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What is the purpose of the recount?


and-then

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Jill Stein took less than 1% of the vote in the recent election but is utilizing her right to demand a recount in Wisconsin and Michigan.  Her team is attempting to get a Federal judge to allow a recount in Pennsylvania as well.  No evidence has been offered about hacking or fraud.  The rules are that if these recounts are not finished and the results legally certified, the Electors from these states cannot vote in the Electoral College on Dec. 19th.  If the judge refuses to demand a recount in Pennsylvania then the missing votes from WI and MI won't matter as much since the election result would remain as is for Trump.  If Pennsylvania's electors are included in this scenario, Trump wouldn't have enough Electoral votes for the College to declare him the winner, even though millions of voters in these states voted for him in a fair election.  The next step, officially, is that the House of Representatives would decide who the next president will be.  

My question is this - what possible good is this recount going to accomplish for the US?  It seems designed to de-legitimize the rightfully elected candidate.  

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I think it is a good thing, although I too wonder about Jill Stein's motives.  All during the campaign Trump kept saying he thought the election was fixed.  That made me suspicious of him.  Those committing an offense, such as lying about things, are the ones who complain first.  This is good propaganda technique.

Nevertheless, as we see, there is no evidence of fraud -- none -- the Trump people are saying lots of people voted illegally even though they have no evidence of it (transparent effort to justify laws that make voting complicated and difficult and make it easier to deny blacks and other minorities the right).  

So these recounts may be useful in rejecting the racist voting rules we might otherwise get (we may get them anyway).  It also may turn out that voting machines were tampered with.  How one would know I can't imagine, so I doubt this will happen, but it still is a possibility.

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Well, it will at least illuminate the massive amount of fraud perpetrated by "The Left" which we were hearing so much about before the election. 

Funny how nobody's mentioned that recently. Do you think they've all changed their mind?

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1 hour ago, Frank Merton said:

I think it is a good thing, although I too wonder about Jill Stein's motives.  All during the campaign Trump kept saying he thought the election was fixed.  That made me suspicious of him.  Those committing an offense, such as lying about things, are the ones who complain first.  This is good propaganda technique.

Nevertheless, as we see, there is no evidence of fraud -- none -- the Trump people are saying lots of people voted illegally even though they have no evidence of it (transparent effort to justify laws that make voting complicated and difficult and make it easier to deny blacks and other minorities the right).  

So these recounts may be useful in rejecting the racist voting rules we might otherwise get (we may get them anyway).  It also may turn out that voting machines were tampered with.  How one would know I can't imagine, so I doubt this will happen, but it still is a possibility.

He said the election could be fixed cause they already tried to steal the nomination from him, and they DID steal it from Bernie.

Second point we have the head of the election commission on tape saying illegals vote, and a lot more then that.

BTW I wish you knew how racists you sound believing black people are incapable of obtaining things like identification. Its just too complicated for em right Frank? SMH I know you don't mean to sound like a racist, but to any black person involved in society on any level, well you might as well just spit in their faces.

 

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1 hour ago, Arbenol said:

Well, it will at least illuminate the massive amount of fraud perpetrated by "The Left" which we were hearing so much about before the election. 

Funny how nobody's mentioned that recently. Do you think they've all changed their mind?

Not at all. Just wasn't enough. Actually its just a recount though. We still will have no idea how many illegals or dead people voted.

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It's one part denial, another part last-ditch-effort to keep Trump out of the White House.  They're probably hoping to keep the dislike of the election results relevant to those who voted Hillary and are hoping against hope that a combination of rogue electors, recount point swaps and the full might of the media will get Hillary in the White House.

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Because they can't believe all their machinations were for nawt. 

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20 minutes ago, Lord Fedorable said:

Because they can't believe all their machinations were for nawt. 

Naw.  Neither they nor I can believe so many Americans are so easily conned.

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2 hours ago, and then said:

Jill Stein took less than 1% of the vote in the recent election but is utilizing her right to demand a recount in Wisconsin and Michigan.  Her team is attempting to get a Federal judge to allow a recount in Pennsylvania as well.  No evidence has been offered about hacking or fraud.  The rules are that if these recounts are not finished and the results legally certified, the Electors from these states cannot vote in the Electoral College on Dec. 19th.  If the judge refuses to demand a recount in Pennsylvania then the missing votes from WI and MI won't matter as much since the election result would remain as is for Trump.  If Pennsylvania's electors are included in this scenario, Trump wouldn't have enough Electoral votes for the College to declare him the winner, even though millions of voters in these states voted for him in a fair election.  The next step, officially, is that the House of Representatives would decide who the next president will be.  

My question is this - what possible good is this recount going to accomplish for the US?  It seems designed to de-legitimize the rightfully elected candidate.  

“We’re going to the three states that are most likely to show hacking because they had razor-thin margins, because they have corrupt voting machines… In Wisconsin they use voting machines that are illegal to use in California because they are so tamper-friendly. They are wide open, they’re an invitation to tampering,” Stein explained to the FOX Business Network’s Kennedy.   

