So rape is adultery in the Middle-East ?

[alibongo]

In the Middle East, it appears rape is a criminal act, but conversely, the victim is punished and the perpetrators are exonerated?:http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/dubai-woman-arrested-gang-rape-uae-sex-crime-local-laws-know-how-common-it-is-a7422336.html

Edited November 19, 2016 by Lilly

[Dark_Grey]

Because if you didn't rape them, women would go crazy and tempt men with their overt sexuality. Of course, adultery is a sin so she will be stoned to death for her transgressions.

 

...can you believe this is still happening in 2016?! Sorry, forgot the hashtag: #misinterpretingmohammed

 

[danielost]

and yet they will hold america up as having a problem because we can't stop women from getting raped.

[Opus Magnus]

I think the point is, that it's a foreigner they imprisoned for it.  It's people who aren't middle eastern that they were imprisoning.  The right thing for them to do would be to deport them back to their home country.  Other than that, because their imprisoning a visitor to their country for such a thing, is a huge offense.

 

I don't think it would be the same if it was a native to their country they imprisoned, because after that sort of ordeal, it would probably be to your own benefit to be put away from people.  But it's just dangerous and wrong to put a foreigner into their prisons for such a thing.

[danielost]

oh well in that case it isn't rape unless there are 4 witnesses.

[+and-then]

42 minutes ago, Opus Magnus said:

I think the point is, that it's a foreigner they imprisoned for it.  It's people who aren't middle eastern that they were imprisoning.  The right thing for them to do would be to deport them back to their home country.  Other than that, because their imprisoning a visitor to their country for such a thing, is a huge offense.

 

I don't think it would be the same if it was a native to their country they imprisoned, because after that sort of ordeal, it would probably be to your own benefit to be put away from people.  But it's just dangerous and wrong to put a foreigner into their prisons for such a thing.

 

Hey!!  NOBODY abuses their women, but THEM! 

Seriously, though, the European politicians that are whoring themselves after this voter base should be horse whipped and deported themselves.  They can readily see what is happening in their countries yet they blunder on and ignore their own native constituencies.  If they try that here they won't last long.

[Ashotep]

These people are so disgusting.  How do they remain so backwards in today's world. 

[Arbenol]

2 hours ago, Opus Magnus said:

I think the point is, that it's a foreigner they imprisoned for it.  It's people who aren't middle eastern that they were imprisoning.  The right thing for them to do would be to deport them back to their home country.  Other than that, because their imprisoning a visitor to their country for such a thing, is a huge offense.

 

I don't think it would be the same if it was a native to their country they imprisoned, because after that sort of ordeal, it would probably be to your own benefit to be put away from people.  But it's just dangerous and wrong to put a foreigner into their prisons for such a thing.

WTF? 

Locking someone up for being raped would be to their benefit?

[Arbenol]

15 minutes ago, Ashotep said:

These people are so disgusting.  How do they remain so backwards in today's world. 

Because they're in their world, not ours. If we were serious about our outrage we'd do something substantial about it. Not doing business there would be start. Stop using Emirates and Etihad. Bands could refuse to perform there, and sportspersons decline invitations to compete.

Instead everyone just follows the money.

[Habitat]

57 minutes ago, Ashotep said:

These people are so disgusting.  How do they remain so backwards in today's world. 

There are plenty of "backward" attitudes prevalent in western society, just about every time I turn on the TV news, some loon has murdered his former wife or partner, who had the temerity to leave, or take up with another. Many more live hostage to such attitudes, too scared to break free. You can't get any more backward than that !

[Thorvir]

3 hours ago, alibongo said:

In the Middle East, it appears rape is a criminal act, but conversely, the victim is punished and the perpetrators are exonerated?:http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/dubai-woman-arrested-gang-rape-uae-sex-crime-local-laws-know-how-common-it-is-a7422336.html

Welcome to islam 101

[Kismit]

Its not just Islam. Honour killings in India are just as deplorable. There are also nation's were woman are buried up to their necks, and stoned to death for allowing themselves to be raped.  

Women on the world stage can be treated deplorably and I comend any person here who is disgusted by that.

Edited November 18, 2016 by Kismit

[Likely Guy]

1 hour ago, Kismit said:

Its not just Islam. Honour killings in India are just as deplorable. There are also nation's were woman are buried up to their necks, and stoned to death for allowing themselves to be raped.  

Women on the world stage can be treated deplorably and I comend any person here who is disgusted by that.

 

As well as any person that works to change it. The largest modern "wrong" in democracy is the lack of  female  political representation since they represent more than half.

Call me a 'pansy', call me a 'wuss', or a 'snowflake'.

[Habitat]

3 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

 

As well as any person that works to change it. The largest modern "wrong" in democracy is the lack of  female  political representation since they represent more than half.

Call me a 'pansy', call me a 'wuss', or a 'snowflake'.

Some parliaments are almost over-represented with women these days, and many are quite unimpressive. You can't vote for/against people on the basis of gender, without earning the label of "mad", imo. And I include so-called "affirnative action", where female candidates get pre-selected because of gender. Crazy stuff, and is causing some dud representation.

[Likely Guy]

7 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Some parliaments are almost over-represented with women these days, and many are quite unimpressive. You can't vote for/against people on the basis of gender, without earning the label of "mad", imo. And I include so-called "affirnative action", where female candidates get pre-selected because of gender. Crazy stuff, and is causing some dud representation.

