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I'm skeptical


Nic727

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Hi,

After two years on this forum I'm always skeptical about Astral Projection/OBE/etc.

I tried many time, but doesn't work at all. When in my bed, I'm relaxing and laying on my back, but since I'm not very confortable in this position I change position, but I fall asleep a couple of minutes later... No dreams... Or sometimes I can remember a dream of about 10 minutes of non-sense stuffs (always weird to see that when you are in a dream, every weird things look normal for your dream-self even if it doesn't exist in real world) and that's it. Can't really control myself in dream to start from lucid dream and try to go out of the dream to go to astral plane (if it exist). Or sometimes I just wake up without remembering anything from dreams. It's kind of annoying, because I want to experience OBE or something similar. If only someone from the forum could try to visit me during the night and kind of wake me up to go astral plane, but I don't think it's working like that even if you can go around the world by teleportation... A lot of people are talking about a guide, but since my guide still doesn't exist, I don't know what to think about that... Do you need to believe in god to do Astral Projection? I'm atheist, so maybe AP is all hallucination?

Also weird that nobody tried to hide a card somewhere in the house and ask to someone to randomly pick a card and you try to see it and confirm via AP/OBE.

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11 minutes ago, Nic727 said:

Hi,

After two years on this forum I'm always skeptical about Astral Projection/OBE/etc.

I tried many time, but doesn't work at all. When in my bed, I'm relaxing and laying on my back, but since I'm not very confortable in this position I change position, but I fall asleep a couple of minutes later... No dreams... Or sometimes I can remember a dream of about 10 minutes of non-sense stuffs (always weird to see that when you are in a dream, every weird things look normal for your dream-self even if it doesn't exist in real world) and that's it. Can't really control myself in dream to start from lucid dream and try to go out of the dream to go to astral plane (if it exist). Or sometimes I just wake up without remembering anything from dreams. It's kind of annoying, because I want to experience OBE or something similar. If only someone from the forum could try to visit me during the night and kind of wake me up to go astral plane, but I don't think it's working like that even if you can go around the world by teleportation... A lot of people are talking about a guide, but since my guide still doesn't exist, I don't know what to think about that... Do you need to believe in god to do Astral Projection? I'm atheist, so maybe AP is all hallucination?

One thing is that some people are naturally gifted to be more psychic etc. I am fascinated by the stuff but I don't even bother to try myself. Because we can't do it does not mean others can't.

 

14 minutes ago, Nic727 said:

Also weird that nobody tried to hide a card somewhere in the house and ask to someone to randomly pick a card and you try to see it and confirm via AP/OBE.

I'm new here and don't know the people you talk to. I know Dr. Charles Tart had an gifted subject that read a random number correctly. But I agree with your interest in seeing more such test. The problem may be that not many claim they can do that card thing. And also it may be akin to remote viewing where they can exceed chance by an amount that proves something real is going on, but they are rarely perfect detailed hits. Like telepathy, I think such things are a weak but real human ability. I have heard multiple stunning stories of shamans that can see detailed things remotely.

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I got as far as learning he was a core faculty member at the institute of " transpersonal psychology".. which I had to look up and can be defined as a "spiritual psychology" ..intermingling the science of psychology and the spiritual realm...HA!

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13 minutes ago, khol said:

I got as far as learning he was a core faculty member at the institute of " transpersonal psychology".. which I had to look up and can be defined as a "spiritual psychology" ..intermingling the science of psychology and the spiritual realm...HA!

I stand corrected..psychology is not a science after all..

https://mindhacks.com/2013/08/20/dont-panic-but-psychology-isnt-always-a-science/

To the OP I would stand with your opening sentence  :)

 

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2 hours ago, Nic727 said:

 

I tried many time, but doesn't work at all. When in my bed, I'm relaxing and laying on my back, but since I'm not very comfortable in this position I change position, but I fall asleep a couple of minutes later...

Nic727 - About 47 years ago I bought a book on astral projection, and like you, I fell asleep when I tried it. 

I've used lucid dreaming two times to address some emotional issues I was dealing with, and both times I was successful. I should emphasize that lucid dreaming is not something I want to pursue as a hobby. It's too much like an "altered state of consciousness" which I've noticed mostly occurs when drugs, alcohol or insanity are involved.

I really enjoyed reading your OP. You seem to be someone who takes the time to thoroughly think things out.

Is the 727 in your screen name a reference to the Boeing aircraft?

Edited by simplybill
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1 hour ago, khol said:

From the article:

"According to researcher Susan Blackmore, author of "Beyond the Body: An Investigation of Out-of-the-Body Experiences," people who experience astral travel "have been found to score higher on measures of hypnotizability and, in several surveys, on measures of absorption, [a] measure of a person's ability to pay complete attention to something and to become immersed in it, even if it is not real, like a film, play, or imagined event." Out-of-body experiencers are more imaginative, suggestible, and fantasy-prone than average, though have low levels of drug and alcohol use, and no obvious signs of psychopathology or mental illness."

That last sentence is interesting. 

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2 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

One thing is that some people are naturally gifted to be more psychic

No, that doesn't happen, there are no people that are naturally or unnaturally gifted to be more or less psychic.  Unless you have proof to offer that changes our minds?

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20 minutes ago, Thorvir said:

that changes our minds?

I can do much, but the impossible shouldn't be bothered with.

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28 minutes ago, Thorvir said:

No, that doesn't happen, there are no people that are naturally or unnaturally gifted to be more or less psychic.  Unless you have proof to offer that changes our minds?

With all due respect sir, it is not his job to prove/disprove your assertion. I won't ask you to do it either.

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4 hours ago, XenoFish said:

To me Astral Projection is just another term for Lucid Dreaming. Meaning it's the same thing.