Jill Stein Cites Hacking Concerns as Reason for Recounts, Not Election Outcome

 

In 2016 elections, vote-counting methods included optical scan paper ballot systems, direct recording electronic systems, ballot marking devices, and even hand-counted paper ballots. The great advantage of paper-based systems is that voters effectively generate an independent record of each ballot cast, in addition to whatever ongoing tally is kept mechanically. Known as voter-verified paper audit trails, these records are essential to guaranteeing that your local voting machine isn’t prone to fraud or error. There are many ways to generate such trails; for instance, a machine may print a paper record of the votes you have cast, underneath a glass screen. Such paper records verify that the digital record of voting has some nondigital analog, which can then be compared against digital records in case they are suspected of being errant or altered.

However, as voting security expert J. Alex Halderman observed in mid-November, no state at that time was “planning to actually check the paper in a way that would reliably detect that the computer-based outcome was wrong.” That is a major problem—what is the use of a paper record if it is never audited?  Jill Stein’s Vote Recounts Won’t Change the Election Results We should do them anyway.

 

Its all about the good of the nation. The good is discovering the weaknesses in our voting process and the mechanisms of fraud and preventing them from being used in the future. Perhaps we can grow the process from the lessons learned and we wont have millions screaming about fraud next election cycle.  

If it was a referendum and a rejection of the left as the right is advertising it   then the election will stand as called and there are no worries. If there was fraud (as both sides agreed there was on election day) , barring MASSIVE fraud, then the election will stand as called and there are no worries. If there was massive fraud then the right should be just as concerned as the left because that same technique could be used against them the next time around. 

As far as the electors voting is concerned I think trump is doing enough damage on his own to call the electoral votes into question. Adding Ben Carson I think will make many electors begin to think even harder about the good of the nation (whether legitimate or not it seems christian conservatives are the only ones who dont find him embarrassing ). I know there are several in Washington who have already said theyre going to vote for an alternate republican and one in Texas i think who wont vote trump as well. 

Edited by Farmer77
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We have been conned for decades. This is the first time we have broken free from the con game. 

I'm so proud that sooo many in this country didn't tow the main stream media line like they ALWAYS do. They threw out every con game in the book, and it still wasn't enough

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Ha, if California sets the standards, there has never been a fair election in this country, ever. 

I agree though, there was almost certainly voter fraud in PA. She won 90% of the absentee ballots there, in a state she lost lol. Get the **** outta here. 

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Just now, preacherman76 said:

Ha, if California sets the standards, there has never been a fair election in this country, ever. 

I agree though, there was almost certainly voter fraud in PA. She won 90% of the absentee ballots there, in a state she lost lol. Get the **** outta here. 

Stein is no friend of the democrats, the goal is to discover fraud, not just  fraud for Trump. 

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12 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Stein is no friend of the democrats, the goal is to discover fraud, not just  fraud for Trump. 

Sure she is. The goal has nothing to do with fraud. She is trying to tie up the electors in PA, so he has less then the 270. They are clearly doing everything they possibly can to take away the legitimacy of his administration.  

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That's why she isn't calling for a recount in states Hilary won, where the count was even closer then in any of these three.

Edited by preacherman76
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7 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

That's why she isn't calling for a recount in states Hilary won, where the count was even closer then in any of these three.

Oh i dont think the states chosen were done so by accident and why not? I mean I have no doubt that given the infrastructure and money Stein would be calling for recounts nationwide but its not there so she had to pick just a few.

Trust me as a non partisan I can assure you  that having a desire to see trump disappear can have nothing to do with a love for hillary or democrats. 

This is all about exposing flaws in our voting system and getting them fixed. If it makes Trump go away, well thats a happy side effect. 

Edited by Farmer77
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11 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

Oh i dont think the states chosen were done so by accident and why not? I mean I have no doubt that given the infrastructure and money Stein would be calling for recounts nationwide but its not there so she had to pick just a few.

Trust me as a non partisan I can assure you  that having a desire to see trump disappear can have nothing to do with a love for hillary or democrats. 

This is all about exposing flaws in our voting system and getting them fixed. If it makes Trump go away, well thats a happy side effect. 

Then why not pick the states where its even more likely she find something? In states where the vote was even closer then the three she chose? Its cause Hillary won those states, that's why. This is soo obvious.

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Just now, preacherman76 said:

Then why not pick the states where its even more likely she find something? In states where the vote was even closer then the three she chose? Its cause Hillary won those states, that's why. This is soo obvious.

I dont believe the closeness of the vote was the deciding factor. The optical scanners not being audited, the machines themselves being hackable, 80k blank presidential ballots and;  bash California all you like but generally speaking their legislation is years ahead of the rest of the nation. The fact that one state is using a machine which another has said is too vulnerable to attack is insane to me and i think if it were a democrat president elect it would be to many more on this board as well. 

Like i said Trump going away would be a happy side effect but I dont believe thats the driving factor.  

Everyone agreed there was fraud on election day. The right wingers on this very forum posted a ton of examples of it happening so i find this "outrage" to be just a tad bit disingenuous. 

