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Newton Believed a Comet Caused Noah's Flood


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Does it also show Antarctica without the ice   ( and it looks nothing like the modern constructions of Antarctica without the ice )  ? 

 

Which  by the way last happened 35 million years ago  ... so Jo-rel's ' ignorant bunch of hunter gatherers.'  who he seems to be claiming mapped it and it ended up as the 1531: The Oronteus Finaeus map  that  "shows Antarctica before it was “discovered” and how it looked ice-free. "     and must have also sailed there  and had drawing and mapping skills ....   pre 35m ya ......   :)   

 

Makes a kangaroo hopping to the Middle East a little more feasible . 

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If you want to know what it was like to exerience "Noahs" flood (or, rather, the event on which it was based" head to the Texas coast ...

And tell me if this seems familiar ....

The face of the weather changed. Ishkur

bellowed from the clouds. When
Ziusudra heard this noise, bitumen was brought to him, and he sealed up the
door with it. While he was closing the door, Ishkur kept bellowing from the
clouds, the winds were raging even as he went up and cut through the ropes, he
released the boat. Anzu was tearing at the sky with his talons, the bolt of Abzu
broke open and the Flood came out
.

The Flood went against the people like an army. No one could see anyone else
clearly, none of them could be recognized in the catastrophe.
The Flood roared like a bull, like a wild ass screaming the winds howled. The darkness was total,
there was no sun. The bodies of man and the children of the gods floated on the
surface like fat white sheep, their corpses pushed by the Flood into heaps like
piles of dead dragonflies in the marsh. The earth was inundated with the power
and noise of the Flood.

 



http://www.markfoster.net/rn/texts/the_atra_hasis.pdf

Thunder, lightning, hurricane winds, darkness and a tidal surge.

Oddly though, no mention of rain .....

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On 8/20/2017 at 11:07 AM, Scudbuster said:

 

Oh yea, there have been floods all over the place through the millennia. And I'd say you are being overly kind in calling the whole story bogus. I think it's more like the biggest whopper/fairy tale/hoax/silly campfire story of all time....and it still exists today due to the gullibility of many, many,  people.

You have to keep in mind though that while some of the stories in the Bible might be bogus... there is no doubt shreds of Truth lie somewhete there in none the less. The reason is because stories were told from generation to generation handed down and as such with each telling of the story the story changed a little bit. We have stories of Atlantis and a huge flood. There was a point in time and we don't really know when that was when The Fountains of the deep so to speak we're broken open and massive flooding happened and the continents split apart ...as a result stories, stories, stories. Then again that might have happened long before man even walked the Earth. What we do know is that mankind has from its conception attempted to put things into a perspective it could understand.

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19 hours ago, Scudbuster said:

Yes, very good thoughts and perspective on your part, thank you.

Where art thou has Joe-el gone though...? He seems to have completely disappeared from the discussion. I'm thinking the recently posted YouTube videos with some different viewpoints & opinions has scared him off.... 

 

 

Not in the least, there isn't a vídeo I haven't seen on this issue as well as the so called propaganda of atheists trying to make themselves as reasonable and the rest of us as having some kind of mental problems. Sad that believers could fall so far.

That being said they can certainly believe whatever they want, just as those who follow their ideas can do the same. Each person is only really accountable to their own conscience. I for one continue to believe the bible is in fact the word of God.

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So, this is your answer to all of the above exposing of your 'theories'   ?

You try to prove your beliefs with science, went to a silly and ridiculous level of 'science'  and double speak,  failed , and now you just come back and think you can smear all that over with ;    " I for one continue to believe the bible is in fact the word of God. "   ?

:D 

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2 hours ago, back to earth said:

So, this is your answer to all of the above exposing of your 'theories'   ?

You try to prove your beliefs with science, went to a silly and ridiculous level of 'science'  and double speak,  failed , and now you just come back and think you can smear all that over with ;    " I for one continue to believe the bible is in fact the word of God. "   ?

:D 

Nope, just ignoring your wackiness....

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4 hours ago, Jor-el said:

Not in the least, there isn't a vídeo I haven't seen on this issue

And yet you still somehow maintain this deep-rooted belief in your deity. I'm all for it, but if you've seen all of there is to see on this issue, I don't understand as to how you can maintain those beliefs that you hold as being true.

