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Time isnt real, say Physicists


seeder

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31 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

LOL, I guess someone has to bring Astronauts presents at Christmas!! LOL.

[...]

Well, this year's Santa will be Japanese KOUNOTORI 6.

Though, if we'll go further in speculating, real Santa might be banging ISS hatch on Christmas eve...

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1 hour ago, bmk1245 said:

Well, this year's Santa will be Japanese KOUNOTORI 6.

Though, if we'll go further in speculating, real Santa might be banging ISS hatch on Christmas eve...

Thats all right, aren't flying Reindeer - Anti Gravity Machines? Like Toast and Cats?

hpKvWhn1RJIZX6E5iszVjcESWUTh9z8A4ALjG2eH

He would not want to go there delivering presents, last time he did, Jesus had to bust him out!!
 

 

Edited by psyche101
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I realised time was a flexible concept when I went to see a lawyer, and the clock on the wall was in 6-minute divisions.

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Having taken a fair amount of physics in my degree pursuits and astrophysics being a hobby of mine. I would like to share a possible hypothesis that I have come up with in regards to space-time. 

First you cannot separate the two. They are the same thing. I am sure most of you on this forum are aware that gravity has a direct influnce on the fabric of space time. This is why we have algorithms on satellites that constantly adjust for the difference at which time moves on the surface as compared to objects orbiting the planet.

We are often taught or perceive the effect of gravity as an object pulling on an object like the earth pulling the apple down from the tree. Instead let's think of gravity as compression of the fabric of spacetime. Think of the fabric of spacetime like a giant ball of rubber that has the following properties. First that in its undistorted state it is both frictionless meaning that any object that we set into motion will continue in a straight line and will maintain its starting velocity unless acted upon by an outside force.  Secondly there is no boundary to this ball, it exists indefintely in all observable directions.  I am getting ahead of myself, so let's setup the basic rules about gravity for those they may not know, before we continue down the rabbit hole.

First, the greater the mass of the object the more spacetime  is displaced/distorted. The effect of the this distortion is the strongest at the surface of the displacing object. This compression/distortion effect weakens significantly the further you get from the surface (which is why space travel is very complex it is very easy to miss the rather small window of orbit capture). 

Second  the denser an object is in relation to its mass the more dramatic the effect will be. (think black hole or neutron star).

Ok that stuff out of the way  back to the rubber ball of wibbley wobbly spacetime.  Still with me?

So we have our giant rubber ball that is space time. Let's take a bowling ball and stick it somewhere. This will displace/distort rubber inside the ball, but the observabal dimensions of the giant rubber ball is unaffected. Now, we know that near the surface of the bowling ball experiences the greatest amount of distortion.

This can be observed in the following ways. So we take a pool ball and roll it towards the bowling ball with varying amounts of velocity and various approach angles. We should witness some predictable results. for brevity sake let's just say that depending on how close the pool ball passes to the surface of the bowling ball in relationship to its velocity and mass the distortion caused by the bowling ball will have varying degrees of observable changes to velocity and trajectory of the pool balls. This happens not due to the bowling ball pulling the pool balls towards it but rather the pool balls passing through the distorted/compressed rubber. The balls that pass the closest to the bowling ball have will appear to slow down as they enter orbit around the ball but instead only Have to pass through more if the rubber due to the compression/distortion and if they escape on a new trajectory (slingshot) they will have gained velocity once moving away from the bowling ball again due to angular momentum. The pool balls that collide and come to rest against the bowling ball are also not pulled by the bowling ball but rather pushed towards it due to the compression/distortion of the rubber and do not have enough velocity to overcome the compression near the surface of the bowling ball.  

Sorry that was so long but I think it's important to my hypothesis that a proper understanding of gravity is established as many think of it as an attractive force. When it is merely a distortion of the fabric of spacetime. 

Ok on to the spacetime hypothesis. 

So we know that gravity disorts the fabric of spacetime and in extreme cases can create black holes.  The widely touted theory is that nothing can escape a blackhole. I believe that a black hole is not some crazy place where the laws of physics breakdown but rather it distorts space time to such a degree that they create time horizons that we cannot see past. It's not that light cannot escape it is more that we can never see it because light has a finite speed and and it will always be just over the horizon. Time horizons are like an asymptote or limit in calculus, the limit  as x approaches 0 can be visualized as a line  that gets Infinitely close to zero but will never get there. 

With this knowlege in hand let's look at the observable universe and the Big Bang therory.  I say that everything exploded into being from a singularity is nonsense.  It is merely that we can only see so far back in time because of our own time horizon the light and or radiation from an earlier universe cannot ever reach us because we are just over that horizon. Since every galaxy is now believed to contain a super massive black hole it is very possible that even our view of the universe is warped due to the distortion caused by the mass of our galaxy and or dark matter.   

I think that is the main reason we cannot find a grand unifying theory because spacetime is complex beyond our current level of comprehension and our entire understanding of physics is tainted by being trapped by our own the earth is flat theory. We are like the two dimensional beings completely unaware of the 3D space around us. There is a great YouTube video on this  but I cannot remember the name of it. 

