Angela Merkel is destroying Europe

[Space Commander Travis]

2 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Actually the UK is still an empire. England, Scotland, Wales and NI. 

I'm afraid once again you're showing a lack of knowledge. Nevertheless, I would like nothing more than to wish you a happy new Year and everyone who knows you.

[Unusual Tournament]

2 hours ago, Grand Moff Tarkin said:

I'm afraid once again you're showing a lack of knowledge. Nevertheless, I would like nothing more than to wish you a happy new Year and everyone who knows you.

...you're like the Pope of this forum dispensing your message of cheer and good will. If you didn't precede your lovely message with an insult i would have almost believed you. 

[Space Commander Travis]

Going back to the subject of Frau Merkel, here she is paying her tribute to the outgoing Pres.

[kartikg]

whatever is happening in Syria et all is not due to natural calamity nor due to some external factors at least when it started, the situation is entirely the creation of their own, they choose civil war and having a open door policy for such people is unwise. 

[Space Commander Travis]

13 minutes ago, kartikg said:

whatever is happening in Syria et all is not due to natural calamity nor due to some external factors at least when it started, the situation is entirely the creation of their own, they choose civil war and having a open door policy for such people is unwise. 

well, they may well have had justified grievances about Assad, but it was external forces, most notably in the shape of Certain Intelligence Agencies, that whipped it up into war, without a doubt, by arming and moving in their "Rebels", many of whom weren't even Syrian at all,. 

[hetrodoxly]

On 01/01/2017 at 4:46 AM, Captain Risky said:

Actually the UK is still an empire. England, Scotland, Wales and NI. 

Scotland approached England with the idea of forming a union, England could see the mutual benefit and agreed Ireland sent an open letter complaining 'why' they'd not been invited to join the Union, how is that an Empire?

[Unusual Tournament]

15 hours ago, hetrodoxly said:

Scotland approached England with the idea of forming a union, England could see the mutual benefit and agreed Ireland sent an open letter complaining 'why' they'd not been invited to join the Union, how is that an Empire?

Whether the United Kingdom is a product of choice or conquest really makes no difference. It's still a union of different country's and peoples. It's empire/kingdom/union.

[Space Commander Travis]

1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

Whether the United Kingdom is a product of choice or conquest really makes no difference. It's still a union of different country's and peoples. It's empire/kingdom/union.

See, this is where you get confused, and which spreads doubts about the extent or reliability of your knowledge to comment on matters in faraway countries.  A Kingdom is not the same as an Empire, for a start. You're just using words meaning different things as if they're interchangeable. 

[Unusual Tournament]

1 hour ago, Grand Moff Tarkin said:

See, this is where you get confused, and which spreads doubts about the extent or reliability of your knowledge to comment on matters in faraway countries.  A Kingdom is not the same as an Empire, for a start. You're just using words meaning different things as if they're interchangeable. 

Kingdom...lol

Buddy, 1000 years of "kingdom" still hasn't extinguished the nationalistic desires of Scotland, Northern Ireland or Wales. You tell them that they're not an appendage of England. 

[hetrodoxly]

2 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Kingdom...lol

Buddy, 1000 years of "kingdom" still hasn't extinguished the nationalistic desires of Scotland, Northern Ireland or Wales. You tell them that they're not an appendage of England. 

No one stops them from leaving, and why do you dismiss England from leaving the union?

[LV-426]

4 hours ago, Grand Moff Tarkin said:

See, this is where you get confused, and which spreads doubts about the extent or reliability of your knowledge to comment on matters in faraway countries.  A Kingdom is not the same as an Empire, for a start. You're just using words meaning different things as if they're interchangeable. 

You're wasting your time on our Aussie pal.

With his skewed view of Britain, or more specifically England, he probably thinks this was a photo of Brexit voters leaving the polling stations last year...

Or maybe this is the contemporary version (thanks google!)...

[Setton]

14 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Kingdom...lol

Buddy, 1000 years of "kingdom" still hasn't extinguished the nationalistic desires of Scotland, Northern Ireland or Wales. You tell them that they're not an appendage of England. 