I'm genuinely curious--do you honestly still believe that The Great Flood happened as it is indicated in the Bible (i.e. wiping out mankind, flooding the "earth" [doesn't specify Middle East])? Do you honestly believe that God actually gave Noah these instructions (who rounded up 8 unskilled people to care for the ship and all of the animals) to build the ark? After seeing all of the videos (some of them [what I have seen] making some excellent points that can hardly be reasonably refuted), I just can't see why you would still maintain a belief in these silly stories.

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as well as the so called propaganda of atheists trying to make themselves as reasonable and the rest of us as having some kind of mental problems.

What propaganda are you speaking of? Can you give me some examples?

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Sad that believers could fall so far.

As far as I am aware, atheism doesn't involve belief... 

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That being said they can certainly believe whatever they want, just as those who follow their ideas can do the same.

Atheist = lack of a belief in a god or gods...

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Each person is only really accountable to their own conscience. I for one continue to believe the bible is in fact the word of God.

The only thing that we have concrete evidence for is that the Bible is the words of men, who claim to have had visions and messages delivered to them by God. There is no concrete evidence that the Bible is the word of God... it is blind belief; faith.

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13 hours ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

And yet you still somehow maintain this deep-rooted belief in your deity. I'm all for it, but if you've seen all of there is to see on this issue, I don't understand as to how you can maintain those beliefs that you hold as being true.

Simple, most of those counters start off with the incorrect assumptions right from the start. Basically there are those of us who accept that reality is not what it appears to be, and then there are others who have fallen hook, line and sinker to the belief that what they see is all there is.

When those opposing assumptions follow through on their logic and the data available, they get radically differing results.

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I'm genuinely curious--do you honestly still believe that The Great Flood happened as it is indicated in the Bible (i.e. wiping out mankind, flooding the "earth" [doesn't specify Middle East])? Do you honestly believe that God actually gave Noah these instructions (who rounded up 8 unskilled people to care for the ship and all of the animals) to build the ark? After seeing all of the videos (some of them [what I have seen] making some excellent points that can hardly be reasonably refuted), I just can't see why you would still maintain a belief in these silly stories.

Yes I do believe mankind was essentially wiped out by the flood event, which was a natural phenomenon brought about by multiple oceanic comet strikes around the globe. Most low lying areas around the globe were flooded by multiple mega tsunamis on one hand and a major climatic shift into a global mini ice age that wiped out any other survivors except those that were prepared for it beforehand. 99% of the people lived in valleys, plains and the shores of the worlds oceans. Any survivors would have died as the result of the secondary effects, which would have caused crop failures along with human and animal starvation. Storms that would last for months and years at a time, temperature drops that would kill most living things that survived.

Essentially humanity was wiped out except for a very few individual groups of the hardiest survivors. The bible tells us the story from the perspective of one such group, who were prepared and forewarned.

In essence the story is not so much about the survival of a few people, but the utter destruction of the society that existed before that event. Some label that society as the antediluvians, others call them Atlantis, Mu and many other names, but all are merely dim remembrances of a time before the flood. An advanced worldwide ocean faring society, where most of the so called civilizations of antiquity got their laws, religion, architecture and astronomy, of which many reminders are still to be found all over the world.

Most peoples problems with the bible stem from the fact that they can't accept that it is somehow speaking of true events because that flies in the face of their comfort zones. Most people are simply unprepared to face such major changes in their worldviews. Atheists most of all.

Your comment about 8 unskilled people demonstrates this quite clearly. They probably had more skills in areas that you would be ignorant of than you can give them credit for. They were members of that previous society, they weren't unschooled, unskilled and ignorant, but convention forbids you to accept that as simply too unbelievable which doesn't surprise me in the least. After all you are simply parroting what the "experts" have to say.

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What propaganda are you speaking of? Can you give me some examples?

Like I said, we are talking of two opposing and completely antagonistic views of the world, there is no middle ground for them to meet. One is completely materialistic and cannot admit to anything else, the other is spiritualistic and cannot accept the materialistic view as anything but self annihilation.

When you listen to one side you have to exclude the other, that is the basis of propaganda.

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As far as I am aware, atheism doesn't involve belief... 

Atheist = lack of a belief in a god or gods...

Was it not mentioned that the people in the videos were once Christian believers who lost their faith in God and the bible? That is the fall I mentioned.

