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New lead in disappearance of Madeleine McCann


Still Waters

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Scotland Yard has reportedly been given more money to investigate an "important" new lead into the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

Metropolitan Police detectives are said to be looking into a tip that a gang of European traffickers snatched the three-year-old from her family's Portuguese holiday apartment in 2007. 

The lead is said to be the "last throw of the dice" in the investigation.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/madeleine-mccann-scotland-yard-investigation-gang-traffickers-a7454796.html

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There were rumours that the young, scruffy girl walking around an Italian city was Madeline. It turned out it wasn't madeline but a Swedish girl.

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I simply can't begin to imagine the anguish and despair that Madeleine's parents or any parent who loses a child, under these type of circumstances must be going through. I hope that this fresh lead into her disappearance finally turns something up.

It reminds me of little 3 year old William Tryrrell who was snatched and disappeared without a trace from his grand-parents front yard in 2014.. in a small town in NSW...and still no fresh leads.

It's always horrible news - whenever we hear that a young child has gone missing. And even more heart wrenching when they are never found.

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There seem to have been several 'last throws of the dice' investigations. I don't know why they describe it as such, surely if there is a good lead they have no choice but to go after it?

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Sadly there appears to be nothing new here.  The police seem to be re-investigating an old allegation that happened near Sagres. A Polish man and his partner ( Wojciech and Annetta Krokowski) were allegedly chased off by an ex local for apparently trying to abduct his child (he didn't report it for several days) and taking pictures of others.  He was identified, traced and eliminated by Interpol early on.  There were even serious doubts the McCann's ever came into contact with them or were ever in the area (mobile pinging etc).

Some good information on the incident here http://www.richplanet.net/starship_main.php?ref=204&part=2

If they are chasing this it is another previously investigated dead end.

  • The witness never contacted Police even though he believed it was a serious attempt to kidnap his child.
  • He took pictures of the man on his phone only to realise later he had his finger over the lens.
  • He had a camera and took a picture of a parked car that he claimed the attempted abductor was fleeing.
  • The man took down the registration of the car the man got into but throws it away despite believing it was a serious attempt to abduct his child.
  • CCTV shows the alleged couple at the airport leaving without a child.
  • Passengers on the plane state they had no children with them and the passenger manifest confirms this.
  • Polish Police interrogated the couple and found no evidence of the incident.

 

 

 

Edited by skookum
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This being a public forum, we can't state the obvious, but start with, they are both doctors...

 

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5 hours ago, alibongo said:

This being a public forum, we can't state the obvious, but start with, they are both doctors...

 

Very sad that the police can wrap up the investigation into Ben Needham by digging up a toy car and determining he was probably accidentally killed and body concealed by a dead Greek digger driver, but continue to throw more money at this and its endless dead ends.

The truth is the truth whether it is pleasant or not. Ben Needham and Madeline McCann are both missing persons.  You cannot say abducted because in neither case has there been any evidence of abduction, just they are missing.

Why are Police convinced that Ben is dead (and have been since it was re-opened) and spend all the time looking for a grave yet Madeline they are convinced was taken?

In Portugal where there are various legal cases going on they are not allowed in court to refer to Madeline as abducted as they have failed to provide evidence this took place.  

The 10 million pound plus Scotland yard investigation remit was to "investigate the abduction of Madeline McCann as if it took place in Britain".  Surely it should have started at the beginning investigating all possibilities and eliminating them, especially as many call the Portuguese investigation botched and conducted by corrupt and Key Stone Cops.

If their investigation was so seriously flawed they could have missed vital information from the very beginning.  

Edited by skookum
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19 minutes ago, skookum said:

Very sad that the police can wrap up the investigation into Ben Needham by digging up a toy car and determining he was probably accidentally killed and body concealed by a dead Greek digger driver, but continue to throw more money at this and its endless dead ends.

The truth is the truth whether it is pleasant or not. Ben Needham and Madeline McCann are both missing persons.  You cannot say abducted because in neither case has there been any evidence of abduction, just they are missing.

Why are Police convinced that Ben is dead (and have been since it was re-opened) and spend all the time looking for a grave yet Madeline they are convinced was taken?

In Portugal where there are various legal cases going on they are not allowed in court to refer to Madeline as abducted as they have failed to provide evidence this took place.  