Rwanda comes to mind.

[Kismit]

55 minutes ago, Habitat said:

Some parliaments are almost over-represented with women these days, and many are quite unimpressive. You can't vote for/against people on the basis of gender, without earning the label of "mad", imo. And I include so-called "affirnative action", where female candidates get pre-selected because of gender. Crazy stuff, and is causing some dud representation.

In my experience its swings and round abouts. People under compensate then over compensate. We haven't found intelligent middle ground yet, but we at least know it is still possible. And we are learning whats right. Have faith the world is improving ever so slowly.

[Lilly]

What I find mind boggling is that some of the so called 'feminists' turn around and support the 'cultural rights' of the very groups who advocate this type of treatment for women. Irrespective of ones religion or culture such treatment of women ( rape, genital mutilation, honor killing, slavery) absolutely has to be denounced and never tolerated. There is no such thing as 'moral relativism' in this regard and no one (individual, group, country) should ever back peddle on this. If such actions were being based upon a person's race instead of gender how quickly would people rise up in absolute fury. Yet, such actions towards woman are simply called 'religious practices' or 'cultural differences'. What disgusting hypocrisy.

Edited November 18, 2016 by Lilly
typo

[alibongo]

Most crimes, in English law, have 2 elements: the mens rea (guilty mind, intent) and the actus reus (actual act),both of which have to be present or there is no crime.

Some crimes, however, are known as "absolute" crimes- no intent need be proved. A lot of motoring offences fall into this category- if you are caught doing 35mph in a 30 mph area, you are guilty of speeding, whether or not you knew there were speed restrictions, your speedo was faulty, or you didn't intend to break the law ( otherwise we would have the crazy situation where speed limits only applied to those people who knew about them and had working speedos!).

If, as seems likely, the Saudis regard adultery as an absolute  offence, then a married woman who is raped by two single men will have committed adultery (sex outside marriage), while they have not.

So she will get the 100 lashes and stoning, they will not as they have committed a lesser offence.

 

 

 

[Susanc241]

My understanding of the media article about this is that the woman was British and the two men were British (men from Birmingham)!  All three have had their passports confiscated (as at the time of the article).  I don't see where Islam comes into this in relation to the victim and perpetrators.  Only the laws of Dubai seem to have been offended.  Their mentality seems to go along the lines that if a woman is raped she allowed it, therefore is culpable in the 'crime'.  The victims mistake was reporting it to the Dubai police.  In this circumstance she would have been better off just coming back to the UK and reporting it here.  Whether she was a tourist or working there I do not know.  Certainly all three should have been returned to the U.K. IMO, and not been judged or punished by Dubai rules and standards as no Dubai resident was involved.

[Thorvir]

10 hours ago, Kismit said:

Its not just Islam. Honour killings in India are just as deplorable.

Welcome to India 101.

And just in case anyone else tries it....Welcome to Third World Crap Holes 101.

BTW, it IS about islam in this thread, not India.

Edited November 18, 2016 by Thorvir Hrothgaard

[Opus Magnus]

Yeah, it's their laws based on their religious rules.  Islam though, is just a branch off of Judaism and Christianity.  There's a big misunderstanding, but it's really no more than some added help to get a simpler message of those two religions to other people.  

 

What I wonder though, is why would single women, or even a couple, or anyone, go to one of these countries?  It's common knowledge these are dangerous countries to anyone who is not arab.

[AdealJustice]

islam and arabia.

[Ashotep]

14 hours ago, Habitat said:

There are plenty of "backward" attitudes prevalent in western society, just about every time I turn on the TV news, some loon has murdered his former wife or partner, who had the temerity to leave, or take up with another. Many more live hostage to such attitudes, too scared to break free. You can't get any more backward than that !

True but we are talking about government backed insanity here.  I bet the loon was arrested for his crimes instead of blaming them on the woman.

Edited November 18, 2016 by Ashotep

[aquatus1]

11 hours ago, Habitat said:

Some parliaments are almost over-represented with women these days, and many are quite unimpressive.

I would be willing to bet the vast majority of parliaments are definitely over-represented with men, and are similarly unimpressive.

In a society that makes such a strong divide between male and female gender roles, it should only make sense to have members of both parties passing judgement on laws.  In cases where only one party is affected, why would one even consider including the unaffected party in the decision process?

4 hours ago, Lilly said:

What I find mind boggling is that some of the so called 'feminists' turn around and support the 'cultural rights' of the very groups who advocate this type of treatment for women. Irrespective of ones religion or culture such treatment of women ( rape, genital mutilation, honor killing, slavery) absolutely has to be denounced and never tolerated. There is no such thing as 'moral relativism' in this regard and no one (individual, group, country) should ever back peddle on this. If such actions were being based upon a person's race instead of gender how quickly would people rise up in absolute fury. Yet, such actions towards woman are simply called 'religious practices' or 'cultural differences'. What disgusting hypocrisy.

While I don't agree that there is no such thing as "moral relativism" in any regard, I have absolutely no problem with claiming that my particular moral standard in this regard is superior, and anyone who believes women should be treated this way need to be stopped, through physical force if necessary.

[Opus Magnus]

I personally think Dubai should change their immigration laws and how they treat foreignors.  It already said it's one possible outcome in these cases in their law for deportation, I think they should make it deportation in every case because it's offensive.