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Reconstructed face of Robert the Bruce


Still Waters

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Historians have unveiled a digitally-reconstructed image of the face of Robert the Bruce almost 700 years after his death.

The image has been produced using casts from what is believed to be the skull of the famous Scottish king.

It is the culmination of a two-year research project by researchers at universities in Glasgow and Liverpool.

Until now, portraits and statues of the victor of Bannockburn have relied on artists' imaginations.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-38242781

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Very interesting.  A 21st century death mask - without the mess endured when using plaster of paris.

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11 hours ago, OverSword said:

I like the way they added leprosy.  Yuck.

In the UK a leper can change it's spots.

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I'm 7th or 8th generation Scotch-Irish American. Maybe I'm kin to him?:P:)

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13 minutes ago, Mark56 said:

I'm 7th or 8th generation Scotch-Irish American. Maybe I'm kin to him?:P:)

Just a reminder, 'scotch' is the drink, Scots are the people.

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6 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

Just a reminder, 'scotch' is the drink, Scots are the people.

Increasingly so in modern usage, but I can recall older folk referring to Scottish people as  "Scotch  ******** ". :P  It is preserved in terms such as 'scotch mist'

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14 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

Just a reminder, 'scotch' is the drink, Scots are the people.

Yes, I've heard this more and more over the years, and no disrespect was intended. I hear people using the term "Scots- Irish" more often than I guess the old fashioned misnomer of "Scotch-Irish". And I hear the term "Ulster Irish" used in England, which is not used at all in the USA

But, it really was what my Dad use to tell us we were: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotch-Irish_Americans

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5 minutes ago, Mark56 said:

 

Yes, I've heard this more and more over the years, and no disrespect was intended. I hear people using the term "Scots- Irish" more often than I guess the old fashioned misnomer of "Scotch-Irish". And I hear the term "Ulster Irish" used in England, which is not used at all in the USA

But, it really was what my Dad use to tell us we were: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotch-Irish_Americans

Yeah, I guess that it is an 'Americanism'.

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I've seen this sort of facial reconstruction done on archaeology programs and have wondered how accurate it is. A way of testing the accuracy would be to try out the process on a skull of someone who is recently deceased, but without making any photographs of the person available. If the reconstruction is recognizably the same as the person was in life, then that would give credence to the process. 

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6 hours ago, Habitat said:

Increasingly so in modern usage, but I can recall older folk referring to Scottish people as  "Scotch  ******** ". :P  It is preserved in terms such as 'scotch mist'

Education will eventually save you all.

You know, if you laid every Australian girl end-to-end.... I wouldn't be at all surprised.

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the best way is to get a replica skull dont mention who it is and send it to experts in their field with a basic description of anglosaxon male with the age. Then when the reconstruction is complete compare the different faces and see how similar

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7 minutes ago, Eldorado said:

Education will eventually save you all.

You know, if you laid every Australian girl end-to-end.... I wouldn't be at all surprised.

Aye laddie ! What a bonny idea !

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32 minutes ago, Eye of Giza said:

the best way is to get a replica skull dont mention who it is and send it to experts in their field with a basic description of anglosaxon male with the age. Then when the reconstruction is complete compare the different faces and see how similar

Why Anglo-Saxon?

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7 hours ago, Likely Guy said:

Just a reminder, 'scotch' is the drink, Scots are the people.

Just a reminder - whisky is the drink, and is only scotch when it is from Scotland. When the whiskey - with an "e" - is from Ireland, it is not scotch. When it is from Japan, it's whatever the hell you want it to be!

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2 hours ago, Derek Willis said:

Just a reminder - whisky is the drink, and is only scotch when it is from Scotland. When the whiskey - with an "e" - is from Ireland, it is not scotch. When it is from Japan, it's whatever the hell you want it to be!

I think 'scotch' in terms of Whisky is just an Americanism, I don't think I've heard the term except TV. I like Japanese whisk(e)y it's expensive though. But Irish is my favourite. Actually Canadian Crown Royal might be, but you don't see that. I've got a real craving for Laphroig/TCP at the moment though, but I wouldn't be able to say why. I'm not going to mention Penderyn because it's a total ***k up from begging to end. 

 

Anyway, I don't like any of these reconstructions, they never look like real people so much as photo-fits. The British here may remember there was a forensic sculptor who was always wheeled out to reconstruct faces back in the 90's, and they all looked a) pretty much the same, b ) and pretty much the same as her. 

 

 

Edited by oldrover
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1 hour ago, oldrover said:

I think 'scotch' in terms of Whisky is just an Americanism ...

Anyway, I don't like any of these reconstructions, they never look like real people so much as photo-fits. The British here may remember there was a forensic sculptor who was always wheeled out to reconstruct faces back in the 90's, and they all looked a) pretty much the same, b ) and pretty much the same as her.

