Popular Post kmt_sesh Posted December 10, 2016 Popular Post #1 Share Posted December 10, 2016 Some of you may have seen some news pieces lately on the analysis of a pair of mummified knees found in KV66, the royal tomb of Queen Nefertari, Great Wife of Ramesses II. Here is a pretty good example from the media: Mystery of ancient Egyptian legs likely solved It was long assumed that the pair of fragmented legs belonged to Nefertari, but other scenarios had been presented that could offer different explanations (such as a mummified body being washed into the tomb in some long-ago flash flood). A recent scientific investigation has approached the question from multiple angles and the scientists feel reasonably certain that these fragments are indeed the last mortal remains of one of the greatest queens from ancient Egypt. The other day in an EEF email I received a link to the online report from the team, so I thought I would share it here: Queen Nefertari: A Multidisciplinary Investigation So here is an example of modern science applied to archaeological discovery, and the answers technology can provide. Those of a fringe bent like to claim how behind the times Egyptology is, yet here is a glaring example of how abjectly foolish such a statement is. In fact, science and Egyptology go hand in hand. Enjoy the report. I know I did, but I'm a geek. 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brlesq1 Posted December 10, 2016 #2 Share Posted December 10, 2016 A bit over my head, but very interesting, nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likely Guy Posted December 10, 2016 #3 Share Posted December 10, 2016 I always was a 'leg man'. Too soon? 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmt_sesh Posted December 10, 2016 Author #4 Share Posted December 10, 2016 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Likely Guy said: I always was a 'leg man'. Too soon? Never too soon. Ramesses himself seemed quite smitten with the queen, so it's more than likely she had a nice set of gams. In fact, based on the most current forensic modeling, here's a scientific recreation of what Nefertari must have looked like: Editing to add: See? I'm a geek with a sense of humor. Edited December 10, 2016 by kmt_sesh 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likely Guy Posted December 10, 2016 #5 Share Posted December 10, 2016 (edited) Damn hot nice gams, I'm in like Flint, where do I sign up? Edit: No one really cares about science. Edited December 10, 2016 by Likely Guy 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonKing Posted December 10, 2016 #6 Share Posted December 10, 2016 5 minutes ago, kmt_sesh said: Never too soon. Ramesses himself seemed quite smitten with the queen, so it's more than likely she had a nice set of gams. In fact, based on the most current forensic modeling, here's a scientific recreation of what Nefertari must have looked like: Editing to add: See? I'm a geek with a sense of humor. I'm sorry but your sense of humor is sickening!!! Gams?! Oh my!!! ...Yeah right... Recreation looks damn fine to me 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmt_sesh Posted December 10, 2016 Author #7 Share Posted December 10, 2016 (edited) 23 minutes ago, CrimsonKing said: ... Recreation looks damn fine to me Well, given that my topics tend to be a bit academic and dry, I realized needed to use the right...um...motivation to draw in posters. Edited December 10, 2016 by kmt_sesh 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likely Guy Posted December 10, 2016 #8 Share Posted December 10, 2016 Almost a Frazetta. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P.Nomenon Posted December 10, 2016 #9 Share Posted December 10, 2016 (edited) 4 hours ago, kmt_sesh said: Never too soon. Ramesses himself seemed quite smitten with the queen, so it's more than likely she had a nice set of gams. In fact, based on the most current forensic modeling, here's a scientific recreation of what Nefertari must have looked like: Editing to add: See? I'm a geek with a sense of humor. Wow. Imagine the traffic she caused on the nile delta Edited December 10, 2016 by P.Nomenon 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DebDandelion Posted December 10, 2016 #10 Share Posted December 10, 2016 (edited) 4 hours ago, kmt_sesh said: Never too soon. Ramesses himself seemed quite smitten with the queen, so it's more than likely she had a nice set of gams. In fact, based on the most current forensic modeling, here's a scientific recreation of what Nefertari must have looked like: Editing to add: See? I'm a geek with a sense of humor. Love those shoes! Edited December 10, 2016 by DebDandelion Edited to smile and go yeah...that's what I got from the picture... LoL 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldorado Posted December 10, 2016 #11 Share Posted December 10, 2016 Now we know why young men were always crashing or falling off chariots. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harte Posted December 10, 2016 #12 Share Posted December 10, 2016 12 hours ago, kmt_sesh said: Never too soon. Ramesses himself seemed quite smitten with the queen, so it's more than likely she had a nice set of gams. In fact, based on the most current forensic modeling, here's a scientific recreation of what Nefertari must have looked like: Editing to add: See? I'm a geek with a sense of humor. You can almost see her nefertitis, but you have to zoom in. Harte 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatetopa Posted December 10, 2016 #13 Share Posted December 10, 2016 Ancient advice, nevertheless still worth heeding, "Beware of Geeks bearing GIFs". 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatetopa Posted December 10, 2016 #14 Share Posted December 10, 2016 Its a pity the Otzi team had nobody as skilled as kmt_sesh working with them. We could have seen Otzi as he really looked. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted December 11, 2016 #15 Share Posted December 11, 2016 This reminds me of the time my great-aunt was half cut in the kitchen with her support hose rolled down around her ankles telling my mom, me and her sister, my grandma what sexy legs she had. Kmt-sesh them knees have seen better days but judging from your pic you guys look like a great couple. jmccr8 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaemwaset Posted January 13, 2017 #16 Share Posted January 13, 2017 Thanks for including the link to the scientific investigatory report, kmt_sesh. I enjoyed reading it. Though, there seems to be problems toward any current commitment to the Great Queen as the owner of these gams, especially with the chemical analysis of the embalming agents, also lack of uncontaminated Dna, and the spread of carbon dating results...most likely is the best we have at present I guess. Some of the arguments presented as to why certain results do not point to Nefertari or her corresponding era seem a little weak to me; overall I suppose the best current hypothesis is that it is indeed probably she, or rather, her knees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docyabut2 Posted January 14, 2017 #17 Share Posted January 14, 2017 (edited) Quote You`d think if it was really Nefertari `s body, robbers would have taken the legs to sell. Edited January 14, 2017 by docyabut2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaemwaset Posted January 14, 2017 #18 Share Posted January 14, 2017 (edited) I think the presence of the 18th d. faience knob with Ay's name on it somewhat interesting. The explanation in their primary hypothesis is that Nefertari most likely was descended from the 18th d. royal family; therefore this would have been part of an heirloom buried with her. But Ay's bloodline is problematic to say the least. In that light, why would this object be something to be kept and treasured, and buried with Rameses's Great Royal Wife? It seems so very curious. Edited January 14, 2017 by Khaemwaset changed curious to interesting because of duplication Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmt_sesh Posted January 14, 2017 Author #19 Share Posted January 14, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, Khaemwaset said: Thanks for including the link to the scientific investigatory report, kmt_sesh. I enjoyed reading it. Though, there seems to be problems toward any current commitment to the Great Queen as the owner of these gams, especially with the chemical analysis of the embalming agents, also lack of uncontaminated Dna, and the spread of carbon dating results...most likely is the best we have at present I guess. Some of the arguments presented as to why certain results do not point to Nefertari or her corresponding era seem a little weak to me; overall I suppose the best current hypothesis is that it is indeed probably she, or rather, her knees. If you're really Khaemwaset, I should think you'd recognize your own step-mother's knees. I mean, I know it's been awhile, but still... In all seriousness there is simply no way to know for certain if the remains are truly those of Nefertari's, but one of my chief interests in Egyptology is the application of modern science to ancient human remains. Researchers do what they can to arrive at conclusions, and in this situation I think they've arrived at a convincing argument that the remains are indeed those of the queen. As you noted from the report, the arguments when trying to make a case for some explanation against Nefertari are not exactly strong. On balance it seems convincing. Edited January 14, 2017 by kmt_sesh Clarification 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmt_sesh Posted January 14, 2017 Author #20 Share Posted January 14, 2017 3 hours ago, docyabut2 said: Quote You`d think if it was really Nefertari `s body, robbers would have taken the legs to sell. You're still quoting yourself. It's been months now. What's going wrong on your end? Anyway, do you mean ancient robbers or modern robbers? Ancient robbers didn't care about mummies because they were of no value. They destroyed mummies to get at the amulets wrapped inside the bandages—which is probably why poor Nefertari is nothing but a pair of fragmented knees now. Modern robbers would surely be more interested in selling mummies or parts thereof. I've no doubt there's an underground market for shady private collectors. But it would have to be a mummy of known distinction, and absolutely provable as such. These are just a pair of fragmented knees, so as the report in my OP shows, no one can be positive that the remains belong to Nefertari. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaemwaset Posted January 14, 2017 #21 Share Posted January 14, 2017 (edited) Yes, perhaps I am an imposter, or perhaps a later namesake. There were so many. But if memory serves, my stepmother's knees looked very different from these! Edited January 14, 2017 by Khaemwaset spellcheck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmt_sesh Posted January 14, 2017 Author #22 Share Posted January 14, 2017 19 minutes ago, Khaemwaset said: I think the presence of the 18th d. faience knob with Ay's name on it somewhat interesting. The explanation in their primary hypothesis is that Nefertari most likely was descended from the 18th d. royal family; therefore this would have been part of an heirloom buried with her. But Ay's bloodline is problematic to say the least. In that light, why would this object be something to be kept and treasured, and buried with Rameses's Great Royal Wife? It seems so very curious. In reading about this, I'm not 100% convinced the knob is original to QV66. (Only now have I realized I had typed "KV66" in my OP. Bonehead mistake.) It's certainly possible, of course, but other explanations are plausible. Look at the mess of things that had been washed into other tombs prior to excavations. But Ay's precise origins are pretty much as mysterious as Nefertari's, so in such matters there will always be a certain amount of Egyptological free-thinking. It's one of the pleasures of the field. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanslune Posted January 14, 2017 #23 Share Posted January 14, 2017 2 hours ago, Khaemwaset said: But if memory serves, my stepmother's knees looked very different from these! Hmmmmm I won't comment on your being an expert on your stepmother's knees. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khaemwaset Posted January 14, 2017 #24 Share Posted January 14, 2017 11 hours ago, kmt_sesh said: If you're really Khaemwaset, I should think you'd recognize your own step-mother's knees. I mean, I know it's been awhile, but still.. 8 hours ago, Hanslune said: Hmmmmm I won't comment on your being an expert on your stepmother's knees. Indeed. I would not claim such expertise myself, but kmt_sesh brought it up. She did wear those diaphanous gowns though, and....well...everybody looked, even us young-uns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanslune Posted January 14, 2017 #25 Share Posted January 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Khaemwaset said: Indeed. I would not claim such expertise myself, but kmt_sesh brought it up. She did wear those diaphanous gowns though, and....well...everybody looked, even us young-uns. LOL scandalous indeed! However as you brought up Kmt_Sesh name it explains all as he is always a bit of a pusillanimous caitiff in regards to the higher aspects of proper morality when he was a young-un in ancient Egypt.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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