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docyabut2

Russia

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We  were allies  in  world war 2  and after a cold war both understood there are no winners in a nuclear war  .so why can`nt we be friends  in this war on  Islamic terrorism?  

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We could ... we should be ..... its complicated .

 

We weren't friends with some people  but then they made friends with people we were friends with and they wanted us to like their friends too.  So we made friends with them but got unfriendly with the original friends but then the new friends did bad things. but at the same time, did bad things to another people we were not friends with because they did bad things  too.  Then we wanted stuff off other people and they didnt like all three of the others ...... and it goes on ...look , just help the Kurds thats the simplest  ....   but if we help the Kurds we will make others angry that took their land, and we need them as they are in the house next door to the really bad neighbours and we want them to deal with that ..... except everyone else on the other side that wanted to run away from this madness climbed the fence and are now swarming down the street .  

 

Syria and Russia have a war against terrorists ... we could just join in with them ... but they do things we dont like, like bomb people with drones and destroy cities and blow things up ......    but we do that too .....   but when we do it it isnt terrorism .  

 

Get all that ? 

 

 

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leave_vladimir_alone.jpg

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Russkies recognized ISIS as terrorists only in 2015. That gives some insight.

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1 hour ago, bmk1245 said:

Russkies recognized ISIS as terrorists only in 2015. That gives some insight.

 

Sources please. You cant just make a statement like that and offer no backup

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Russia is at war with isis, then u have obama saying there good people lol

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2 minutes ago, coolguy said:

Russia is at war with isis, then u have obama saying there good people lol

"Sources please. You cant just make a statement like that and offer no backup " - Seeder, a few moments ago.

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57 minutes ago, Likely Guy said:

"Sources please. You cant just make a statement like that and offer no backup " - Seeder, a few moments ago.

Prove that Seeder said that!

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4 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

We  were allies  in  world war 2  and after a cold war both understood there are no winners in a nuclear war  .so why can`nt we be friends  in this war on  Islamic terrorism? 

Depends on how Putin\Russia thinks much about China and Iran. If Putin\Russia or more loyal to those countries then us and they don't like the way Trump deals with China or Iran, we may get the cold shoulder from them and then it will business as usual with Putin\Russia being public enemy number whatever on our list again.
 

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Russians might look like us but they are not us. They have a very distinct and unique cultural identity and a way of seeing the world through the lens of their own historical experience. America needs to learn to accept Russians for what they are and not be judgmental because they are not what we think they should be.

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Ultimately, the old saying holds true through the ages.  Countries have interests, not friends.  At times our interests will coincide but usually, they won't. The most important aspect of our relationship is clear communication of those critical interests.  This is why Obama's presidency has been so dangerous.  The transition to Trump should help but we're in for a bumpy ride while Putin assesses and tests Trump's strength.  

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6 hours ago, seeder said:

 

Sources please. You cant just make a statement like that and offer no backup

From official FSB website, #22 (its in Russian, but google's translator will do the job): Feb 13, 2015.

If ISIS wouldn't threaten Assad, I'm more than convinced that ISIS wouldn't be terrorists in Russian eyes to this day (like Hamas, Hezbollah)...

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IMO Russia under Vlad Putin is out for Vlad Putin and Russia (in that order). The US should be very wary of Russia, they are not 'our friends' and we need to keep that in mind. That said, we should still be open to making deals with them...but we need to be very cautious and canny. Trump saying that Putin is a 'smart man' is quite accurate, but notice Trump did not say he believed Putin's claims or thought Putin was a 'trustworthy man'.

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One does not gain the trust of a bear by treating it like a wolf. The evil some men do is quite sufficient; don't make demons of them, as well. Putin has more in common with Khrushchev than with Ivan the Terrible.

Sun Tzu: " Know your enemy and know yourself and you will always be victorious."

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14 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

We  were allies  in  world war 2  and after a cold war both understood there are no winners in a nuclear war  .so why can`nt we be friends  in this war on  Islamic terrorism?  

Because neither country is interested in what's best for the other country.  During WWII, we were only "friends" because the Nazis turned on the Soviets--those two were friends at the beginning.  We don't have to be friends in the war against radical islamists, we don't have to like each other at all.  All that has to be done is enough cooperation to eradicate the threat.  After that, we go back to business as usual.

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Russia and the US have always been rivals and will always be.  I don't think we will ever be friends.  So trust will constantly have to be earned.  But we can respect each other.  That is perhaps more important than being friends.  I believe that Putin initially gave Obama the benefit of the doubt, until he saw what a moron he was.  And since then, Putin has had no respect for Obama, and has been acting accordingly.  Barack "Red Line" Obama has shown to be a weak President.  Trump is different.  His character already commands respect even before hitting the ground.  I think this will only build between Putin and Trump.  We might see some tit-for-tat early on but I think we will eventually see a strong relationship solidifying keeping true to each nation’s interest.  If this does happen, I would say that allies and enemies of both need to worry.