If you made it through all that, I would love to hear what you think.  This has been kicking around in my noggin for some time and it is interesting to think about.  

 

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So some guy that dropped too much acid in college and now has a degree, has a theory. 

Edited by NightScreams
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31 minutes ago, TooterFish said:

also, I highly recommend Stephen Hawkins book A Brief History of Time

If time isn't real, Hawking will have to bring out another edition of his book, retitled: An Extremely Brief History of Time

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15 hours ago, TooterFish said:

If you made it through all that, I would love to hear what you think.  This has been kicking around in my noggin for some time and it is interesting to think about. 

Most of that seems like a qualitative description of conventional general relativity (GR).

However:

  1. GR does not treat black holes as some ``crazy place where all laws of physics break down''. GR adequately explains all of the properties of black holes. The only significant issues are (a) whether or not the centre of the black hole is a true infinitesimal point or not (requires a quantum theory of gravity to answer), and (b) the black hole information paradox (which is technically only an assumed paradox, since without a quantum theory of gravity we do not know if any actual laws are broken).
  2. We have good evidence that large-scale space-time is flat and homogeneous, so local curvature from galaxies and black matter are probably not responsible for our inability to see far back into the past.
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I would think that once time travel, or manipulation of some sort is devised, then if you travel to the future, you would be from the people in the futures past. To them you would be out of place, from their past. So I can see how time exist all at once, but we have no means of going anywhere but our present, at the moment.

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This is a theory I agree with.

I've been fond of the idea in these Time threads that all time has already happened, though I think no one has ever agreed with me. What we consider as past, present and future are real locations in space-time, similar to frames in movie film, except in four dimensions. Psychologically we experience a series of unchanging "nows" or frames. The future and past nows exist in their own configurations in locations of space-time, we just cannot access them. They are frozen moments of nows or space-time intervals.

If we could step out of space-time we would see all these nows lined up like a long series of playing cards, each card a static now of the entire universe. If we look closely enough we would see our self in every moment of our life in what we consider our past and what we consider our future. As every card is a now, now looses its special significance, it's just another card in the row.

So, there is no real past or future, these concepts are psychological. Reality is the existence of this totality of space-time.

 

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, StarMountainKid said:

This is a theory I agree with.

I've been fond of the idea in these Time threads that all time has already happened, though I think no one has ever agreed with me. What we consider as past, present and future are real locations in space-time, similar to frames in movie film, except in four dimensions. Psychologically we experience a series of unchanging "nows" or frames. The future and past nows exist in their own configurations in locations of space-time, we just cannot access them. They are frozen moments of nows or space-time intervals.

If we could step out of space-time we would see all these nows lined up like a long series of playing cards, each card a static now of the entire universe. If we look closely enough we would see our self in every moment of our life in what we consider our past and what we consider our future. As every card is a now, now looses its special significance, it's just another card in the row.

So, there is no real past or future, these concepts are psychological. Reality is the existence of this totality of space-time.

 

 

 

 

The idea is appealing.  That can be a trap.  The fact that we like an idea has nothing to do with reality.

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9 MINS VID

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

The idea is appealing.  That can be a trap.  The fact that we like an idea has nothing to do with reality.

Isn't this similar to the theory in the OP's link? Also, there's a similar theory in Brian Green's book, 'The Fabric of the Cosmos'. I've read similar ideas by other physicists here and there.

A lot of these kinds of theories about time, cosmology, string theory and other subjects in physics also may have nothing to do with reality. They're all interesting concepts, we may like some more than others. I think physicists also like some ideas  more than others. A scientist promoting his or hers own theory is really he/she liking it more than some other theory.

I would hope everyone continues to have an open mind about these subjects. I do, I just find some ideas personally more intriguing than others.

Edit:I forgot about seeder's posted video which I have watched before.

 

 

Edited by StarMountainKid
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5 hours ago, StarMountainKid said:

I think physicists also like some ideas  more than others. A scientist promoting his or hers own theory is really he/she liking it more than some other theory.

A true physicist - or any scientist for that matter - will promote the theory that best fits the facts.

Edited by Derek Willis
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On 12/3/2016 at 3:12 PM, seeder said:

OK well I hope they dont expect to be paid for the time it takes them to explain it to us. :lol:   Video in article too.
 

 

So er,,, if everything happens at the SAME time..... how come my two sons were born ten years apart?

because you believe they were born ten years apart.  they are also at this moment adults and fathers with children who are also adults with children.  you have already died however you did.  i have the same problem i believe in time even tho i also know its an illusion.  it was given to us by god so everything wouldn't happen at the same time.  it is merely our perception that tricks us.

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8 minutes ago, danielost said:

because you believe they were born ten years apart.  they are also at this moment adults and fathers with children who are also adults with children.  you have already died however you did.  i have the same problem i believe in time even tho i also know its an illusion.  it was given to us by god ...

I can accept that it may be possible that the future has already happened. But then you spoiled it by mentioning god ... 

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