I really want to be able to back you up regarding brexit as a backwards step but posting this kind of stuff doesn't make it easy.

1000 years... How do you figure that? Scotland and England were united by a coincidence of inheritance and mutual choice in 1707. Ireland officially joined in 1801. The nearest to your number is Wales, conquered in the 13th century.

The 'nationalistic desires', as you call them, of these countries are not as significant as you seem to believe.

Wales - own assembly and significant devolved power. No real independence movement.

Scotland - own parliament and devolved power. Specifically voted not to leave the UK.

Northern Ireland - own assembly and devolved power. Some nationalist sentiment but nothing significant in nearly 20 years.

In fact, the only part of the UK not to benefit from devolved power is England.

[ExpandMyMind]

16 minutes ago, Setton said:

I really want to be able to back you up regarding brexit as a backwards step but posting this kind of stuff doesn't make it easy.

1000 years... How do you figure that? Scotland and England were united by a coincidence of inheritance and mutual choice in 1707. Ireland officially joined in 1801. The nearest to your number is Wales, conquered in the 13th century.

The 'nationalistic desires', as you call them, of these countries are not as significant as you seem to believe.

Wales - own assembly and significant devolved power. No real independence movement.

Scotland - own parliament and devolved power. Specifically voted not to leave the UK.

Northern Ireland - own assembly and devolved power. Some nationalist sentiment but nothing significant in nearly 20 years.

In fact, the only part of the UK not to benefit from devolved power is England.

In fairness I can see the Scottish voting again in a few years and leaving the UK. National sentiment is changing and it's very likely that with those too young to vote last time being given a voice we may see a different result. The same goes for NI, though likely on a different timescale.

[Unusual Tournament]

12 hours ago, hetrodoxly said:

No one stops them from leaving, and why do you dismiss England from leaving the union?

Guess not. But claiming that the UK is greater than the sum total of its constituent states is not right.   

[Unusual Tournament]

36 minutes ago, Setton said:

I really want to be able to back you up regarding brexit as a backwards step but posting this kind of stuff doesn't make it easy.

1000 years... How do you figure that? Scotland and England were united by a coincidence of inheritance and mutual choice in 1707. Ireland officially joined in 1801. The nearest to your number is Wales, conquered in the 13th century.

The 'nationalistic desires', as you call them, of these countries are not as significant as you seem to believe.

Wales - own assembly and significant devolved power. No real independence movement.

Scotland - own parliament and devolved power. Specifically voted not to leave the UK.

Northern Ireland - own assembly and devolved power. Some nationalist sentiment but nothing significant in nearly 20 years.

In fact, the only part of the UK not to benefit from devolved power is England.

Well for someone that wants to back me up you've been quiet. The point I was making is that there has been war and division between England and the rest of the UK for over a 1000 years. Same in France. Basques, Bretons and Normans. Give them a chance to vote and they'll probably go there own way.

in fact the umbrella that the EU provides its member nations discards the need for regional independence. Another negative to Brexit that no one wants to talk about.

[Unusual Tournament]

30 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

In fairness I can see the Scottish voting again in a few years and leaving the UK. National sentiment is changing and it's very likely that with those too young to vote last time being given a voice we may see a different result. The same goes for NI, though likely on a different timescale.

...and in the same way that the brexiteers are moaning that the EU is making the Brexit process insufferable I bet the English establishment will make it just as difficult for Scotland, NI or even Wales to leave. Just like they did during the last referendum with their effective scare campaign. 

With Scotlands pro EU support I think another referendum will split the U.K.

[Space Commander Travis]

7 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

The point I was making is that there has been war and division between England and the rest of the UK for over a 1000 years.