Atheism contrary to what most people defend really does involve belief. It is the belief that they are right and the believers are wrong. The moment they make a movement of something like atheism, it involves belief. It may be based on the assumptions that they are dealing with reality and facts whereas their opponents are dealing with tradition, ignorance and superstition, but it still stems from belief, whether you and they accept that or not doesn't change the equation. Interestingly the spiritualists and the religious have the same view of their opponents. That they are the ones blind to reality, not facing the facts, hiding behind their science and logic which does not reflect the reality of the world we live in.

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The only thing that we have concrete evidence for is that the Bible is the words of men, who claim to have had visions and messages delivered to them by God. There is no concrete evidence that the Bible is the word of God... it is blind belief; faith.

And that is the crux of the situation, the reason why these two opposing views can never meet.

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27 minutes ago, Jor-el said:

Simple, most of those counters start off with the incorrect assumptions right from the start. Basically there are those of us who accept that reality is not what it appears to be, and then there are others who have fallen hook, line and sinker to the belief that what they see is all there is.

When those opposing assumptions follow through on their logic and the data available, they get radically differing results.

Yes I do believe mankind was essentially wiped out by the flood event, which was a natural phenomenon brought about by multiple oceanic comet strikes around the globe. Most low lying areas around the globe were flooded by multiple mega tsunamis on one hand and a major climatic shift into a global mini ice age that wiped out any other survivors except those that were prepared for it beforehand. 99% of the people lived in valleys, plains and the shores of the worlds oceans. Any survivors would have died as the result of the secondary effects, which would have caused crop failures along with human and animal starvation. Storms that would last for months and years at a time, temperature drops that would kill most living things that survived.

Essentially humanity was wiped out except for a very few individual groups of the hardiest survivors. The bible tells us the story from the perspective of one such group, who were prepared and forewarned.

In essence the story is not so much about the survival of a few people, but the utter destruction of the society that existed before that event. Some label that society as the antediluvians, others call them Atlantis, Mu and many other names, but all are merely dim remembrances of a time before the flood. An advanced worldwide ocean faring society, where most of the so called civilizations of antiquity got their laws, religion, architecture and astronomy, of which many reminders are still to be found all over the world.

Most peoples problems with the bible stem from the fact that they can't accept that it is somehow speaking of true events because that flies in the face of their comfort zones. Most people are simply unprepared to face such major changes in their worldviews. Atheists most of all.

Your comment about 8 unskilled people demonstrates this quite clearly. They probably had more skills in areas that you would be ignorant of than you can give them credit for. They were members of that previous society, they weren't unschooled, unskilled and ignorant, but convention forbids you to accept that as simply too unbelievable which doesn't surprise me in the least. After all you are simply parroting what the "experts" have to say.

Like I said, we are talking of two opposing and completely antagonistic views of the world, there is no middle ground for them to meet. One is completely materialistic and cannot admit to anything else, the other is spiritualistic and cannot accept the materialistic view as anything but self annihilation.

When you listen to one side you have to exclude the other, that is the basis of propaganda.

Was it not mentioned that the people in the videos were once Christian believers who lost their faith in God and the bible? That is the fall I mentioned.

Atheism contrary to what most people defend really does involve belief. It is the belief that they are right and the believers are wrong. The moment they make a movement of something like atheism, it involves belief. It may be based on the assumptions that they are dealing with reality and facts whereas their opponents are dealing with tradition, ignorance and superstition, but it still stems from belief, whether you and they accept that or not doesn't change the equation. Interestingly the spiritualists and the religious have the same view of their opponents. That they are the ones blind to reality, not facing the facts, hiding behind their science and logic which does not reflect the reality of the world we live in.

And that is the crux of the situation, the reason why these two opposing views can never meet.

Jor el, you open with "most people start out with incorrect assumptions from the start, [confirmation bias] then there are those of us [you] that accept that reality is not what it appears to be" (Jor el).

In otherwords, under these conditions you are a sitting duck for propaganda: hook, line and sinker. 

You must have some reality checkers in place, how could you possible get through a day? 

You are accusing others of being blind to reality, hiding behind science and logic which you quote " does not reflect the reality of the world we live in" (Jor el).

The crux of the situation for you lies here, IMHO you can't reconcile differing views due to lack of reasoning. 

This is not an insult, this post for me seems to be advocating for the lack of reason. 

