back to earth Posted December 5, 2016 #51 Share Posted December 5, 2016 (edited) PS. There is another book that also helps, it , sort of, fills in the gaps - over the last few hundred years, and looks at the 'old mind ' ( the way we used to think) , surviving in a new world and confronted with new technologies and the bombardment of information we receive. It tracks the development of new ideas and discoveries and the effect that has had on general consciousness and ....... ( stuck for a word ) ... had to look it up ; ' zeitgeist' how it effects our zeitgeist. Eg, space exploration, what we find , or dont find , and looking at movements in art , literature, etc around the same time. It tracks major developments and discoveries and compares them to changes in the zeitgeist. But I cant for the life of me remember the title or author. Its a very good book and reveals a lot about the dynamics we are all effected by. Maybe someone here knows of it ? I think it dates from around the 70s or 80s ? Edited December 5, 2016 by back to earth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylemurph Posted December 6, 2016 #52 Share Posted December 6, 2016 10 hours ago, steve wright said: on page 306 of Yates - she mentions Ars Notoria - the "lazy magic of Ars Notoria" and the fact that Bruno had done wheels upon wheels of intricate details - etc. .. whoa ... so from ancient egypt - maybe Thoth - whatever - to Solomon - to the monastary he went to - Bruno had been given some real detailed info from somewhere - like real detailed info of everything - almost like the detail supposedly given to Solomon - and then Bruno had gone around europe - england, france, germany and given his info out - and done his wheels upon wheels of total detail or arcane and maybe secret knowledge - sun - moon - stars - rocks- plants - trees - all living and higher being stuff and the cosmos ... then was inticed back to Italy and taken to the Inquisition and burned... damn - but it would have been handed down to him at the monastary 13 to 17 years old then he left...it is an incredible story .... so he had this knowledge and incorporated it into his wheels of info and called it memory... something like that - way over my head but am trying.. whoa No. That's just not right. The Ars Notoria that she's speaking of is the Art of Memory, the subject of another of her works, where she does a thorough job of discussing its history as a first-century CE rhetorical tool. No Egypt. No Solomon. No historical conspiracies lasting for centuries or millennia. --Jaylemurph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted December 6, 2016 #53 Share Posted December 6, 2016 Hmmmmmm ........ methinks the art of 'annotorious mnemotechnics' is being somewhat confused with the 'notorious' art of some 'Solomon' ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve wright Posted December 7, 2016 Author #54 Share Posted December 7, 2016 On 12/6/2016 at 2:52 AM, back to earth said: Okay, thanks for the info and now it clearer what sort of thing you are seeking. May I suggest a fairly brief (although dated) piece that may put all of this in context ( between then and now, between 'magic' and science, how people thought then and now) . Personally I think it is invaluable info for the type of reading you have embarked on and what you are seeking. Dont be put off by the title, just read Ch 1 , its brief ( of course reading ALL of the book is better, but you have started reading other things and this Ch 1 will put a LOT of it in a sensible context) . Its free, easy to access and the site/book easy to navigate through (just click on the page to turn it) .. C1 . The Historical Importance of a Theory of Impetus. https://archive.org/details/originsofmoderns007291mbp back to earth ok thanks much - will have a read on this ! great stuff appreciate it - yes nice easy download to pdf ! steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve wright Posted December 7, 2016 Author #55 Share Posted December 7, 2016 On 12/6/2016 at 10:38 AM, back to earth said: Hmmmmmm ........ methinks the art of 'annotorious mnemotechnics' is being somewhat confused with the 'notorious' art of some 'Solomon' ? yes ok am ready to get into some serious reading - the Yates bok and Seneca memorizing 2000 names in one go - wow - so yes natural memory or even using images like a building and what's in it to memorize vs Bruno's way up there stuff is a big jump - hey I even took a dale carnigie 12 weeks classand the first class with 30 people and they had everyone get the name and then associate the name with an object and after like 1 hour almost everyone could recite the 30 names of the people in the class bang on the first go... so even Carnigie was doing this stuff - just a side note - but yes bruno and the art notary are two way different