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Of course Putin is for Russia and himself and is only going to have their best interest in mind.  Hopefully this time around we will have a president that will put us first and if being president helps him when he leaves office so be it.  Still we should be able to form enough of a friendship to fight ISIS.  It doesn't take blind trust to work together, we do it on the space station.  Who knows somewhere down the road Russia may become a friend.  Probably not under Putin but someday.

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I'm hoping we can become friends with Russia.

It's not 1962.

Plus, if it p***es off Obama that makes it even better.

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Simple. The US is fighting DAESH. Russia is fighting all enemies of the Syrian government which includes the Kurds and other moderates.

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That's a good question. We should improve our relationship with them. We both face threats in Chinese communism and "Muslim" terrorism. We need to be allies in varied confrontations with those two foes. We also owe it to the next generation to reject both cold wars and hot wars. We have to get past imperialist interventionist policies by respecting sovereign states. Neither country has clean hands in that category, so let's not lie to ourselves. Let's maintain the best military while establishing the best diplomacy. 

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We don't have to be friends, but we will always be neighbors on the same planet.  We can model our relationship on the ones we have with our neighbors on the same street.  I don't know most of my neighbors, but I wave when they drive past.  I'm cordial if we meet.  They take care of their place and I take care of mine.  This results in mutual respect.  As long as we don't intrude on one another we get along fine.  I'm sure we would cooperate in an emergency.  If our relationship with the Russians is no better or worse than this that is all we need to hope for.  Right now Obama is trying to stir up trouble but Putin is gracious enough to understand that even a good family can have a brat of a child, and he'll be leaving soon.  The adults can then get back to normal.

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2 hours ago, Thanato said:

Simple. The US is fighting DAESH. Russia is fighting all enemies of the Syrian government which includes the Kurds and other moderates.

The US is fighting Assad while acting as ISIS's air force. 

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The Russians have done hostile things towards our diplomats.  I don't know if this is just typical Russia or because they can't stand Obama.  Lets just approach friendship with them with caution but I still think we should try to work together.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-07-07/russian-tv-shows-u-s-diplomat-decked-by-embassy-policeman

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, Farmer77 said:

The US is fighting Assad while acting as ISIS's air force. 

Farmer, you incredible I#%&t, we're bombing the crap out of Daesh. Exactly how is that "acting as their air force"? Why do you say such stupid things?

Edited by Hammerclaw
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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Farmer, you incredible I#%&t, we're bombing the crap out of Daesh. Exactly how is that "acting as their air force"? Why do you say such stupid things?

No we're really not "bombing the crap" out of ISI. How can you say that with a straight face after seeing whats happening over there? We were "fighting" ISIS in syria since 2013 with zero success. Then Russia shows up in 2015 and makes immense strides against them while we have simply armed and supplied air cover for them.

Dont you remember Mccains meltdown when Russia began fighting ISIS in Syria? He's p***ed they're screwing up his game. And why do you think Israel hasnt had an ISIS problem? The  Israeli State Intelligence Service  probably has something to do with that. 

SO here we go just a quick primer on the situation. 

 

Reality Check: Proof U.S. Government Wanted ISIS To Emerge In Syria

Seven pages of a secret Pentagon document were leaked earlier this year. The report is from 2012 and specifically, it explains the dangers of what the U.S. government is doing in Syria at the time. Remember, that in 2012.

ISIS, as we know them today, did not exist then.

Page 3 of those leaked pages state three facts about the situation in Syria.

a) Internally, events are taking a clear sectarian direction
B)The Salafist, the Muslim Brotherhood and AQI (Al Qaeda in Iraq) are the major forces driving the insurgency in Syria.
c) The West, Gulf Countries and Turkey support the opposition, while Russia, China and Iran support the regime.

ISIS Overruns Syrian Army Base After US Bombings Here is a clear example of collusion between ISIS and the US. Sure it could have been an accident that the US bombed the Syrian troops. It also could have been coincidence that ISIS fighters were positioned and prepared for an assault immediately after the bombing. 

Amnesty report: ISIS armed with U.S. weapons

PHOTOS: US Plane Drops Weapons for ISIS Militants in Iraq Noone denies the US is arming ISIS. Somehow everyone in America has been convinced that our government is just a dumb blonde...oops we accidentally dropped arms to isis...oops we accidentally armed moderates who actually are ISIS 

Oh and gotta love Mccain hanging with terrorists in Syria  ANGRY MCCAIN ADMITS MEETING WITH ISIS, SCOLDS RAND PAUL FOR NOT KNOWING TERRORISTS

So based on the information available we know that the US is OK with arming and working with terrorists, we know the US wanted ISIS or some other islamic caliphate to form , we know that the US is arming ISIS and we know that they have a common enemy in Assad. 

Paradigm shifts are hard to handle , I get that. I used to be naive to the way the world actually works too but just because your worldview is rapidly being shown to be false in the information age doesnt mean you have to be mean and call people names. 

 

Edited by Farmer77
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