Hanslune Posted December 10, 2016 #1 Share Posted December 10, 2016 I've put this up for discussion. Discusses using flotation to move the blocks up the pyramids side. One problem I see is having to take the limestone block from the quarry down to the river to start the process. I'm also concerned that the amount of flotation material is underestimated. Comments? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted December 10, 2016 #2 Share Posted December 10, 2016 I watched the video and it is an interesting theory and some parts may have been a part of the construction but have some doubts about whether the whole concept was used. One might wonder that if they didn't have to move blocks over land why do they have drawings of them being moved in such a fashion. jmccr8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanslune Posted December 10, 2016 Author #3 Share Posted December 10, 2016 (edited) 40 minutes ago, jmccr8 said: I watched the video and it is an interesting theory and some parts may have been a part of the construction but have some doubts about whether the whole concept was used. One might wonder that if they didn't have to move blocks over land why do they have drawings of them being moved in such a fashion. jmccr8 Yes there is that and what would happened if the jostling floating stones jammed up - how many times would they have had to dismantle the 'tube' to get to jams? Each one would be a major effort. The Specific Weight of air is 0.076 lbs per cubic foot. The Specific Weight of water is 62.4 lbs per cu. ft. So in fresh water you will get approximately 62 pounds of "flotation" with each cubic foot of air you provide.So with an average stone being 2.5 tons that would mean about 81 cubic feet of flotation or about 3 cubic yards of flotation needed with the weight of the skins and fashioners not considered. hmmmm Harte how practical is that? Edited December 10, 2016 by Hanslune 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted December 10, 2016 #4 Share Posted December 10, 2016 That's an industrious theory, works only if the blocks of masonry produced and used are of standardized dimensions or weights, which also implies that the plans of construction were also designed and planned as such. Parts of it might, and I stress that as an overreach ... might have been the basis of the theory but all in all its too much of the post industrial revolution or modern modes of engineering principles being forced into the speculative ~ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted December 10, 2016 #5 Share Posted December 10, 2016 The part that I thought might be workable was the shaping of the blocks at the quarry although I wonder how long a person can stand in water while working. jmccr8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted December 10, 2016 #6 Share Posted December 10, 2016 Soggy working conditions is bad news to masons and pullers under those conditions ... they'll be peeling off the skins off the soles and palms like soggy lettuce off a plate ... ~ 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanslune Posted December 10, 2016 Author #7 Share Posted December 10, 2016 1 hour ago, third_eye said: Soggy working conditions is bad news to masons and pullers under those conditions ... they'll be peeling off the skins off the soles and palms like soggy lettuce off a plate ... ~ That is another good point human's don't do well with continual immersion in water but can HSS adapt over time to such conditions? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docyabut2 Posted December 11, 2016 #8 Share Posted December 11, 2016 (edited) 4 hours ago, Hanslune said: I've put this up for discussion. Discusses using flotation to move the blocks up the pyramids side. One problem I see is having to take the limestone block from the quarry down to the river to start the process. I'm also concerned that the amount of flotation material is underestimated. Comments? Some how I don`nt think the blocks would have been put in that way, the blocks would have dissolved in water I believe the blocks were delivered there by boats. Edited December 11, 2016 by docyabut2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man by the Sea Posted December 11, 2016 #9 Share Posted December 11, 2016 A geyser might help... Just kidding. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likely Guy Posted December 11, 2016 #10 Share Posted December 11, 2016 12 minutes ago, Old Man by the Sea said: A geyser might help... Just kidding. Don't use the 'g' word lest you summon 'he that should not be mentioned' Welcome to UM, BTW. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Man by the Sea Posted December 11, 2016 #11 Share Posted December 11, 2016 43 minutes ago, Likely Guy said: Don't use the 'g' word lest you summon 'he that should not be mentioned' Welcome to UM, BTW. Thank you, i've been reading these forums for years, interesting stuff, including the posts by 'he that should not be mentioned'. Not that I believe it , just fun entertainment . Except the political section of course , I avoid that like the plague. Typing with my ps4 controller btw forgive any spelling. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanslune Posted December 11, 2016 Author #12 Share Posted December 11, 2016 57 minutes ago, Old Man by the Sea said: Thank you, i've been reading these forums for years, interesting stuff, including the posts by 'he that should not be mentioned'. Not that I believe it , just fun entertainment . Except the political section of course , I avoid that like the plague. Typing with my ps4 controller btw forgive any spelling. What we drew in a long time lurker? Welcome OMbtS. Yes he that should not be named is always about and like a Cthulhuian elder god he is always awaiting a mention of his name so that he may once again menace mankind, logical thinking, and the proper use of a keyboard. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likely Guy Posted December 11, 2016 #13 Share Posted December 11, 2016 6 hours ago, docyabut2 said: Some how I don`nt think the blocks would have been put in that way, the blocks would have dissolved in water I believe the blocks were delivered there by boats. While water is detrimental to limestone they wouldn't dissolve like a sugar cube in that short of a time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted December 11, 2016 #14 Share Posted December 11, 2016 Well there were those Sumerian fish dudes maybe they helped. https://www.google.ca/search?q=depictions+of+fish+men+in+sumeria&rlz=1C1CHZL_enCA701CA701&espv=2&biw=1045&bih=486&tbm=isch&imgil=a6-8JitNyJo1XM%3A%3Bz6EbJ94UKQcilM%3Bhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.pinterest.com%252Faldoeyzaguirre%252Fmesopotamia%252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=a6-8JitNyJo1XM%3A%2Cz6EbJ94UKQcilM%2C_&usg=__m3-ySWX0_azCRMwLgx4q9bK57x4%3D&ved=0ahUKEwiMn76yw-vQAhXCQCYKHUQQDjAQyjcILA&ei=AvRMWIyWMMKBmQHEoLiAAw#imgrc=Jkq3vFYiRBaCwM%3A jmccr8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted December 11, 2016 #15 Share Posted December 11, 2016 Dissolving stone ? .......... Enter Davidovitts . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted December 11, 2016 #16 Share Posted December 11, 2016 2 hours ago, back to earth said: Dissolving stone ? .......... Enter Davidovitts . Cops raiding a joint will dissolve a stone too. jmccr8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harte Posted December 11, 2016 #17 Share Posted December 11, 2016 13 hours ago, Hanslune said: I've put this up for discussion. Discusses using flotation to move the blocks up the pyramids side. One problem I see is having to take the limestone block from the quarry down to the river to start the process. I'm also concerned that the amount of flotation material is underestimated. Comments? Don't see the need for it. Harte 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHaYap Posted December 11, 2016 #18 Share Posted December 11, 2016 11 hours ago, Hanslune said: That is another good point human's don't do well with continual immersion in water but can HSS adapt over time to such conditions? depends on the activity and climate I guess, but most of all on the ingenuity of the HSS concerned ... if there is a need there is a way, but seeing that most of the gear required for working in humid hot and wet conditions requires knowledge of rubber or tar in some form or another I think that should be the first order of the question ... finding evidence that rubber was available and was used by the AE ... but then again it can't be any old latex ... it does require a lot of manipulating to get specialised equipment to function well in such a heavy industrious environment .... whatever the AE depended upon has to be not only reliable but also reliable for the long run ... any small accident or miscalculation has big consequences ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docyabut2 Posted December 13, 2016 #19 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Quote There is a water line half way up the pyramid, but then again how would they have mortared all those stones together with out it melting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatetopa Posted December 13, 2016 #20 Share Posted December 13, 2016 Nice theory. Flotation might be a good way to get blocks from the quarry to the site. Consider flotation, pretend each animal skin holds 4-5 cubic feet, that is quite a lot really, cow or donkey size, not sheep size. Now strap 20 of those to a block, roughly 4'x4'x5' of air bags. Its big. Also consider the number of animals, 20 animals per block makes for some pretty big herds to float several hundred or thousand blocks at a time. Did the Egyptians eat that much beef? The plastic tube in the video is air tight, the gates are modern plumbing valves - air tight. I am ok with a plaster and bitumen shaft, but consider the large wooden gates. Very difficult to make air tight. More gates really adds to the problem, more places to leak. Consider what happens at a leak. A small leak would be like a fire hose nozzle. A leak would cause erosion around the hole to make a bigger leak. Eventually all of the water above the leak would drain out. Sea level air pressure is about 15psi. A 33 foot water column is equivalent. This is the glaring problem with the scale model, the pressures are not to scale. Gates at the bottom of a 100 foot shaft would have to be massive. You would be fighting a force of around 50 psi. to slide the gate open. A 5'x10' gate would be sealed with about 360,000 pounds of water pressing it into its seal. That takes more than a couple of oxen to open up. Closing would be a problem with sliding gates as well. Not insurmountable, but probably not as modeled. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Likely Guy Posted December 13, 2016 #21 Share Posted December 13, 2016 4 hours ago, docyabut2 said: There is a water line half way up the pyramid, but then again how would they have mortared all those stones together with out it melting? There's a 'water line' halfway up the Washington Monument. Except that it's just granite from a different quarry. Limestone is damaged by water over hundreds, thousands of years but hey, it's Egypt! A wet block of limestone won't dissolve in a few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanslune Posted December 13, 2016 Author #22 Share Posted December 13, 2016 6 hours ago, docyabut2 said: There is a water line half way up the pyramid, but then again how would they have mortared all those stones together with out it melting? Say what? Whatja talking about Docyabut2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted December 13, 2016 #23 Share Posted December 13, 2016 18 hours ago, docyabut2 said: There is a water line half way up the pyramid, but then again how would they have mortared all those stones together with out it melting? melting stone ! Enter ..... ummmm ..... Puma Punka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted December 13, 2016 #24 Share Posted December 13, 2016 (edited) 12 hours ago, Hanslune said: Say what? Whatja talking about Docyabut2? Honeycomb , I think . One bit if water and .... gone ! Looks like stone, natural, or you can carve it, like a block of stone . make a pyramid out of it ..... use it for ;landslides' in cowboy films ( an uncle of mine made a mint out of it years back ...... making it for cowboy film props ) . Edited December 13, 2016 by back to earth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenemet Posted December 14, 2016 #25 Share Posted December 14, 2016 On 12/10/2016 at 2:16 PM, Hanslune said: I've put this up for discussion. Discusses using flotation to move the blocks up the pyramids side. One problem I see is having to take the limestone block from the quarry down to the river to start the process. I'm also concerned that the amount of flotation material is underestimated. Comments? We're talking about the Egyptians, right? The ones who couldn't construct a solid dam? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sadd_el-Kafara And why did they use it only for the Great Pyramid and not for everything else they built... because they were building lots of other monuments, including the Red Pyramid, Bent Pyramid, other pyramids at Giza, and Djedefre's pyramid (now in ruins), etc, etc? Did they use it only for the GP and after that the Great Amnesiac Field hit and they forgot how to use it? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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