly apparent because objects are forced into an orbit instead of maintaining what would otherwise be a rectilinear trajectory.

As for the corrected definition from the IAU (International Astronomical Union):

"The IAU therefore resolves that planets and other bodies in our Solar System, except satellites, be defined into three distinct categories in the following way:

(1) A "planet" is a celestial body that: (a) is in orbit around the Sun, (b) has sufficient mass for its self-gravity to overcome rigid body forces so that it assumes a hydrostatic equilibrium (nearly round) shape, and (c) has cleared the neighbourhood around its orbit.

(2) A "dwarf planet" is a celestial body that: (a) is in orbit around the Sun, (b) has sufficient mass for its self-gravity to overcome rigid body forces so that it assumes a hydrostatic equilibrium (nearly round) shape2, (c) has not cleared the neighbourhood around its orbit, and (d) is not a satellite.

(3) All other objects, except satellites, orbiting the Sun shall be referred to collectively as "Small Solar System Bodies".

Therefore. assuming the requirements at A are met, then Mass becomes the defining intrinsic requirement.

Just to clear things up a little.

Edited by keithisco
Why not?
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" You know they would have to go extra fast on one side to get around the sun as its speeding right?"  No

Ride in a car at 60 miles per hour.  Move your hand forward to change the station on the radio at 2 miles per hour, compared to you.  To someone outside, your head is doing 60 mph, your hand is doing 62.  Now move your hand back.  To the person outside it is doing 58, but compared to you it's still only 2 mph.

The planets are "in the same car" as the Sun. So they don't have to seep up to keep up with the Sun.   

Elliptical orbits in Mercury to Neptune and maybe Pluto are not due to any drag, they are due to the gravitational forces of all the other planets pulling and tugging on each other all the time.  There forces are relatively small but they are always there and always pulling in directions that change all the time. 

In the case of these rocks / ice blocks out past Neptune, their orbits probably stated off elliptical and have stayed that way, since they come from a long way out and not always in the plane of the ecliptic.   

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8 hours ago, Waspie_Dwarf said:

You are making little sense. This is science, you don't get to just make up your own definitions.

It has been explained to you what drag is and why there is none in space.

I don't see how it is possible to explain it any more simply. 

So, we're back to aether, right? /jk :P 

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On 13/10/2016 at 9:48 PM, Why not said:

Waspie, are you saying Pluto is larger then Eris but Eris is more dense?

You do realise that you just said the ruler of the underworld is fat and the goddess of strife and discord is stupid? 

That's not wise. At all.

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On 10/16/2016 at 5:04 AM, Nnicolette said:

By drag i meant highly eliptical orbits or trailing. You know they would have to go extra fast on one side to get around the sun as its speeding right? Unless it was a torpedo motion. But that just doesnt seem like it would work because they wouldnt keep up. Any idea which direction the sun is moving in relation to the orbits? The highly eliptical outer orbits are going all different ways.

Imagine you're on a speeding train travelling at 100mph.  You have an empty spacious carriage with 2 people in it.  One person stands still in the middle of the carriage while you run in circles around them.

Do you "have to go extra fast on one side" to get around them as they're speeding?  Nope, because they're speeding relative to what's outside the train, they're not speeding relative to you.  You can run in circles around them the same way you would if you were both in the train station car park.

Similarly, the sun isn't moving relative to the planets, the planets and sun are travelling together through space, and so just like you don't need to adjust your speed or put in extra effort to run around your friend because you're on a train, the planets don' t need "extra speed" to catch up with the sun when they're orbiting it.  The solar system is chasing the sun through space, it's all travelling together as a single system, just like you and your friend and the train.

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2 hours ago, JesseCuster said:

Imagine you're on a speeding train travelling at 100mph.  You have an empty spacious carriage with 2 people in it.  One person stands still in the middle of the carriage while you run in circles around them.

Do you "have to go extra fast on one side" to get around them as they're speeding?  Nope, because they're speeding relative to what's outside the train, they're not speeding relative to you.  You can run in circles around them the same way you would if you were both in the train station car park.

Similarly, the sun isn't moving relative to the planets, the planets and sun are travelling together through space, and so just like you don't need to adjust your speed or put in extra effort to run around your friend because you're on a train, the planets don' t need "extra speed" to catch up with the sun when they're orbiting it.  The solar system is chasing the sun through space, it's all travelling together as a single system, just like you and your friend and the train.

