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Pope sets out rules on homosexuality


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15 hours ago, danielost said:

yes, for the same reason that a man cannot have sex with another man.  waste of life.

That's really messed up, daniel. 

Don't you think it's a waste of life for a child to be born just to starve to death or die of some horrible disease? 

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On 12/12/2016 at 11:43 PM, psyche101 said:

LINK - Homosexuality as a Consequence of Epigenetically Canalized Sexual Development

 

It says that these are changes that affect not the structure of a gene but when, if, and how much of it is activated—by chemically altering a gene's promoter region or "on" switch.

Anyone know more on this?

I wish I was better versed in some of the terminology but this link illustrates at a fundamental level how a developing fetus can be subject to variations in gene expression resulting in homosexuality... This is not a choice with gay people.They are born this way. Why then would you ever discriminate against a gay person. Its inhumane. We cannot progress as a society with this form of prejudice.The pope/church perpetuates this prejudice. Gay people should be a non-issue and the rest of us should mind our own business seriously!

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18 minutes ago, khol said:

I wish I was better versed in some of the terminology but this link illustrates at a fundamental level how a developing fetus can be subject to variations in gene expression resulting in homosexuality... This is not a choice with gay people.They are born this way. Why then would you ever discriminate against a gay person. Its inhumane. We cannot progress as a society with this form of prejudice.The pope/church perpetuates this prejudice.

I haven't seen any actual scientific proof that gays are born gay, and that it's just a choice made by the person in question.  Doesn't change my opinion on them one way or the other, as long as they are happy with their lifestyle choices, I'm content to not worry about what they do.

Quote

Gay people should be a non-issue and the rest of us should mind our own business seriously!

And vice-versa.

Edited by Thorvir
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5 minutes ago, Thorvir said:

I haven't seen any actual scientific proof that gays are born gay, and that it's just a choice made by the person in question.  Doesn't change my opinion on them one way or the other, as long as they are happy with their lifestyle choices, I'm content to not worry about what they do.

And vice-versa.

People say that, and yet I wonder if they "chose" to be whatever they are. Did you "choose," Thorvir? I certainly didn't. I knew I liked boys since I was a very little girl. It's something I've always known. It wasn't a "choice" I made, to like boys in that special tingly way. Lol. 

That's really all the proof I need, although you find actual scientific evidence if you're really interested in knowing that stuff.

Edited by ChaosRose
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15 minutes ago, Thorvir said:

I haven't seen any actual scientific proof that gays are born gay, and that it's just a choice made by the person in question.  Doesn't change my opinion on them one way or the other, as long as they are happy with their lifestyle choices, I'm content to not worry about what they do.

And vice-versa.

I hear you. I am the same to a point. Im content not to worry about what they do either. But when you hear the hypocrisy from the pope you feel compelled at times to voice an opinion about it.

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4 hours ago, Rofflaren said:

I guess its not ok too m********e then? (satisfy yourself)
 

NO!   Thats where it comes from   ... ooops ... I mean, thats how it started - in the BIble .... Onan  and all that !  

he spilled his seed upon the ground .     Some say its a waste of jewish babies ... who knows back then it could have been an edict  against publc masterbation ?    or  ' littering '    ....  or    

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5 hours ago, danielost said:

exactly.  and it waste genetic material.  thus killing life that may have had a chance.  small as it is.  women having sex with other women doesn't.

Am I allowed to have sex with another man if we dont ejaculate ? 

( PS:  You 'theology' is falling apart like an old Chinese motorcycle  )

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3 hours ago, ChaosRose said:

People say that, and yet I wonder if they "chose" to be whatever they are. Did you "choose," Thorvir? I certainly didn't. I knew I liked boys since I was a very little girl. It's something I've always known. It wasn't a "choice" I made, to like boys in that special tingly way. Lol. 

That's really all the proof I need, although you find actual scientific evidence if you're really interested in knowing that stuff.

Indeed , as I have said all along ;  if you can choose one or the other ... you are  bi sexual .  