You are right about "scotch" being an Americanism. In the movies people like Frank Sinatra were always asking for "scotch on the rocks". In the UK - at least until recently - someone might have a little water in their whisky, but never ice! And imagine mixing a twenty-year-old single malt - the nectar of the gods - with lemonade!

And you are right about the facial reconstructions. They did all look the same. And for some reason, they all seemed to have big noses!

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14 hours ago, Mark56 said:

I'm 7th or 8th generation Scotch-Irish American. Maybe I'm kin to him?:P:)

Why don't you just say you're Anglo Saxon, the term Scots/Irish is people who came from lowland Scotland and border England Northumberland, Cumberland, (Cumberland gap) and the lowland Scots and English who went from what we call Northern Ireland, De Bruce was a robber baron Norman Knight.

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29 minutes ago, hetrodoxly said:

Why don't you just say you're Anglo Saxon, the term Scots/Irish is people who came from lowland Scotland and border England Northumberland, Cumberland, (Cumberland gap) and the lowland Scots and English who went from what we call Northern Ireland, De Bruce was a robber baron Norman Knight.

I hear you. I have an Mc surname, but most Scots-Irish have English surnames.Some were French Huguenots and even Germans  It's really more of an odd culture that developed than a race of people.. The only binding force  really was their Presbyterianism(which oddly enough many don't practice today)

I liked the quote from  the former U.S. Senator James Webb who wrote a book on the Scots-Irish: (and I'm paraphrasing) Oh,  the Scots-Irish who are neither Scots nor Irish.

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26 minutes ago, Mark56 said:

I hear you. I have an Mc surname, but most Scots-Irish have English surnames.Some were French Huguenots and even Germans  It's really more of an odd culture that developed than a race of people.. The only binding force  really was their Presbyterianism(which oddly enough many don't practice today)

I liked the quote from  the former U.S. Senator James Webb who wrote a book on the Scots-Irish: (and I'm paraphrasing) Oh,  the Scots-Irish who are neither Scots nor Irish.

I don't think there's any Mc or Irish 'O' in the traditional Appalachian names, the two most noted feuding Hillbilly family's the Sutton's and Taylor's both came from the Black Country (west Midlands) of England) it's said they fought on the ship going across the pond.

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1 hour ago, hetrodoxly said:

I don't think there's any Mc or Irish 'O' in the traditional Appalachian names, the two most noted feuding Hillbilly family's the Sutton's and Taylor's both came from the Black Country (west Midlands) of England) it's said they fought on the ship going across the pond.

Oh no, there are plenty of Mc Surnames in the American South(in America in general really)which includes Appalachia,(the Hatfield and McCoy feud). One of my Great Grandmothers was an O'Kelly. I'm also kin to the Spencer, Rutledge, Rose, Cox, and Arnold clans(these are just a few family names I can think of off the top of my head) I'm telling you it's an odd mish-mash culture, but it is a unique culture. it's not one kind of people.

you can check here too:https://www.amazon.com/Cracker-Culture-Celtic-Ways-South/dp/0817304584   and also here a list of Scots-Irish Americans :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Scotch-Irish_Americans

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1 hour ago, Mark56 said:

Oh no, there are plenty of Mc Surnames in the American South(in America in general really)which includes Appalachia,(the Hatfield and McCoy feud). One of my Great Grandmothers was an O'Kelly. I'm also kin to the Spencer, Rutledge, Rose, Cox, and Arnold clans(these are just a few family names I can think of off the top of my head) I'm telling you it's an odd mish-mash culture, but it is a unique culture. it's not one kind of people.

you can check here too:https://www.amazon.com/Cracker-Culture-Celtic-Ways-South/dp/0817304584   and also here a list of Scots-Irish Americans :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Scotch-Irish_Americans

Here's the top 10  Appalachian Aristocrac. there's not an Irish name in the top 30, it was Scottish and English who settled the Appalachians

the first log cabin built there was by the Englishman 'Walker' there's nothing more English than clogging.

1. TATE (1473)
2. CHRISTIAN (1136)
3. BEAVERS (766)
4. WHITAKER (570)
5. Alexander (569)
6. ALTIZER (511)
7. Russell (456)
8. Hypes (343)
9. CASTELLAW (338)
10. DUKE (337)
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20 hours ago, hetrodoxly said:

Here's the top 10  Appalachian Aristocrac. there's not an Irish name in the top 30, it was Scottish and English who settled the Appalachians

the first log cabin built there was by the Englishman 'Walker' there's nothing more English than clogging.

1. TATE (1473)
2. CHRISTIAN (1136)
3. BEAVERS (766)
4. WHITAKER (570)
5. Alexander (569)
6. ALTIZER (511)
7. Russell (456)
8. Hypes (343)
9. CASTELLAW (338)
10. DUKE (337)

Right, Most Scotch-Irish don't have Irish names. They usually have Scottish or English surnames, BUT! you can have an Irish surname, it's not exclusionary (Audie Murphy comes to mind, the most highly decorated US Soldier of WW2 and Congressional  Medal of Honor  recipient, he was 5' 5" tall and weighed 114 pounds when he enlisted).