Thank you but it still doesnt make sense to me.  On the train we are riding inside the car and the air is travelling too. In space we are not inside the sun but travelling around it, so even though theres not a lot of air out there i still dont see why we are not trailing. If the sun is moving through space its still moving whether or not you say its in relation to the planets, if its moving its moving and they must be keeping up. Are you saying its because we're encased in the suns heliospere?

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On 10/15/2016 at 10:04 PM, Waspie_Dwarf said:

You are making little sense. This is science, you don't get to just make up your own definitions.

It has been explained to you what drag is and why there is none in space.

I don't see how it is possible to explain it any more simply. 

Thats funny because you didnt explain anything at all you just got rude and snippy about it as usual. The other answers were appreciated and eloquently put, however... The analogy used was nice but it isnt quite the same. Passengers riding inside a train full of air of course travel with the train thats obvious. Try explaining how they can run in circles around the train as it speeds, that would be a little more congruent. We are not riding in an enclosed pocket of air unless what you are trying to say is that what the heliosphere is, but then again you didnt say anything like that its just what i gathered from Jesse's answer after skimming through the space wasted on constant rudeness toward anyone that is interested in actually learning instead of acting like they know everything which is sadly too predominant here. Maybe you cant understand the concept but luckily everyone else that answered did.

I was just wondering which way the sun is circling in relation to which direction the planets are circling. I wouldnt say that was answered more like nobody seems to know. Is it like a torsion field? Do we we circle the sides as it moves forward (or what would seem "up" to us) or are we flying around the front of it as it goes? It really does make a difference.

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42 minutes ago, Nnicolette said:

Thank you but it still doesnt make sense to me.  On the train we are riding inside the car and the air is travelling too. In space we are not inside the sun but travelling around it, so even though theres not a lot of air out there i still dont see why we are not trailing. If the sun is moving through space its still moving whether or not you say its in relation to the planets, if its moving its moving and they must be keeping up. Are you saying its because we're encased in the suns heliospere?

There isn't "not a lot of air" in space.  There's no air in space.   You originally asked about drag.  Drag is caused by movement through a fluid (liquid or gas).  Space is a vacuum so there's nothing to cause drag.  The sun's heliosphere has nothing to do with the situation.  If it helps, imagine there's a vacuum inside and outside the train and thus air is removed from the situation.

You say that "if its moving its moving and they must be keeping up" referring to the planets.  Well, if the train is moving then the train is moving, and a passenger inside the train must be keeping up, right?  But passengers inside the train don't have to keep up despite the fact that the train is cruising along at 100mph.  They are along for the ride with train just as the planets are along for the ride with the sun.  Gravity keeps the whole solar system bound together as a system despite the fact that it's whizzing around the galaxy at hundreds of kilometres per second, the system moves together as a whole and thus no part of it needs to do anything to keep up with the rest. 

And passengers can walk up and down the train with no special effort or speed required despite the fact that they and the train are whizzing along at 100mpg, just like the planets can happily orbit the sun without a care for the fact that they and the sun are whizzing around the galaxy at hundreds of kilometres per second.

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48 minutes ago, Nnicolette said:

I was just wondering which way the sun is circling in relation to which direction the planets are circling. I wouldnt say that was answered more like nobody seems to know. Is it like a torsion field? Do we we circle the sides as it moves forward (or what would seem "up" to us) or are we flying around the front of it as it goes? It really does make a difference.

The "circling" of the sun has nothing to do with the situation.  I'm not sure whether you mean the rotation of the sun or its orbit around the galaxy.  Either way has no bearing on the matter.  

Saying that it really does make a difference is like saying that it makes a difference as to which direction the train is travelling so you can figure out how to walk from one end of the carriage to the other.  It doesn't.

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On 10/22/2016 at 7:52 AM, Nnicolette said:

Thank you but it still doesnt make sense to me.  On the train we are riding inside the car and the air is travelling too. In space we are not inside the sun but travelling around it, so even though theres not a lot of air out there i still dont see why we are not trailing. If the sun is moving through space its still moving whether or not you say its in relation to the planets, if its moving its moving and they must be keeping up. Are you saying its because we're encased in the suns heliospere?

I think it is a issue of inertia. The planets will follow along with the Sun, because there is almost zero resistance. If the Sun was for some reason to accelerate, then you'd see some changes to the orbits of the planets. Such acceleration might come due to reactions with other nearby stars, but the affect of those far off stars is so small it may not even be measurable in practical terms.

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