back to earth Posted December 27, 2016 #51 Share Posted December 27, 2016 1 hour ago, XenoFish said: There is a lot in my head that I have trouble verbally expressing the right way. I could come up with a ton of ideas on metaphysical things, but I'd have nothing to really back them. Ohhhh ... dont let that stop you ! I know one or two here that just plow on regardless in that respect 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted December 27, 2016 #52 Share Posted December 27, 2016 1 minute ago, back to earth said: Ohhhh ... dont let that stop you ! I know one or two here that just plow on regardless in that respect Well I like to have something well thought out. Let's take this topic for instance. If someone was to actually be possessed, the question is how? How would that actually work? Why does a exorcism get ride of this possession? If it's not a psychological issues then what is it really? If is the word. If they are possessed then what is doing the possession? From what I can tell the only that possesses someone besides a possible mental illness is an idea. They believe on an unconscious level that they are possessed. So the placebo effect kicks in with some kind of banishing ritual. Let's also take out of body projection. If people can actually vacate their bodies when they sleep and wander around. This would explain ghost sightings. But with nothing to validate such OBE's we're left to speculate. Even telekinesis could potential be an expression of the same projection, yet where is the factual evidence for such things? I mean if such a thing was legit, how useful would that be. Those crippled would 'roam' freely. Prisoners couldn't 'stay' in jail. They'd just ghost around everywhere. Why spend a ton of money on space travel when we could just ghost to other worlds. Light years away. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted December 27, 2016 #53 Share Posted December 27, 2016 33 minutes ago, XenoFish said: Well I like to have something well thought out. Let's take this topic for instance. Okey dokey. 33 minutes ago, XenoFish said: If someone was to actually be possessed, the question is how? There are various reasons and causes, I will focus on what I think are 'classic cases' ..... that is, lets forget silly internet claims and all that, let's look at someone that has been admitted to an institution considered a really bad case and claims they are possessed and / or shows the 'classic symptoms'. - no doubt you will realise, any citing I am asked to give will come from the Empirical evidence Dr Wilson van Dusen discovered i his treatment of the serious mentally ill that claimed possession . Tere are 'clinical reasons' but ... In my 'personna model' we consist of a variety of 'drivers' or forces, mostly we just assume it is 'us' or 'me' running the show , often without any real consideration of what 'us' or 'me' might even mean , or how it works . Regardless, it does, to an extent somehow. Take even this simple conundrum ; addiction . 'Part of us' may want to stop, know full well the implications, and maybe not even want to do it or like it anymore . Where lies the 'me' or the 'I 'in this ? And the games the addict will play to maintain the addiction and supply ! Do they really think they are fooling us ? Do they really think they are fooling 'themselves' ? They seem to behave as if that is what they are trying to do . So we have a 'split' , if not in self, at least in purpose. Somehow, the 'glue' that holds ourselves together in a concept of 'self' ... or 'unity of self' comes unstuck ; from addiction, trauma ( physical or emotional ), stress, a variety of things . The next step is to give forces 'personification' . 'Aberrant forces' are not identified as part of the major or (supposedly ) 'overruling self ' - or as they say, in Exopsychology ' The Master Controller Circuit ' - 7 , The 'Bio-electric Circuit ' ( but again, it isnt one circuit we operate under, we operate under the multi function and interaction of many circuits and the result we perceive as a unity or self or 'will' ) . The 'aberrant forces' are seen as alien, or invasive, ie, a given or take on a 'personality' of their own. They either need to be bought back into play and regulated or eliminated 33 minutes ago, XenoFish said: How would that actually work? Why does a exorcism get ride of this possession? Well, one way of putting it is that an exorcism can pander to the psychological conundrum .... for the more magical minded it can be a successful evocation, for the religious it can be an exorcism, for the animist, the tribal shamen waving some magic leaves around them . It works, in way , like a placebo . VanDusen's patients were encouraged to envision 'good order hallucinations' - good 'spirits' - good and wholesome aspects of the self - like wise separated and personified - to over rule, over power or dispel the 'bad spirits' . The healing can take place in / on the internal theatre of the 'imagination' ... or , as some might call it , 'the astral' . 