Jump to content
Join the Unexplained Mysteries community today! It's free and setting up an account only takes a moment.
- Sign In or Create Account -

Us v Them


Kismit

Recommended Posts

It's been a long time since I last posed this question. some of you might find it odd  to think of me as an old times at UM,  But during my long and extensive time here, I have witnessed many occasions when posters have generalized a person and placed them into certain groups. Not once did any good ever come from it. But still we continue to do it.

A clear example of this is posters currently placing other posters in either the leftist liberal gang or the extremist right wingers. No individual should be judged by a mass and placed in an assumed group with an assumed mentality, but still we do it.

Does anyone have a theory on why we continue as a species to create Us v's Them mentalities? My concerns is that we do it because attacking an impersonal object, in this case a group, is far easier than assessing an actual person individually ? 

Theories?

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Our brains are designed to find patterns and catarogies things. It's how we evolved.

Human nature and all.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's very true, but we are evolved creatures, we learn, we can pass on our learning, we have known for a long time that there is no Them, and yet it is still done. I would bet a good two dollars on the fact that posters who have recently complained about, the right wing. would never say things like, the Jews or, the blacks.

We have evolved to recognize and group but something is blocking the next step in evolution when it comes to thinking.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Our brains are designed to find patterns and catarogies things. It's how we evolved.

Human nature and all.

^^^ this right here...

Plus our goverments love to splice us up into larger groups,divide and conquer type of situation.

No one ever enjoyed power when everyone gets along ;)

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Duality mindset and the idea that we are somehow 'separate' entities that live isolated lives in a universe of many things, is where I see the source of this.  But this gentleman put it far more succinctly.

 

“When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent.  Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.”  Jiddu Krishnamurti

 

edit to add name to the quote

 

 

Edited by quiXilver
  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, CrimsonKing said:

^^^ this right here...

Plus our goverments love to splice us up into larger groups,divide and conquer type of situation.

No one ever enjoyed power when everyone gets along ;)

Crimson, I like this and I get your point but it still groups, the government.  when infact, the government is made up of individuals with different ideals and goals.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, quiXilver said:

Duality mindset and the idea that we are somehow 'separate' entities that life isolated lives in a universe of many things, is where I see the source of this.  But this gentleman put it far more succinctly.

 

“When you call yourself an Indian or a Muslim or a Christian or a European, or anything else, you are being violent.  Do you see why it is violent? Because you are separating yourself from the rest of mankind. When you separate yourself by belief, by nationality, by tradition, it breeds violence. So a man who is seeking to understand violence does not belong to any country, to any religion, to any political party or partial system; he is concerned with the total understanding of mankind.”  Jiddu Krishnamurti

 

edit to add name to the quote

 

 

This I think is very good.it doesn't detract from the fact that yes we are programmed to group things like, poisonous and edible. 

Maybe it's a mixture of grouping and this. so why don't we change?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Kismit said:

Crimson, I like this and I get your point but it still groups, the government.  when infact, the government is made up of individuals with different ideals and goals.

When power and money are involved individuality becomes secondary,recorded history has proven this time and again and will continue to do so...

I think you may be looking for deeper answers than that,sorry i got none...

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Kismit said:

This I think is very good.it doesn't detract from the fact that yes we are programmed to group things like, poisonous and edible. 

Maybe it's a mixture of grouping and this. so why don't we change?

We do. It's just so incremental that people don't notice.

People are behind same sex marriage and medical marijuana that they never thought they would twenty years ago.

We make our leaps through baby steps.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I remember an old saying that my grandfather use to express....."Never discuss politics or religion".

As a child I had no idea what he meant by that. But of course, since I have gotten to be a little older (and hopefully wiser) :innocent:....

I now realise he was right.

I mean one only has to look at the world and see the many divisions, we as a species, have created because of our different beliefs in politics and religion...such as the conflict and wars that we see everyday...and has also been going on for centuries.

Basically - I think humans are not so much different from animals...as having a certain 'pack mentality' that may be etched in our evolution in order to survive - feel safe - and belong socially.

I think we like those who agree more with our views... rather than those who oppose us. Hence grouping and putting them in a different category to ourselves. I think we all do it to some extent or another..and it's not always about politics or religion.

Hopefully one day...we may evolve enough to become more tolerant, understanding and respectful of those with differing views - and / or who look different from ourselves....and not go against the grain so much with others.

But until that day comes - I'm certainly not going to hold my breath....because fundamentally...humans are a warring species.

Edited by Astra.
added a little bit..
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Astra. said:

I remember an old saying that my grandfather use to express....."Never discuss politics or religion".

As a child I had no idea what he meant by that. But of course, since I have gotten to be a little older (and hopefully wiser) :innocent:....

I now realise he was right.

I mean one only has to look at the world and see the many divisions, we as a species, have created because of our different beliefs in politics and religion...such as the conflict and wars that we see everyday...and has also been going on for centuries.

Basically - I think humans are not so much different from animals...as having a certain 'pack mentality' that may be etched in our evolution in order to survive - feel safe - and belong socially.

I think we like those who agree more with our views... rather than those who oppose us. Hence grouping and putting them in a different category to ourselves. I think we all do it to some extent or another..and it's not always about politics or religion.

Hopefully one day...we may evolve enough to become more tolerant, understanding and respectful of those with differing views - and not go against the grain so much with others.

But until that day comes - I'm certainly not going to hold my breath....because fundamentally...humans are a warring species.

Your grandfather's quote, in full was probably; "Never discuss politics or religion in polite company".

Polite company is boring.

I'd rather engage in healthy debate. That's why I come to these forums.

I really do want to figure out how that screwed up individual thinks the way they do, or I do, conversely.