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1 hour ago, back to earth said:

he spilled his seed upon the ground .     Some say its a waste of jewish babies .

It's funny though. All that sperm and only one makes it. 

227673-Thats-The-Sperm-That-Won-.jpg

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6 hours ago, khol said:

I hear you. I am the same to a point. Im content not to worry about what they do either. But when you hear the hypocrisy from the pope you feel compelled at times to voice an opinion about it.

I'm not sure "hypocrisy" accurately covers what his Popeness says, in this case, but whenever he does speak, I'm inclined to just ignore him or have a good laugh at his expense.  He has nothing to do with my life and will never have anything to do with my life.  And, the same applies to me...nothing I do or say will change his ways.  I kinda like that relationship.

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6 hours ago, khol said:

I wish I was better versed in some of the terminology but this link illustrates at a fundamental level how a developing fetus can be subject to variations in gene expression resulting in homosexuality... This is not a choice with gay people.They are born this way. Why then would you ever discriminate against a gay person. Its inhumane. We cannot progress as a society with this form of prejudice.The pope/church perpetuates this prejudice. Gay people should be a non-issue and the rest of us should mind our own business seriously!

That is what I am getting from it, a genetic disposition, like being born with say black or red hair, or green eyes. 

If I understand it, I too am hoping someone who is well versed medically can explain this in more detail. 

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6 hours ago, Thorvir said:

I haven't seen any actual scientific proof that gays are born gay, and that it's just a choice made by the person in question.  Doesn't change my opinion on them one way or the other, as long as they are happy with their lifestyle choices, I'm content to not worry about what they do.

Did you have a look at the link I left for Khol?

LINK - Homosexuality as a Consequence of Epigenetically Canalized Sexual Development

6 hours ago, Thorvir said:

And vice-versa.

Indeed, we all need to be mindful of the needs of a society over individual wants. 

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13 minutes ago, Thorvir said:

I'm not sure "hypocrisy" accurately covers what his Popeness says, in this case, but whenever he does speak, I'm inclined to just ignore him or have a good laugh at his expense.  He has nothing to do with my life and will never have anything to do with my life.  And, the same applies to me...nothing I do or say will change his ways.  I kinda like that relationship.

The millions he does influence have a marked effect on society, and that does affect all of us, even if in ways subtle enough not to notice. How many thousands or millions died that did not have to while he deliberated condom use? 

Edited by psyche101
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13 hours ago, rashore said:

Since you feel that way.. is it safe to assume you are strongly against birth control of any type?

             

one is the condom, except natural forms if you must have sex with a stranger the only safe 

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12 hours ago, ChaosRose said:

That's really messed up, daniel. 

Don't you think it's a waste of life for a child to be born just to starve to death or die of some horrible disease? 

no, i don't god sent them here for a purpose and i believe that during the thousand years of peace they will get a second chance.  that being said,  we have enough food to feed the hungry all we have to do is get off our wallets and build infrastructure to get the food to them.  and take out the evil leaders who won't let us.

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46 minutes ago, back to earth said:

The silliness of wanting to feed the hungry . 

The silliness of wanting to feed the hungry .  Oh it worked, quote thing

.... still getting use to site, yesterday I finally went over some of the rules and regs and policiesDIGRESSSSING imagine that.

Actually I was indicating or referring to a .... something about ? ... okay it was life as test (Ripley's)believe it or not thread and the (commentator)person was jumped on HA! by OP instead of looking at what commentator had said ..... later you mentioned something like :: subject I'm guessin

I HAD TO CHUCKLE
Kind of funny, back in that one(thread) it seemed like there were dreamers(counselors/online philosophy etc. degrees) and one or two heavy multi Ph.D. Psychiatry hitters in there, sheeze for me very enlightening and I also learned a word can never be worn out as in ineffffffable over and over an oh and ignorant YEY! truly educational : D.

 

Edited by MWoo7
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On 12/9/2016 at 7:30 AM, Arbenol said:

You were sexually assaulted and that is totally unacceptable. I'm not surprised you felt like caving his head in.