33 minutes ago, XenoFish said: If it's not a psychological issues then what is it really? I think it is a 'psychological issue' but one more complex than usually realised. 33 minutes ago, XenoFish said: If is the word. If they are possessed then what is doing the possession? The externalised force of what I described above. IMO , an internal state can alter one's perception of reality , whether it can alter external reality itself is another thing and something I have not witnessed . Eg, a 'possessed person' may have unexplained welts on their own body . Par for the course ... but if they then were able to cause welts on the body of another person who didn't know what was trying to be done , that is totally different , and again something I have not seen nor heard reliable witness of. Thats where 'tricky questions' come in ; whether in evocation or exorcism ; when they get asked the right 'tricky questions' they dont like that one bit, as part of them knows they are getting busted for lying . They will try to bluff you, and many people try this on in normal life. I had an exact encounter like that 2 days ago. What a tweeb. He collected both barrels from me , was trying to BS out of what I caught him doing, but several well aimed questions exposed the whole facade. The guy seemed to be running on auto responses supreme ego and non stop BS that a kid could see through, and he been like it all his life .... virtually a walking pack of 'demons' some how loosely operating as 'a' person , under some massive ego. And this one was not even 'claiming possession ' ! 33 minutes ago, XenoFish said: From what I can tell the only that possesses someone besides a possible mental illness is an idea. I call it a personality split , forces of the Id . It can get really bad and take over and seem like evil is loose in the whole community ! I have learnt about this in an area I specialised on in Anthropology ; cultures in decline and crisis - the end of days . The Ik of Uganda ... < shudder > anyway , the 'collective possession' and demise of a culture is a bit of a broader subject. Both ( individually and collectively ) seem , at times, to have an 'inbuilt' self destruct circuit that can turned on in certain conditions . Its penultimate stage is 'self harm' , the last is mutilation, suicide , death. This 'function' can be seen 'evil loose in the community' ( but like the individual, it stems from some 'disruption' ) or it can bee seen as a 'force of cultural evolution' that cleans things up, when cultures and people are in crisis and cant recover, sick, and a new start is needed ... uch like the function of a crocodile in nature - is a crocodile 'evil' ? 33 minutes ago, XenoFish said: They believe on an unconscious level that they are possessed. So the placebo effect kicks in with some kind of banishing ritual. Yes, that can work. 33 minutes ago, XenoFish said: Let's also take out of body projection. If people can actually vacate their bodies when they sleep and wander around. This would explain ghost sightings. But with nothing to validate such OBE's we're left to speculate. Even telekinesis could potential be an expression of the same projection, yet where is the factual evidence for such things? I haven't seen them either . 33 minutes ago, XenoFish said: I mean if such a thing was legit, how useful would that be. Those crippled would 'roam' freely. Prisoners couldn't 'stay' in jail. They'd just ghost around everywhere. Why spend a ton of money on space travel when we could just ghost to other worlds. Light years away. Well, some cultures say and do exactly that ! You know the old Indian and the Moon landing story ? Mohammad flew to the Moon ! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted December 27, 2016 #54 Share Posted December 27, 2016 (edited) PS . I am not postulating an 'outside agent ' for 'forces of evolution' either , perhaps the 'medium of transference ' is in the genetic code ? I cant think of another , even though this seems a stretch - but there does seem to be a lot of the code we dont know the purpose of ? Edited December 27, 2016 by back to earth 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitat Posted December 27, 2016 #55 Share Posted December 27, 2016 3 hours ago, back to earth said: Ohhhh ... dont let that stop you ! I know one or two here that just plow on regardless in that respect You'd be one ! And please, it is a "plough" in Australia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saru Posted December 27, 2016 #56 Share Posted December 27, 2016 Given that the OP does not appear to be participating further there's little point keeping this thread going. Closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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