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Quote

It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.”
Terry Pratchett, Jingo

 

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Astra. said:

...Hopefully one day...we may evolve enough to become more tolerant, understanding and respectful of those with differing views - and not go against the grain so much with others.

But until that day comes - I'm certainly not going to hold my breath....because fundamentally...humans are a warring species.

Humans differ in their viewpoints but we hold far more in common.

I.E.: the 'Golden Rule', it and in of itself is not religious. It's a "humanist" viewpoint.

If a Hindu says, "This is the sum of duty; do naught onto others what you would not have them do unto you." -  Mahabharata 5,1517

We get it. :)

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Likely Guy said:

Your grandfather's quote, in full was probably; "Never discuss politics or religion in polite company".

Polite company is boring.

I'd rather engage in healthy debate. That's why I come to these forums.

I really do want to figure out how that screwed up individual thinks the way they do, or I do, conversely.

Oh ok LG....thanks for elaborating on my grandfathers quote....and of course there is nothing like a good debate or a juicy discussion. How boring would it be if we all agreed on things ?

My post was meant to be in the 'genre' of what Kismit's thread was about...concerning why do we (humans) generalise and group each other and why the possible mentality behind it. So I gave an opinion is all...all cool....you don't have to agree with it.... :unsure2:

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Astra. said:

Oh ok LG....thanks for elaborating on my grandfathers quote....and of course there is nothing like a good debate or a juicy discussion. How boring would it be if we all agreed on things ?

My post was meant to be in the 'genre' of what Kismit's thread was about...concerning why do we (humans) generalise and group each other and why the possible mentality behind it. So I gave an opinion is all...all cool....you don't have to agree with it.... :unsure2:

Astra, I agree with you When a topic can change four times in a day, at the end of the day we have to ask each other.

I meant nothing by it.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

Humans differ in their viewpoints but we hold far more in common.

I.E.: the 'Golden Rule', it and in of itself is not religious. It's a "humanist" viewpoint.

If a Hindu says, "This is the sum of duty; do naught onto others what you would not have them do unto you." -  Mahabharata 5,1517

We get it. :)

Good heavens - we could spin off old, wise and wonderful quotes until the cows come home. I've got a ton of them if you like :)

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, in a thread titled "Us vs. them",

No one of you is a believer until he desires for his brother that which he desires for himself.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Kismit said:

It's been a long time since I last posed this question. some of you might find it odd  to think of me as an old times at UM,  But during my long and extensive time here, I have witnessed many occasions when posters have generalized a person and placed them into certain groups. Not once did any good ever come from it. But still we continue to do it.

A clear example of this is posters currently placing other posters in either the leftist liberal gang or the extremist right wingers. No individual should be judged by a mass and placed in an assumed group with an assumed mentality, but still we do it.

Does anyone have a theory on why we continue as a species to create Us v's Them mentalities? My concerns is that we do it because attacking an impersonal object, in this case a group, is far easier than assessing an actual person individually ? 

Theories?

The Pratchett quote I posted above is intended in humour, but retains the truth of the matter.

The reason we categorise people is so that we can separate ourselves from them, and convince ourselves that "our side" is not like that. We see it on these boards all the time. "Typical leftist behaviour" is the single most popular phrase round here. If you were to frequent message boards that were predominantly liberal (as this one is conservative) you'd see the same labelling - as well as the bullying and ridiculing of dissenting views. Ironically whilst often lamenting the very same behaviours they are exhibiting.

In short, we do it because we can't face and acknowledge our own hypocrisies.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Arbenol said:

 

The reason we categorise people is so that we can separate ourselves from them, and convince ourselves that "our side" is not like that. We see it on these boards all the time.

We also see it everywhere all of the time. Human nature is a strange and complex beast Arbenol.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If we can take the time to talk (really talk), we can find where we can agree.

"What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellowman. This is the entire Law; all the rest is commentary."

Edited by Likely Guy
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Astra. said:

 

I think we like those who agree more with our views....

We "like" the like minded,  we are drawn to our own kind, we think them "kind" people ! It's pretty narrow, and non-inclusive when you look at it. It is the axis about which this world turns, though. Into the beyond, I suspect not.........

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

If we can take the time to talk (really talk), we can find where we can agree.

"What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellowman. This is the entire Law; all the rest is commentary."

You're on a roll :D

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I refuse to believe that there is a "us vs, them" only a "me to someone I have yet to have been introduced to".

Edited by Likely Guy
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Kismit said:

It's been a long time since I last posed this question. some of you might find it odd  to think of me as an old times at UM,  But during my long and extensive time here, I have witnessed many occasions when posters have generalized a person and placed them into certain groups. Not once did any good ever come from it. But still we continue to do it.

A clear example of this is posters currently placing other posters in either the leftist liberal gang or the extremist right wingers. No individual should be judged by a mass and placed in an assumed group with an assumed mentality, but still we do it.

Does anyone have a theory on why we continue as a species to create Us v's Them mentalities? My concerns is that we do it because attacking an impersonal object, in this case a group, is far easier than assessing an actual person individually ? 

Theories?

I think political beliefs seem to be very similar to religious belief in many (in many people it's probably often a substitute). Just like hardline religious beliefs very much promote an "us/them" mentality, that us (the Believers) are right, and everyone else is either nonbelievers or heretics, it's exactly the same with political beliefs. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Kismit said:

Crimson, I like this and I get your point but it still groups, the government.  when infact, the government is made up of individuals with different ideals and goals.

But they put their different ideals and goals aside when they become part of the Party, or even more so when they become part of the Establishment, the machine of government, they completely become part of it if they think that it can serve their ambitions. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.