Many women have that same experience every weekend in a club or pub somewhere.

It's a crime and sexuality probably has little to do with it.

I think we need to keep our heads about us and not fly off the handle like that.  The act is crude and stupid and boorish and barbaric and whatever, regardless of the sexes of the people involved, but I can think of a lot of far worse personal offenses.  Just look at them and tell them to keep their hands to themselves.  Enough.  Anything more is I think excessive and reveals hidden personal fears, and responding to such a provocation with violence should cause the violent person greater punishment.

All in all I think Americans respond excessively to most sexual misbehavior.  The criminal penalties for what to me are trivialities and should end in nothing more than fines, such as peeping toms or sex with seventeen-year-olds by eighteen-year-olds,  are similar to those for drug abuse (where penalties are also excessive -- no wonder America has more people in jail per capita than the worst dictatorships).  I don't know where it comes from, except that Americans (especially men) seem to be way more tight-assed than appropriate or healthy, and far too eager to resort to punitive, irrational responses.

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Frank .... the Philippines !     

 

Related image

 

" Surrender "   ? !   ...... now, why would they do that  ?   

At first I see a very strong USA influence there ... but this guy does not seem very USA focused ? 

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On Tuesday, December 20, 2016 at 6:43 PM, psyche101 said:

I think the fact that we are discussing his announcement illustrates the very opposite.

I haven't heard anyone say it influences them.

If you talking about us two - well your conviction and passion are admirable. Me continuing to argue that this topic will have little effect is absurd.

On Tuesday, December 20, 2016 at 6:43 PM, psyche101 said:

Not sure why, they are very good, and he gets a very hand on approach. I find his work quite in depth. I saw the Wiki Link and followed it, not sure why it says only Phelps family is involved, I saw people on the documentary who were not family. Both in the Church and at the pickets. 

It's not a comment on Theroux.

I'm uninterested in Phelps and anything to do with him.

On Tuesday, December 20, 2016 at 6:43 PM, psyche101 said:

I think the persistence of segregation via faith applies to the point though. 

If you're calling people attending different churches services 'segregation' ...

That's not how I'd use the word.

On Tuesday, December 20, 2016 at 6:43 PM, psyche101 said:

Not that little, abortion is still illegal as far as I know. 

I've seen some pretty good examples of the alternative to abortion.

I've found myself being critical of some parenting; but I've never found myself thinking that a child should never have been born.

Last time I posted on this subject the reference to an incident where a RTL gathering was interrupted was removed.

On Tuesday, December 20, 2016 at 6:43 PM, psyche101 said:

I cannot argue that, you are right.

Then wouldn't the initial civil union's thing also buck the system? If the Pope can make allowances for that, it seems disingenuous to take half a step in that direction. 

I think Bergoglio was basically acknowledging economical factors necessarily play a part in society.

Championing the principal of the separation of the church and state, while demandng change in a Theology seems inconsistent. 

Not that it is important... but I may, or may not, reply.  I'm not sure what coverage I'll have over the next couple of weeks.;)

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8 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

I haven't heard anyone say it influences them.

More referring to the photos of thousands surrounding him wherever he goes. I know when he visited Sydney, a heck of a lot of people suddenly got religion. 

8 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

If you talking about us two - well your conviction and passion are admirable. Me continuing to argue that this topic will have little effect is absurd.

I appreciate your point of view because I do see you as one of the more astute posters. I may not seem appreciative, but I do deeply respect your point of view. 

8 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

It's not a comment on Theroux.

I'm uninterested in Phelps and anything to do with him.

Ahh, my bad, sorry, Cannot blame you I suppose. 

8 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

If you're calling people attending different churches services 'segregation' ...

That's not how I'd use the word.

Having lived through a JW experience, it very much seems like that to me. 

8 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

I've seen some pretty good examples of the alternative to abortion.

I've found myself being critical of some parenting; but I've never found myself thinking that a child should never have been born.