Here's a list of 16 US presidents who were of Scotch-Irish extraction: not one has an Irish name:https://www.google.com/search?q=scotch-irish+presidents&newwindow=1&client=aff-maxthon-maxthon4&affdom=maxthon.com&channel=t23&tbm=nws&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjkkbq_n-_QAhXhhlQKHWvtDkgQ_AUICSgC&biw=1871&bih=919&dpr=1#q=scotch-irish+presidents&newwindow=1&channel=t23

You seem to be disturbed by this revelation. I get the hunch you're not from the States. This is really common knowledge in any American High School history class. Just look at a bottle of American Bourbon(90% of Bourbon is made in Kentucky ,the heart of Appalachia) It's spelled Bourbon whiskEy on they bottle. Why would Scotsman spell whisky the Irish way, whiskey? I'll tell you why, because these Scots hung out in  Ireland for about a 100 years before they came to the USA.

I'm not saying that Southern Appalachia was exclusively settled by the Scotch-Irish but it was overwhelmingly settled by the Scotch-Irish. The historical docmentation is voluminous and incontrovertible. Just look it up.

Yes, a small band of Low-land Scots who spoke English and called themselves Irish and many who had English surnames, migrated to this country in the 1700's by the tens of thousands and had a tremendous impact on the building of this nation and creating the American character.

But hey,you don't have to believe me, just google it, research it yourself.There's tons of stuff on the internet about it.  And I also suggest former U S Senator James Webb's book  on the subject: Born Fighting: How the Scots-Irish shaped America, a very good read:.https://www.amazon.com/Born-Fighting-Scots-Irish-Shaped-America/dp/0767916891.

Anyway, isn't history strange? I'm done with this subject. Have a nice day sir !:D

Edited by Mark56
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2 minutes ago, Mark56 said:

Right, Most Scotch-Irish don't have Irish names. They usually have Scottish or English surnames, BUT! you can have an Irish surname, it's not exclusionary (Audie Murphy comes to mind, the most highly decorated US Soldier of WW2 and congressional medal recipient, he was 5' 5" tall and weighed 114 pounds when he enlisted).

Here's a list of 16 US presidents who were of Scotch-Irish extraction: not one has an Irish name:https://www.google.com/search?q=scotch-irish+presidents&newwindow=1&client=aff-maxthon-maxthon4&affdom=maxthon.com&channel=t23&tbm=nws&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjkkbq_n-_QAhXhhlQKHWvtDkgQ_AUICSgC&biw=1871&bih=919&dpr=1#q=scotch-irish+presidents&newwindow=1&channel=t23

You seem to be disturbed by this revelation. I get the hunch you're not from the States. This is really common knowledge in any American High School history class. Just look at a bottle of American Bourbon(90% of Bourbon is made in Kentucky ,the heart of Appalachia) It's spelled Bourbon whiskEy on they bottle. Why would Scotsman spell whisky the Irish way, whiskey? I'll tell you why, because these Scots hung out in  Ireland for about a 100 years before they came to the USA.

I'm not saying that Southern Appalachia was exclusively settled by the Scotch-Irish but it was overwhelmingly settled by the Scotch-Irish. The historical docmentation is voluminous and incontrovertible. Just look it up.

Yes, a small band of Low-land Scots who spoke English and called themselves Irish and many who had English surnames, migrated to this country in the 1700's by the tens of thousands and had a tremendous impact on the building of this nation and creating the American character.

But hey,you don't have to believe me, just google it, research it yourself.There's tons of stuff on the internet about it.  And I also suggest former U S Senator James Webb's book  on the subject: Born Fighting: How the Scots-Irish shaped America, a very good read:.https://www.amazon.com/Born-Fighting-Scots-Irish-Shaped-America/dp/0767916891.

Anyway, isn't history strange? I'm done with this subject. Have a nice day sir !:D

The reason they don't have Irish names is because they weren't Irish, there's lots of nonsense written about 'Scots/Irish' i'm not saying the Irish didn't settle America but not at the time of the Appalachians being settled, English planters also went to northern Ireland and onto America, how did the English spell  whiskies believe it or not there were stills all over England every farm in the lake district would have made it, have you not wondered why there's no Catholicism, no Irish traditions or Scottish really the traditions are British.

" Initially the push for European settlement of the Piedmont came from English colonists living in the east"

"Settlers of English descent also came into the Piedmont. Two groups concentrated in the northern part. By 1754 English Quakers had organized the New Garden Monthly Meeting. This congregation attracted settlers from several counties in the Piedmont. The other English group included settlers from central Virginia, mostly Baptist, who arrived during and after the French and Indian War (1754–1763

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