Is this your intent?

Have you considered working towards finding a middle ground?

 

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36 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Jor el, you open with "most people start out with incorrect assumptions from the start, [confirmation bias] then there are those of us [you] that accept that reality is not what it appears to be" (Jor el).

In otherwords, under these conditions you are a sitting duck for propaganda: hook, line and sinker. 

You must have some reality checkers in place, how could you possible get through a day? 

You are accusing others of being blind to reality, hiding behind science and logic which you quote " does not reflect the reality of the world we live in" (Jor el).

The crux of the situation for you lies here, IMHO you can't reconcile differing views due to lack of reasoning. 

This is not an insult, this post for me seems to be advocating for the lack of reason. 

Is this your intent?

Have you considered working towards finding a middle ground?

 

That works both ways, confirmation bias and all, we have established that on previous occasions.

Propaganda is used by both sides, or haven't you actually realized that for yourself?

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3 hours ago, Jor-el said:

Simple, most of those counters start off with the incorrect assumptions right from the start.

I am curious as to what "counters" you're referring to, as the "most" you're referring to certainly does not include the debunking video that was provided earlier in the thread. Bill Nye's assumptions are either taken directly from information found in the bible (i.e. the eight unskilled crewmen, the dimensions of the Ark, etc.), or an off-handed estimation of the amount of animals that were taken above the ark (which is neither correct nor incorrect, given the Bible's ambiguity on exactly how many were taken aboard the ark).

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Basically there are those of us who accept that reality is not what it appears to be, and then there are others who have fallen hook, line and sinker to the belief that what they see is all there is.

 

I'm not sure as to how this is relevant.

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When those opposing assumptions follow through on their logic and the data available, they get radically differing results.

 

They do, and in the case of science, it is more-often-than-not correct when compared against religion.

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Yes I do believe mankind was essentially wiped out by the flood event, which was a natural phenomenon brought about by multiple oceanic comet strikes around the globe.

Which is interesting, because previously in the thread when you were speaking of the flood event you indicated that the flood event in reference to the "earth" was only concerned with the Middle East, and not all of mankind...

"The region in which people lived and interacted. In other words the "earth" in this context was the wider middle east." (pp. 16, #389)

Also, can you cite some sources to indicate that it was "multiple comet strikes around the globe" at that time which caused flooding?

Secondly, why is the cause of the flooding now the result of comets? Does the bible state that? You referenced it on the previous page so I am just curious.

I just checked, and no... it doesn't state anything about comets or mega tsunamis. All that I have found is the following:

"Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living creature I have made.” (Genesis 7:4)

To me it seems like when one idea fails for you, you latch on to others in hopes that it's true, and that it won't be refuted. This is just my observation but I honestly don't think that you are being fully genuine in your beliefs. You're a very smart person, but I believe you to be intellectually dishonest.

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Most low lying areas around the globe were flooded by multiple mega tsunamis on one hand and a major climatic shift into a global mini ice age that wiped out any other survivors except those that were prepared for it beforehand.

Citations needed. I have done a search on Google and can come up with no reputable scientific source indicating that there were "mega tsunamis" and a "major climatic shift into a global mini ice age" at that period of time--all I have found is conjecture from sources that focus on New Age and religious material in an attempt to validate the Bible.

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99% of the people lived in valleys, plains and the shores of the worlds oceans. Any survivors would have died as the result of the secondary effects, which would have caused crop failures along with human and animal starvation. Storms that would last for months and years at a time, temperature drops that would kill most living things that survived.

Exactly, which is why we would not be alive today if the Biblical ark story was true. The humans would have very likely died on the Ark. If not on the ark, from starvation... all plant life would have died. Soil would be saturated with salt, damaging the ability to grow crops... we'd all be dead if this happened, unless there were some advanced approaches taken that were not included in the bible.

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Essentially humanity was wiped out except for a very few individual groups of the hardiest survivors. The bible tells us the story from the perspective of one such group, who were prepared and forewarned.

But that isn't exactly what you said on the previous page. You said that it was just the "greater Middle East".

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In essence the story is not so much about the survival of a few people, but the utter destruction of the society that existed before that event. Some label that society as the antediluvians, others call them Atlantis, Mu and many other names, but all are merely dim remembrances of a time before the flood. An advanced worldwide ocean faring society, where most of the so called civilizations of antiquity got their laws, religion, architecture and astronomy, of which many reminders are still to be found all over the world.