I cannot agree, a young girl raped by a bunch of disgusting freaks, the sorry lives that children have in overpopulated third world countries. Some of those existences seem very cruel to me. A life of pain and hardship just seems a big ask to be honest. 

8 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

Last time I posted on this subject the reference to an incident where a RTL gathering was interrupted was removed.

Seems a shame, I would have been interested in your thoughts there.

8 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

I think Bergoglio was basically acknowledging economical factors necessarily play a part in society.

Forgive my ignorance, but how would that apply here? 

8 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

Championing the principal of the separation of the church and state, while demandng change in a Theology seems inconsistent. 

Well, yes I suppose so, but one might say the same of the Pope accepting "abominations" into the fold to begin with? It had to be due to community pressure, I honestly doubt it was divine inspiration. Or that the Pope even entirely believes in what he proclaimed going by later comments. 

8 hours ago, Golden Duck said:

Not that it is important... but I may, or may not, reply.  I'm not sure what coverage I'll have over the next couple of weeks.;)

Sounds like you are out and away from civilisation, I will be working through, and now green with envy!

Unless the new Avatar was prompted by the Golden Casket!! If so - congrats!!!

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38 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

...

Having lived through a JW experience, it very much seems like that to me. 

I think I know a JW.  I once got annoyed and asked them if they were judging me. I never felt the need to do it again.

It seems the usual way to question religion/doctrine as if they were a set of rules. But, it seems more natural, to me (of course), to question the super-natural. Then wouldn't a humanist still have some appreciation for something created by man? I can't be going back to first principles all the time.

38 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

I cannot agree, a young girl raped by a bunch of disgusting freaks, the sorry lives that children have in overpopulated third world countries. Some of those existences seem very cruel to me. A life of pain and hardship just seems a big ask to be honest. 

Hmmm... what I've observed is surely a minute sample, but I still remain hopeful. I doubt I'd ever offer anyone guidance.  I don't relish validating anyone's fears or dismisding them.

38 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Seems a shame, I would have been interested in your thoughts there.

A Pro-life gathering was gatecrashed by a pro-choice in Melbourne (iirc).  The pro-choice groups placards are apparently too graphic for this site.

38 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Forgive my ignorance, but how would that apply here? 

Well, yes I suppose so, but one might say the same of the Pope accepting "abominations" into the fold to begin with? It had to be due to community pressure, I honestly doubt it was divine inspiration. Or that the Pope even entirely believes in what he proclaimed going by later comments. 

Bergoglio touched on those when talking about civil-unions.

You have to remember even the Church recognises the difference between people and acts.

38 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Sounds like you are out and away from civilisation, I will be working through, and now green with envy!

Unless the new Avatar was prompted by the Golden Casket!! If so - congrats!!!

Off to Jamaica. Half of Christmas day will be in Dubai - so ham is doubtful.

I think I had a wave of sentimentality for my glory days in lower grade cricket. Nothing life changing.

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On 12/20/2016 at 11:33 PM, danielost said:

no, i don't god sent them here for a purpose and i believe that during the thousand years of peace they will get a second chance.  that being said,  we have enough food to feed the hungry all we have to do is get off our wallets and build infrastructure to get the food to them.  and take out the evil leaders who won't let us.

cru·el·ty
ˈkro͞o(ə)ltē/
noun
 
  1. callous indifference to or pleasure in causing pain and suffering.
    "he has treated her with extreme cruelty"
    synonyms: brutality, savagery, inhumanity, barbarity, barbarousness, brutishness, sadism, bloodthirstiness, viciousness, wickedness; More
     
     
    • behavior that causes pain or suffering to a person or animal.
      "we can't stand cruelty to animals"
    • LAW
      behavior that causes physical or mental harm to another, especially a spouse, whether intentionally or not.
       
       
       
      If there is no god we can blame people for the starvation and death of individuals, if there is a god it is not a loving one but cruel. 
       
      As for growing food, there are so many ways that we can grow it it's ridiculous
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