The 10 million pound plus Scotland yard investigation remit was to "investigate the abduction of Madeline McCann as if it took place in Britain".  Surely it should have started at the beginning investigating all possibilities and eliminating them, especially as many call the Portuguese investigation botched and conducted by corrupt and Key Stone Cops.

If their investigation was so seriously flawed they could have missed vital information from the very beginning.  

This was said to me by a doctor with regard to this case:

all people like their children to settle for the night so they can have a meal , doctors included.

The relevance of them being doctors (consultants) is not that they are important, but they are in a privileged position...

 

 

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1 minute ago, alibongo said:

This was said to me by a doctor with regard to this case:

all people like their children to settle for the night so they can have a meal , doctors included.

The relevance of them being doctors (consultants) is not that they are important, but they are in a privileged position...

 

 

I agree with privileged but Gerry was very well connected.  He had been at Downing street meetings before Madeline went missing.  Further evidence of them being connected were calls to the then Chancellor Gordon Brown and the Governments top PR/Spin doctor, Clarence Mitchel quitting his Government job and working for the McCann's very early on.

Both Ben and Madeline have very striking similarities. 

In Ben's case Greek police were convinced early on Ben was killed in a motorbike accident and concealed by his uncle.  His uncle was known to take Ben for rides, he left on his bike at around the same time Ben went missing and was gone a considerable time without good explanation.  The uncle returned with crash damage on his bike.  I can personally see why the police would follow this line of investigation.  Then the British press jump on it and stories of Gypsies and people traffickers are feed to the public.

Madeline McCann goes missing, we have conflicting statements, cadaver dogs,forensics in hire cars, publicly announced pacts by friends, mistaken identities, people virtually framed.  Weighing this up the police are convinced (even UK Police advised the Portuguese to) investigate the parents.  Again the media storm drops in and stories of Gypsies and people traffickers take over.

Of course I am not saying that the Greek or Portuguese Police are right in either case but they are only following lines of enquiry that would have almost certainly been taken if either took place in the UK.  However they have been ridiculed and shamed for daring to suggest such a thing.  

Think of Shannon Matthews, the Police went straight for the family and were right.

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Hi Skookum, you miss my point.

Imagine I am a brickie. I can bring some bricks home and build a garden wall.

Oh dear, the wall has fallen and caused damage.

What can I do?

I will say no more..

 

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  • 1 month later...

McCann's lose their appeal against Portuguese Policeman.

I am pretty much sure that this will be as popular as Brexit or Donald Trump as President to many.

However politics aside I think common sense has prevailed.

However you feel about the case the facts are the facts.

The McCann's insist their daughter was abducted and have provided evidence through police and investigators this is what happened.  The evidence is disputed and a 10 million pound plus investigation by the MET has so far failed to prove conclusively prove an abduction took place.  The McCann's have been paid for interviews and have written a book on their accounts and views of what happened.

A Portuguese detective has a different hypothesis on the case.  He has evidence that is also disputed that he believes that Madeline died in an accident and her body was concealed.   He wrote a book and made a video that was banned and he was sued for libel.  

He lost his case but has won the appeal.  

My common sense feeling is that although he believes something happened that he cannot prove, the McCann's also cannot prove he is wrong.

I know this is a sensitive case and I strongly have my doubts about certain aspects is this not just a common sense verdict based on the facts (the reason for appeal win yet to be published).?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4176546/Madeleine-McCann-s-parents-lose-appeal.html#reader-comments

What do you think?

 

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I wonder if she walked out and fell, someone thought it was a doll in the rubbish or something. I dunno, i believe it was accidental if she is dead

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On 4 December 2016 at 1:54 PM, Astra. said:

I simply can't begin to imagine the anguish and despair that Madeleine's parents or any parent who loses a child, under these type of circumstances must be going through. I hope that this fresh lead into her disappearance finally turns something up.

It reminds me of little 3 year old William Tryrrell who was snatched and disappeared without a trace from his grand-parents front yard in 2014.. in a small town in NSW...and still no fresh leads.

It's always horrible news - whenever we hear that a young child has gone missing. And even more heart wrenching when they are never found.

And I simply can't imagine going to another country and leaving the kids back at the hotel while I go out on the lash. That poor child is most likely dead. Shame on her parents.