Where do you get these ideas? Can you cite some sources that show that that society in such a way as you claim?

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Most peoples problems with the bible stem from the fact that they can't accept that it is somehow speaking of true events because that flies in the face of their comfort zones. Most people are simply unprepared to face such major changes in their worldviews. Atheists most of all.

I would absolutely concede that the bible spoke of true events so long as there was evidence that coincided with the claims. So far, there is so little (or none) so as to be considered risible; inconclusive, as it were.

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Like I said, we are talking of two opposing and completely antagonistic views of the world, there is no middle ground for them to meet. One is completely materialistic and cannot admit to anything else, the other is spiritualistic and cannot accept the materialistic view as anything but self annihilation.

I'm not sure as to what world-views you're speaking of, but I am going to assume you're referring to "science" meeting "religion".

The wonderful thing about science is that it is very flexible; it does not hold on to preconceived beliefs or notions as being true in the face of overwhelming evidence, rather it seeks to determine whether or not there is evidence to support something or not. If there is, then results are updated accordingly; if not, well... they're not updated. The difference between science and religion is that religion is dependent upon faith, belief, obedience, authority... science is based completely on evidence that is available at the present time, independent of whether or not a claim is made authoritatively.

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When you listen to one side you have to exclude the other, that is the basis of propaganda.

 

Not necessarily.

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Atheism contrary to what most people defend really does involve belief. It is the belief that they are right and the believers are wrong.

No, it's simply a lack of a belief in a god or gods. It's not "belief that they are right and believers are wrong"--at least not in the Oxford dictionary's definition of atheism.

 

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atheist

NOUN

  • A person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods.

 

 

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The moment they make a movement of something like atheism, it involves belief.

1.) Who is "they"?

2.) How?

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It may be based on the assumptions that they are dealing with reality and facts whereas their opponents are dealing with tradition, ignorance and superstition, but it still stems from belief, whether you and they accept that or not doesn't change the equation.

No. I'm pretty sure that belief doesn't enter the equation--a lot of these movements are based on the lack of evidence in support of deities. It's not about belief.

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Interestingly the spiritualists and the religious have the same view of their opponents. That they are the ones blind to reality, not facing the facts, hiding behind their science and logic which does not reflect the reality of the world we live in.

Pretty sure that science provides an excellent understanding as to the reality of the world that we live in.

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And that is the crux of the situation, the reason why these two opposing views can never meet.

You are correct. Science is based on reality, evidence, and logic; religion is based on faith, authority, and superstition.

Edited by Nuclear Wessel
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8 hours ago, Jor-el said:

That works both ways, confirmation bias and all, we have established that on previous occasions.

Propaganda is used by both sides, or haven't you actually realized that for yourself?

Jor el are you advocating lack of reason? That is all I am asking.

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Well, he certainly displayed it above, and couldn't answer to the issues raised about his fantasy explanations  , all over the last page.

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How sad. Once again a theist tries and fails, utterly, to use logic and reason to validate the illogical and unreasonable. Reminds me of a Fundamentalist Baptist Church I frequented for a time who professed belief in the infallibility of the Bible. Never-the-less, as they were all teetotalers who believed in abstinence from alcohol, they insisted the wine referred to in the New Testament was really just grape juice and alcohol never touched the lips of Jesus. When I pointed out the Bible states Jesus turned water into wine and that would mean he just made Kool-Aid, instead, I was greeted with an uncomfortable silence and was royally disliked.

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2 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

How sad. Once again a theist tries and fails, utterly, to use logic and reason to validate the illogical and unreasonable. Reminds me of a Fundamentalist Baptist Church I frequented for a time who professed belief in the infallibility of the Bible. Never-the-less, as they were all teetotalers who believed in abstinence from alcohol, they insisted the wine referred to in the New Testament was really just grape juice and alcohol never touched the lips of Jesus. When I pointed out the Bible states Jesus turned water into wine and that would mean he just made Kool-Aid, instead, I was greeted with an uncomfortable silence and was royally disliked.

You wouldn't have been greeted by silence by me. I would have been hooting and wheezing from laughing so hard LOL.

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"Record enough facts, and the answer will fall to you like a ripe fruit."

Just be careful it doesn't have a worm.

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