Taft's the point you were making? There was often war between England and Scotland before the Union, certainly, but the only time since then was the old and Young Pretenders' adventures in 1715 and 1745, and that was from outside (i.e. France), rather than a spontaneous uprising by the Scots. Actually what you're saying is quite true, that the Scots and Basques and Bretons and Catalans and you name it are certainly becoming more active in agitating for independence, but all that would just weaken the EU, as even if all these independence movements wanted to stay part of the Greater European Empire, it could only weaken the political and would-be military strength of the EU, as it would surely be impossible to expect unity from all of them on any issue and what remained of France or Spain or wherever would be considerably weakened, so the chances of the EU becoming a global econimic or military power would be reduced greatly. So it's something to be welcomed, naturally! 

You seem to be trying to have it both ways; condemning the UK (or rather England) as a brutal empire that tramples on the faces of the oppressed Scots and Welsh, when that's what the EU is already effectively being, certainly when it comes to countries like Greece and Portugal and what have you.

[Space Commander Travis]

7 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

...and in the same way that the brexiteers are moaning that the EU is making the Brexit process insufferable I bet the English establishment will make it just as difficult for Scotland, NI or even Wales to leave. Just like they did during the last referendum with their effective scare campaign. 

With Scotlands pro EU support I think another referendum will split the U.K.

So the Cameron regime's scare campaign about Brexit was quite correct and accurate, but the scare campaign to scare the Scots to sty in the UK was underhand and reprehensible? 

[Unusual Tournament]

4 hours ago, Grand Moff Tarkin said:

Taft's the point you were making? There was often war between England and Scotland before the Union, certainly, but the only time since then was the old and Young Pretenders' adventures in 1715 and 1745, and that was from outside (i.e. France), rather than a spontaneous uprising by the Scots. Actually what you're saying is quite true, that the Scots and Basques and Bretons and Catalans and you name it are certainly becoming more active in agitating for independence, but all that would just weaken the EU, as even if all these independence movements wanted to stay part of the Greater European Empire, it could only weaken the political and would-be military strength of the EU, as it would surely be impossible to expect unity from all of them on any issue and what remained of France or Spain or wherever would be considerably weakened, so the chances of the EU becoming a global econimic or military power would be reduced greatly. So it's something to be welcomed, naturally! 

Bolded: I would think that regionalisation would better serve the EU than the current nations that make it up. A smaller voice and direct indebtedness to the EU parliament would only promote regions above the interests of their country's and give them direct representation. Salami tactics... its easier to eat a whole salami shaved into smaller pieces over a longer time than in one sitting and whole. Local regional elected members wouldn't have to fight with the federal government for funds or influence in decision making. Easier integration would make a federal structure more viable. Maybe that's what spooked the UK (England). ...why give up its little empire to Brussels. Strange since the UK is dependent on unity if it leaves BUT leaving could be the catalyst for Scotland etc to want to rejoin the EU on their own terms as an independent nation. So there really is no reason to leave the EU if Scotland, NI and Wales leave. Which is more probable if the UK leaves Europe. 

Do you get what I'm saying?

  

Edited January 4, 2017 by Captain Risky

[itsnotoutthere]

On 1/2/2017 at 0:43 PM, kartikg said:

whatever is happening in Syria et all is not due to natural calamity nor due to some external factors at least when it started, the situation is entirely the creation of their own, they choose civil war and having a open door policy for such people is unwise. 

The Truth About the War in Syria  :-

 

[Unusual Tournament]

3 hours ago, Grand Moff Tarkin said:

You seem to be trying to have it both ways; condemning the UK (or rather England) as a brutal empire that tramples on the faces of the oppressed Scots and Welsh, when that's what the EU is already effectively being, certainly when it comes to countries like Greece and Portugal and what have you.

I don't remember "condemning" the UK as brutal. Cause i would be a hypocrite by defending the EU. What Im condemning is the desperate attempt by the UK to stall change using the emblems of empire by criticising another empire that the UK is a stakeholder in. Its a desperate attempt to forestall the inevitable. There is no escape from change other than the complete collapse of the EU. And that won't happen. Brexit is a case of damned if you do damned if you don't leave. Unless of course Britain attempts to reactivate the British empire into a Anglo-American alliance your fate is sealed. And why would the Americans share anything? You're just exchanging one master that you have a say in for another that you don't. 