deals Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve wright Posted December 7, 2016 Author #56 Share Posted December 7, 2016 On 12/6/2016 at 9:08 AM, jaylemurph said: No. That's just not right. The Ars Notoria that she's speaking of is the Art of Memory, the subject of another of her works, where she does a thorough job of discussing its history as a first-century CE rhetorical tool. No Egypt. No Solomon. No historical conspiracies lasting for centuries or millennia. --Jaylemurph ok got it - cool ok thanks Jaylemurph... here is the pdf i was reading - lots of prayers but also some stuff about saying the strange words at different phases of the moon andall that - which i am no going to do - just thought that Bruno's amazing detailed stuff and he preaching how big everything is and all the deatils he was exponding on the cosmos and all was "old" type stuff and maybe was related to old Solomon and Thoth - but I think Yates says for sure Egyptian stuff in Bruno's lessons etc...anyway - over my head for now - have to read a lot more and get into it ! http://hermetic.com/norton/pdf/Ars_notoria.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted December 7, 2016 #57 Share Posted December 7, 2016 On 12/6/2016 at 3:59 AM, back to earth said: Maybe someone here knows of it ? I think it dates from around the 70s or 80s ? This ? Quote New World/New Mind Paul R. Ehrlich, Author, Paul Ornstein, Author, Robert E. Ornstein, With Doubleday Books $18.95 (302p) ISBN 978-0-385-23940-0 *** Ehrlich, Stanford University biologist and population expert, has teamed with psychologist Ornstein ( The Psychology of Consciousness ) to produce an important and urgent prescription for sanity. They perceive a mismatch between the human nervous system and our complex modern world: unlike early hunter-gatherers who evolved quick reflexes to cope with a limited environment, modern Americans face long-range problems not readily apparent to the five sensesexploding population, proliferation of nuclear warheads, depletion of the ozone layer, a staggering budget deficit, mass slaughter on our highways and by handguns. *** Publisher Weekly link ISHK net PDF link ` 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stereologist Posted December 7, 2016 #58 Share Posted December 7, 2016 There is also the dubious book Future Shock by Tofler. It was another of those baloney stories that claimed technology was changing so fast people could not keep up. That nonsense was before cell phones, tablets, 3-d movies, video games, the internet, etc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted December 7, 2016 #59 Share Posted December 7, 2016 6 hours ago, steve wright said: yes ok am ready to get into some serious reading - the Yates bok and Seneca memorizing 2000 names in one go - wow - so yes natural memory or even using images like a building Or a 'landscape', ... there is also this , but some seemed to think it was hard to follow - the book referred t in this link describes a process using a suburban landscape; 6 hours ago, steve wright said: and what's in it to memorize vs Bruno's way up there stuff is a big jump - hey I even took a dale carnigie 12 weeks classand the first class with 30 people and they had everyone get the name and then associate the name with an object and after like 1 hour almost everyone could recite the 30 names of the people in the class bang on the first go... so even Carnigie was doing this stuff - just a side note - but yes bruno and the art notary are two way different deals In case my post 53 was a little cryptic re confusion over Ars Notoria Yates , Solomon , etc . I was referring to this ; Ars Notoria - Art of memory (In refrence to Yates's Book ) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art_of_memory Ars Notoria - The Notary Art of Solomon ( Translated from Latin into English By Robert Turner, 1657 ) ; http://hermetic.com/norton/pdf/Ars_notoria.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted December 7, 2016 #60 Share Posted December 7, 2016 5 hours ago, third_eye said: This ? Publisher Weekly link ISHK net PDF link ` That has to be it .... thanks ! I may even read it again ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted December 7, 2016 #61 Share Posted December 7, 2016 2 hours ago, stereologist said: There is also the dubious book Future Shock by Tofler. It was another of those baloney stories that claimed technology was changing so fast people could not keep up. That nonsense was before cell phones, tablets, 3-d movies, video games, the internet, etc. No ..... I have had 'future shock' since the 90s started . I think that's what it is ? What are the symptoms. Forget cell phones and the internet, I will tell you what really does my head in ..... in the modern world .... friggin Hipsters ! It is the future and I am in shock (or at least feeling a little sick ) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaylemurph Posted December 7, 2016 #62 Share Posted December 7, 2016 8 hours ago, steve wright said: ok got it - cool ok thanks Jaylemurph... here is the pdf i was reading - lots of prayers but also some stuff about saying the strange words at different phases of the moon andall that - which i am no going to do - just thought that Bruno's amazing detailed stuff and he preaching how big everything is and all the deatils he was exponding on the cosmos and all was "old" type stuff and maybe was related to old Solomon and Thoth - but I think Yates says for sure Egyptian stuff in Bruno's lessons etc...anyway - over my head for now - have to read a lot more and get into it ! http://hermetic.com/norton/pdf/Ars_notoria.pdf ...considering Champollion didn't translate Egyptian hieroglyphics until the 19th Century, we can all be extremely skeptical about just how "Egyptian" anything the Neoplatonists cited actually was. --Jaylemurph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted December 7, 2016 #63 Share Posted December 7, 2016 2 hours ago, back to earth said: That has to be it .... thanks ! I may even read it again ! No worries ... I've read it over many a times ... still well worth a read now and again ... ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve wright Posted December 9, 2016 Author #64 Share Posted December 9, 2016 On 12/8/2016 at 5:09 AM, third_eye said: No worries ... I've read it over many a times ... still well worth a read now and again ... ~ just downloaded it and will read - yes we are in for a train wreck with all the new fangled gadets and high tech and instant communications unless we get our act together... need to control the high tech with the spiritual body so you don't get run over with the high tech physical world... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted December 9, 2016 #65 Share Posted December 9, 2016 16 minutes ago, steve wright said: just downloaded it and will read - yes we are in for a train wreck with all the new fangled gadets and high tech and instant communications unless we get our act together... need to control the high tech with the spiritual body so you don't get run over with the high tech physical world... Keep a square head over the round shoulders none the need to go overboard with the scare and forebode ... just keep up with the aware ... the signs are pretty much the same here and there ... it matters little when one is hunting for pheasants or fishing for mackerels ... its just the state of awareness being bent to be suitably useful for the task ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenemet Posted December 9, 2016 #66 Share Posted December 9, 2016 (edited) On 12/7/2016 at 6:41 AM, steve wright said: ok got it - cool ok thanks Jaylemurph... here is the pdf i was reading - lots of prayers but also some stuff about saying the strange words at different phases of the moon andall that - which i am no going to do - just thought that Bruno's amazing detailed stuff and he preaching how big everything is and all the deatils he was exponding on the cosmos and all was "old" type stuff and maybe was related to old Solomon and Thoth - but I think Yates says for sure Egyptian stuff in Bruno's lessons etc...anyway - over my head for now - have to read a lot more and get into it ! http://hermetic.com/norton/pdf/Ars_notoria.pdf In fact, if you start to read the Egyptian magical spells (originals as translated from ostrika and other sources), you will notice that they're nothing at all like Bruno's lessons. The Egyptian "system of magic" was not really grounded in ideas or philosophy but was a practical "medicine" for love spells, cures for illnesses, and destruction of enemies. It relied a lot on sympathetic magic (making images/written charms on paper.) ..and having looked at the PDF, I can say that there's absolutely nothing in there that the ancient Egyptians (or modern ones) would recognize. On the other hand, Europeans of the Enlightenment era would find a lot of recognizable stuff. Edited December 9, 2016 by Kenemet 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docyabut2 Posted December 9, 2016 #67 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Quote Not true, something made up in the earlier centuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted December 10, 2016 #68 Share Posted December 10, 2016 Not sure what Docy's post means ? Perhaps the confusion above that is relating to the terms ' Egyptian stuff' ? Such 'stuff' that does appear in writings or is considered to be behind the writings of people such as Bruno, Ficino, Agrippa, etc is better termed ' Hermetic ' ..... until such thought was eliminated from Christian writings . Now, the 'Hermes' root part of the word does relate to ' Hermes' , and via Thoth, back to ancient Egypt (and the Egyptian systems) BUT , the actual source of Hermetics is better ascribed to ' The Alexandrian Synthesism ' , of a latter time and an eclectic collection . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenemet Posted December 10, 2016 #69 Share Posted December 10, 2016 14 hours ago, back to earth said: Now, the 'Hermes' root part of the word does relate to ' Hermes' , and via Thoth, back to ancient Egypt (and the Egyptian systems) BUT , the actual source of Hermetics is better ascribed to ' The Alexandrian Synthesism ' , of a latter time and an eclectic collection . Yes, to Hellenic Egypt (the time of the Ptolemys) and actually has little to do with the real Thoth. It's their version of Thoth (more Greek than anything else.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve wright Posted December 11, 2016 Author #70 Share Posted December 11, 2016 On 12/9/2016 at 8:47 PM, third_eye said: Keep a square head over the round shoulders none the need to go overboard with the scare and forebode ... just keep up with the aware ... the signs are pretty much the same here and there ... it matters little when one is hunting for pheasants or fishing for mackerels ... its just the state of awareness being bent to be suitably useful for the task ~ nice one third eye - agree 100% "the state of awareness" is the key 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve wright Posted December 11, 2016 Author #71 Share Posted December 11, 2016 On 12/10/2016 at 8:46 AM, back to earth said: Not sure what Docy's post means ? Perhaps the confusion above that is relating to the terms ' Egyptian stuff' ? Such 'stuff' that does appear in writings or is considered to be behind the writings of people such as Bruno, Ficino, Agrippa, etc is better termed ' Hermetic ' ..... until such thought was eliminated from Christian writings . Now, the 'Hermes' root part of the word does relate to ' Hermes' , and via Thoth, back to ancient Egypt (and the Egyptian systems) BUT , the actual source of Hermetics is better ascribed to ' The Alexandrian Synthesism ' , of a latter time and an eclectic collection . am thinking that Bruno's ideas jump way back - not to Egyptian "spells" for love and cures for illness - altho the old medicine may be good and based on real plants and roots - but Bruno's ideas are all cosmos and the smallest and the biggest all being connected - and that big drawing of his with all the related imagery for stars - earth - comos - and all being co9nnected - must have come from an older thought pattern handed down - which he breought to light in the 1580's. So the question is - where did he get it from? sounds like it is older than greek or egyptian then and that gets me thinking into Thoth Time - but from someone that had a lot more "esoteric" or all inclusive knowledge - and not just physical world knowledge but eternal spiritual and astral being type knowledge that has been hidden - like third eye's quote from Mahatma "God has no religion" and of course the rewritting of the bible in 325 AD and putting all the good stuff in there... what is the deal - there were like 12 people/beings before Jesus that all had the same histories and stories - virgin birth, healing the sick and dead and being crucified and ressurecting after death...and I believe in JC... but there is some old history before JC that tells the same stories ...Zeitgeist - yah I haven't done all the scholarly research so I could be totally wrong so call me a dummy if necessary 5 5 5 steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted December 11, 2016 #72 Share Posted December 11, 2016 (edited) 5 hours ago, steve wright said: am thinking that Bruno's ideas jump way back - not to Egyptian "spells" for love and cures for illness - altho the old medicine may be good and based on real plants and roots - but Bruno's ideas are all cosmos and the smallest and the biggest all being connected - and that big drawing of his with all the related imagery for stars - earth - comos - and all being co9nnected 'Big drawing of his' ? One assumes it is in a book published by him , or do you mean actually drawn by him and which picture do you mean ? In any case, one assumes it is one of the illustrations about the heavenly spheres ? Which Bruno actually argued against . OR, are talking about his idea of an 'Aethyr' , instead of the sphere model ? Hard to tell what you mean when you use terms like 'big drawing if his' . In any case , I thought you said you did or were going to read the Ch 1 from origins of Modern Science? If you did , it would have explained all this . Which is why I recommended it in the the first place and said it would clear up a lot of misunderstandings you might run into later , otherwise. Quote - must have come from an older thought pattern handed down - which he breought to light in the 1580's. Perhaps, with the sphere model. But