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3 hours ago, SNR said:

And I simply can't imagine going to another country and leaving the kids back at the hotel while I go out on the lash. That poor child is most likely dead. Shame on her parents.

And I'm sure SNR - that her parents live with much regret, guilt and shame every waking hour. They have this heavy burden to carry for the rest of their lives. It's always easy to judge others, when we, ourselves haven't experienced such an awful type of loss.

 

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2 hours ago, Astra. said:

And I'm sure SNR - that her parents live with much regret, guilt and shame every waking hour. They have this heavy burden to carry for the rest of their lives. It's always easy to judge others, when we, ourselves haven't experienced such an awful type of loss.

 

Yeah, I'm just a carpenter, they were both doctors with probably ten times the intelligence than I. I wouldn't leave my children (if I had any) at home and go for a drink even in this country. Their actions cost the life of Madeleine. But irresponsible people probably don't feel the same emotions as responsible people. I couldn't & wouldn't live with myself. Period. I wouldn't risk it.. Would you?

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39 minutes ago, SNR said:

Yeah, I'm just a carpenter, they were both doctors with probably ten times the intelligence than I. I wouldn't leave my children (if I had any) at home and go for a drink even in this country. Their actions cost the life of Madeleine. But irresponsible people probably don't feel the same emotions as responsible people. I couldn't & wouldn't live with myself. Period. I wouldn't risk it.. Would you?

No I would never leave my / or any young children unattended and out of my sight... whilst out having drinky-poos and socialising with friends. I'm not condoning their actions. But at the end of the day they are and have been paying the ultimate price for being so casual and careless.

Maybe you would be happier - if they were strung up by their toes - and given a public flogging ? :huh:

All in all - it doesn't really matter what you or I think. It's never going to bring that little girl back.

Edited by Astra.
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1 hour ago, Still Waters said:

 

The Judgement was as I suspected.  The case was shelved in 2008 by the Portuguese as they felt they had no further leads to progress in the case.  Under their laws they are no longer suspects as the case is no longer active.

The British press have for a long time used the phrase 'cleared'.    I think the word 'cleared' gives the impression that conclusively you have been proven not to have any involvement, but under their definition is the case is not active so you are not formally a suspect but neither have you been formally cleared.

The best hope for the McCann's is Scotland Yard come up with something more conclusive in their last throw of the dice in the case.

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On 04/12/2016 at 11:22 PM, alibongo said:

Hi Skookum, you miss my point.

Imagine I am a brickie. I can bring some bricks home and build a garden wall.

Oh dear, the wall has fallen and caused damage.

What can I do?

I will say no more..

 

Are you not saying that sometimes brickies might miscalculate the ammount of bricks they need and use too many? Or just that they might build a wall before they went out for the evening? 

 

If it's the first I doubt it very much, if it's the latter then.....

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19 hours ago, Dyna said:

Do John and Tony Podesta Have a Connection with Missing Child, Madeleine McCann? I say likely.

http://victuruslibertas.com/2016/11/do-john-and-tony-podesta-have-a-connection-with-missing-child-madeleine-mccann/

It certainly seems viable.

The problem with these photo fits is we have no idea were they came from and exactly where they were supposedly seen and did that brought them into the case.

See what I am saying is if there was a murder in my town and I knew of a suspected or previously convicted murderer I could throw his/her picture into the mix.  However all it would do is show there is somebody with previous form that lives in the area.

These photo fits certainly do look like the Podesta's, but where were they seen, what evidence connects them to the case?

The most likely source of them comes from the Irish family who claim to have seen a man carrying a child down an alley way.  They didn't report it until months after the disappearance, and Mr Smith believed the person he saw carrying the child was Gerry McCann.  His identification came from a news report showing the McCann's coming down the steps of a plane with Gerry carrying one of their other children asleep.  He was convinced the way he carried the child was exactly what he saw that night.

But even the most hardened McCann critics have rightly said that most people on the planet carry sleeping children that way, it is not enough to identify somebody.  Both Mr Smith and his wife gave description which were apparently very different.

So if they are from that source it can only be one person.  If they are not what relevance do they have to the case, ie were they seen in the hotel, street, out at dinner, hiding round a corner? 

 

Edited by skookum
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Almost 10 years since.. Hope this year will be the year, they bring Mady home..

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