[itsnotoutthere]

1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

I don't remember "condemning" the UK as brutal. Cause i would be a hypocrite by defending the EU. What Im condemning is the desperate attempt by the UK to stall change using the emblems of empire by criticising another empire that the UK is a stakeholder in. Its a desperate attempt to forestall the inevitable. There is no escape from change other than the complete collapse of the EU. And that won't happen. Brexit is a case of damned if you do damned if you don't leave. Unless of course Britain attempts to reactivate the British empire into a Anglo-American alliance your fate is sealed. And why would the Americans share anything? You're just exchanging one master that you have a say in for another that you don't. 

Ya think?

I think you'll find that the remainers, the left wing liberals (BBC & Guardian included), Brussels & a handfull of european leaders are preying that the UK will fail, because if we are successful after leaving the E.U. what do you think all those southern european countries, some with 25% unemployment - Spain, Portugal, Italy & Greece, will be thinking? and if their political leaders aren't thinking it, their voting public (including their unemployed youth) will be.

Edited January 4, 2017 by itsnotoutthere

[Unusual Tournament]

20 minutes ago, itsnotoutthere said:

Ya think?

I think you'll find that the remainers, the left wing liberals (BBC & Guardian included), Brussels & a handfull of european leaders are preying that the UK will fail, because if we are successful after leaving the E.U. what do you think all those southern european countries, some with 25% unemployment - Spain, Portugal, Italy & Greece, will be thinking? and if their political leaders aren't thinking it, their voting public (including their unemployed youth) will be.

Well you could be right that certain pro-EU people and institutions want brexit to fail but not for the reason you pointed out, rather cause they don't like the direction the UK is going in. But speaking animosity. It would seem that the entire brexit premise is based on the EU failing. Brexiteers have been playing cassandra alot more than the remainers. What do you say to that?

[itsnotoutthere]

1 hour ago, Captain Risky said:

Well you could be right that certain pro-EU people and institutions want brexit to fail but not for the reason you pointed out, rather cause they don't like the direction the UK is going in. But speaking animosity. It would seem that the entire brexit premise is based on the EU failing. Brexiteers have been playing cassandra alot more than the remainers. What do you say to that?

Wrong.

Six months ago the British people were asked a simple question, a question by the way, that the others political parties had previously promised to ask us, but reneged on. The question was,

Do you want to remain a member of the E.U. (and all the comes with it e.g. closer political union,

open borders, more centralized government, possible fiscal union (the euro) a european army & ultimately, a federal europe,)

Or alternatively do you think Britain would be better out of it?

There was a campaign for many months leading up to the vote, to the point where you couldn't pick up a news paper or switch on the t.v. without somebody telling you how important it was that you should vote. The people cast their votes in their millions (very high turn out) and even the final date was extended to allow more people to vote. The people voted to leave. In the lead up to the vote lies were bandied about on both sides as it always is during elections. If you're daft enough to fall for those lies then that is your problem. When the remain camp lied that there would be an emergency budget if we voted leave, I didn't believe them, likewise when the leave camp said they'd spend £350 on the NHS if we left I didn't believe them either. Ultimately I and i'm sure the vast majority of the population made their decision on 40 years experience of already being in the E.U. and seeing which way it was heading. And if anything at all tipped the balance it was probably that moment of madness by Heir Merkel.

After that big campaign leading up to the vote (remember, the remain side had £10 million of tax payers money to play with) I have no time for all those idiots that couldn't be bothered to vote & are now whining because it didn't go their way.

Edited January 4, 2017 by itsnotoutthere

[Space Commander Travis]

3 hours ago, Captain Risky said:

Brexiteers have been playing cassandra alot more than the remainers. What do you say to that?

well, fairly obviously surely. If someone wants to persuade everyone that the EU is brilliant and everyone should vote to stay in it, they're not likely to suggest that it might go ********** by the end of the year, are they.