 

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PA has paper ballots that are scanned by machines that are not on-line. How were they hacked? What possible reason is there to waste millions of tax payers money when even they admit they have no reason whats so ever to believe any fraud happened at all? This is BS. Jill gets her 15 minutes, and gets to pocket a few million for doing the dems a service.

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1 minute ago, preacherman76 said:

PA has paper ballots that are scanned by machines that are not on-line. How were they hacked? What possible reason is there to waste millions of tax payers money when even they admit they have no reason whats so ever to believe any fraud happened at all? This is BS. Jill gets her 15 minutes, and gets to pocket a few million for doing the dems a service.

From Steins PA lawsuit: 

Voters are forced to use vulnerable, hackable, antiquated technology banned in other states, then rely on the kindness of machines," the complaint reads. "There is no paper trail. Voting machines are electoral black sites: no one permits voters or candidates to examine them."

The suit filed Monday questioned whether Pennsylvania votes were counted accurately. It said the voting machines used in the state "have serious cyber security problems."

Thats why PA. 

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donald-trumps-campaign-keeps-a-wall-of-s

~ yup ... that's what I was sayin' ... oopsie ~

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35 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

From Steins PA lawsuit: 

Voters are forced to use vulnerable, hackable, antiquated technology banned in other states, then rely on the kindness of machines," the complaint reads. "There is no paper trail. Voting machines are electoral black sites: no one permits voters or candidates to examine them."

The suit filed Monday questioned whether Pennsylvania votes were counted accurately. It said the voting machines used in the state "have serious cyber security problems."

Thats why PA. 

Which is obviously BS. How can a voting machine not connected to the internet have cyber security problems?

City Commissioner Al Schmidt said, emphasizing the difficulty of hacking voting machines that aren’t connected to the internet.

“We have very primitive voting machines here,” he said. “Our voting system is only vulnerable to individual cases of voting fraud, as we’ve seen. Whenever it does occur it would be someone going in and voting for somebody else or an election board manually adding votes, which is an entirely different thing than hacking.”

 

BTW the Philly count in is, she got 5 extra votes, and everyone else's stayed the same.

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30 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

I dont believe the closeness of the vote was the deciding factor....

 

Then why is Dr Stein just focusing in on the 3 swing states that clinched the electoral vote for Trump? The states that were super close for Clinton have the same vulnerabilities in cyber security and fraud. Heck, if one is talking hacking then just about every state *could* have been compromised...do we recount every state?

No, this nonsense is as partisan as it can get and it's being done to keep the left stirred up against Trump. God forbid that Trump is actually able to do anything as President (sarcasm). With this in mind get ready for elements of the left to hurl as many roadblocks as possible in PE Trump's direction.

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Just now, preacherman76 said:

Which is obviously BS. How can a voting machine not connected to the internet have cyber security problems?

City Commissioner Al Schmidt said, emphasizing the difficulty of hacking voting machines that aren’t connected to the internet.

“We have very primitive voting machines here,” he said. “Our voting system is only vulnerable to individual cases of voting fraud, as we’ve seen. Whenever it does occur it would be someone going in and voting for somebody else or an election board manually adding votes, which is an entirely different thing than hacking.”

 

BTW the Philly count in is, she got 5 extra votes, and everyone else's stayed the same.

US VOTE 'FRAUD' Edward Snowden shows how easy it is to HACK into a US voting machine with a £24 memory card  

 

He showed his 2.4 million Twitter followers a video in which experts were able to change the number of votes for each candidate in the computer memory – and also alter the paper-trail backup.

It doesnt need to be connected to the internet to get hacked as Snowden demonstrated above and as companies such as Symantec have demonstrated elsewhere. Seriously read the article its a good read. 

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Well then every state needs to be recounted, and everyone of these machines needs to go in the trash.

Now is hardly the time to question the integrity. That should have been done years ago, not right after a establishment loss.  

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8 minutes ago, Lilly said:

Then why is Dr Stein just focusing in on the 3 swing states that clinched the electoral vote for Trump? The states that were super close for Clinton have the same vulnerabilities in cyber security and fraud. Heck, if one is talking hacking then just about every state *could* have been compromised...do we recount every state?

No, this nonsense is as partisan as it can get and it's being done to keep the left stirred up against Trump. God forbid that Trump is actually able to do anything as President (sarcasm). With this in mind get ready for elements of the left to hurl as many roadblocks as possible in PE Trump's direction.

Why arent we recounting every state?  Isnt our nation worth that? I keep saying but the cash register at your local fast food joint gets counted by hand twice before being taken to the bank, doesnt our democracy deserve that much respect? 

 

3 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

Well then every state needs to be recounted, and everyone of these machines needs to go in the trash.

Now is hardly the time to question the integrity. That should have been done years ago, not right after a establishment loss.  

Now is the PERFECT time to question the integrity. Not because the "establishment lost" (because if you look at Trumps appointmees they clearly didnt)  but because it WAS a largely uncontested election. 

All of that aside, if now isnt a good time to secure our democracy when is? When "your guy" lost? 

Edited by Farmer77
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