if you are saying older than the Ancient Egyptian ..... nope ! Quote So the question is - where did he get it from? sounds like it is older than greek or egyptian then and that gets me thinking into Thoth Time - Celestial Spheres model was developed by Plato and others along the way ; Ptolemy, Copernicus etc . If it was older than Greek, it goes back to pre history - but I know of no other source earlier than Plato . Sorry , no 'Thoth time ' here . If you mean Bruno's idea that isnt celestial spheres , no that doesnt go back to 'Thoth time' either . In any case 'Toth time' is NOT later than ancient Egypt . If you want to go back to Egypt pre Plato .... thats ' Djehuti Time ' . Quote but from someone that had a lot more "esoteric" or all inclusive knowledge - and not just physical world knowledge but eternal spiritual and astral being type knowledge that has been hidden You didnt read that Ch 1 did you ? The 'physical world knowledge' back then WAS esoteric, spiritual and 'metaphysical'. I have no idea what 'astral being type knowledge' is . Is that something you made up ? Quote - like third eye's quote from Mahatma "God has no religion" and of course the rewritting of the bible in 325 AD and putting all the good stuff in there The re-writing of the Bible is like 'astral being type knowledge ? What ? Quote ... what is the deal - there were like 12 people/beings before Jesus that all had the same histories and stories - virgin birth, healing the sick and dead and being crucified and ressurecting after death...and I believe in JC... but there is some old history before JC that tells the same stories ...Zeitgeist - yah I haven't done all the scholarly research so I could be totally wrong so call me a dummy if necessary 5 5 5 steve The 12 Pre-Apostles ? You might find , on one hand , some of those stories stretch and fudge things a bit , and on the other hand, some mythological characters are sometimes a compendium of accreted details from many other sources . Edited December 11, 2016 by back to earth 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve wright Posted December 14, 2016 Author #73 Share Posted December 14, 2016 On 12/12/2016 at 2:36 AM, back to earth said: 'Big drawing of his' ? One assumes it is in a book published by him , or do you mean actually drawn by him and which picture do you mean ? In any case, one assumes it is one of the illustrations about the heavenly spheres ? Which Bruno actually argued against . OR, are talking about his idea of an 'Aethyr' , instead of the sphere model ? Hard to tell what you mean when you use terms like 'big drawing if his' . In any case , I thought you said you did or were going to read the Ch 1 from origins of Modern Science? If you did , it would have explained all this . Which is why I recommended it in the the first place and said it would clear up a lot of misunderstandings you might run into later , otherwise. Perhaps, with the sphere model. But if you are saying older than the Ancient Egyptian ..... nope ! Celestial Spheres model was developed by Plato and others along the way ; Ptolemy, Copernicus etc . If it was older than Greek, it goes back to pre history - but I know of no other source earlier than Plato . Sorry , no 'Thoth time ' here . If you mean Bruno's idea that isnt celestial spheres , no that doesnt go back to 'Thoth time' either . In any case 'Toth time' is NOT later than ancient Egypt . If you want to go back to Egypt pre Plato .... thats ' Djehuti Time ' . You didnt read that Ch 1 did you ? The 'physical world knowledge' back then WAS esoteric, spiritual and 'metaphysical'. I have no idea what 'astral being type knowledge' is . Is that something you made up ? The re-writing of the Bible is like 'astral being type knowledge ? What ? The 12 Pre-Apostles ? You might find , on one hand , some of those stories stretch and fudge things a bit , and on the other hand, some mythological characters are sometimes a compendium of accreted details from many other sources . back to earth - ok sorry - will read chapter 1 in orig of mod science - was looking at Bruno's secrets of shadows drawing in Yates pdf pg 208 of pdf - all the circles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stereologist Posted December 15, 2016 #74 Share Posted December 15, 2016 People have created both texts to support their beliefs and texts to cast doubt on other beliefs. and texts to create a new belief. The 2012 craze was full of the latter. A guy named Calleman, the Prophet of Nonsense, made a number of demonstrably wrong claims. Nothing he claimed ever happened. But, that did not stop him from writing a book about how every one of his predictions came true. These two posts by Kenemet give us clear incite into what is in the these texts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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