There is a significant difference. With Astral projection it's been reported that one can see his real self, lying in bed or elsewhere while others might also be able to see you in this reality in astral form. Lucid dreaming is becoming aware that one is dreaming.

Edited by TruthSeeker_
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You get uncomfortable cause your body is trying to ask the brain if it's time to go to sleep. When you roll over you mess the process up. Keep going, don't move a muscle when your body wants to roll over. You have to make your body believe that the brain has fallen asleep. Man you have been doing that for 2 years without getting advice?

Edited by preacherman76
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Whatever position you lay down in, whether on your back or whatever, that's the position you must remain in. 

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Many people claim to have had some kind of out-of-body experience. However, there's no evidence that people who think they've experienced astral travel have actually gone anywhere.

http://www.livescience.com/27978-astral-projection.html

 

Let me make a little connection here, people believe they can see ghosts, the soul of a dead person, and people believe their soul can leave their body when they are asleep, so why can NO ONE see the soul of a person who is sleeping floating about, but they claim to see the soul of a dead one?

Anyway, the answer is, you were dreaming ...a mind trip. You can not leave your body, but you can dream you have.

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Let's not forget the all-important component of blind-belief; after all no psychic ability can work or even exist unless you suspend all critical thinking, evidence and skepticism and just buckle down and believe on command.

If anyone dares to question you or ask for actual proof you just plug your ears and scream LALALALALALALALALA...I can't hear you, don't confuse and bother me with facts or questions!

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9 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

I can do much, but the impossible shouldn't be bothered with.

Gotcha, you're as closed-minded as I thought you were.  And have nothing to actually provide as proof.

Edited by Thorvir
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9 hours ago, freetoroam said:

Many people claim to have had some kind of out-of-body experience. However, there's no evidence that people who think they've experienced astral travel have actually gone anywhere.

http://www.livescience.com/27978-astral-projection.html

 

Let me make a little connection here, people believe they can see ghosts, the soul of a dead person, and people believe their soul can leave their body when they are asleep, so why can NO ONE see the soul of a person who is sleeping floating about, but they claim to see the soul of a dead one?

Anyway, the answer is, you were dreaming ...a mind trip. You can not leave your body, but you can dream you have.

Why should what you believe about this matter? The guy wanted to know how it was done, and what he could do to better his chances at a experience. Real or not, he could very much still get that experience. Why do you people come into every thread like this and think what you believe is soo important that you derail threads?

 

But lets really get to the heart of your article. It said-

It may be a profound experience, but the fundamental problem is that there's really no way to scientifically measure whether or not a person's spirit "leaves" or "enters" the body. The simplest and best explanation for out-of-body experiences is that the person is merely fantasizing and dreaming. Because there is no scientific evidence that the soul exists

In other words they have no idea either, and have clearly started this "research" from a pre conceived notion. How could you ever get people to look at something, when those people start with the assumption that it doesn't exist. Yea that's some ground breaking science there. My goodness.

Edited by preacherman76
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4 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

Why should what you believe about this matter? The guy wanted to know how it was done, and what he could do to better his chances at a experience. Real or not, he could very much still get that experience. Why do you people come into every thread like this and think what you believe is soo important that you derail threads?

Because there is a fine line between something legit and delusion. Plus the more you actually know about something the better it is. And if I am correct the title is I'm Skeptical.

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7 hours ago, Ryu said:

Let's not forget the all-important component of blind-belief; after all no psychic ability can work or even exist unless you suspend all critical thinking, evidence and skepticism and just buckle down and believe on command.

If anyone dares to question you or ask for actual proof you just plug your ears and scream LALALALALALALALALA...I can't hear you, don't confuse and bother me with facts or questions!

Maybe for some. My first OBE happened to me before I ever heard the words astral projection, or intentional out of body experiences. Heck I eventually talked myself out of believeing it ever happened, then like a year later completely outta no where it happened again. It was a really profound experience that time, no way I could go back.

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15 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Because there is a fine line between something legit and delusion. Plus the more you actually know about something the better it is. And if I am correct the title is I'm Skeptical.

Accept astral projection IS ligit. What is actually happening is still in debate for some, but how its described isn't delusional at all. People really do experience it.  

If you had bothered to read his post, you'd understand the OP wasn't a invitation to express your disbelief.

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13 minutes ago, preacherman76 said:

Accept astral projection IS ligit. What is actually happening is still in debate for some, but how its described isn't delusional at all. People really do experience it.  

If you had bothered to read his post, you'd understand the OP wasn't a invitation to express your disbelief.

Location:in the depths of my mind

That look familiar. Yeah regardless of what you want me to do and what you want to belief. You are a closed system. So the only 'projecting' you're doing is an imaginary journey. If you and others want to spend time in a hypnogogic/hypnapompic lucid dream state, by all means do so. But until the day real evidence presents itself I'm keeping my opinions.

http://sploid.gizmodo.com/scientists-unlock-mystery-of-woman-who-sees-herself-out-1538196076

Edited by XenoFish
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15 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Location:in the depths of my mind

That look familiar. Yeah regardless of what you want me to do and what you want to belief. You are a closed system. So the only 'projecting' you're doing is an imaginary journey. If you and others want to spend time in a hypnogogic/hypnapompic lucid dream state, by all means do so. But until the day real evidence presents itself I'm keeping my opinions.

Around and around we go. This is the part where I remind you that YOU are the one speaking in absolutes, not me. YOU are the closed system, not me.

Here is the point though, no one was asking you if you believed it or not. Most of these threads have nothing to do with your personal opinion about it. Yet here you are once again, derailing another thread.

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15 hours ago, preacherman76 said:

Why should what you believe about this matter? The guy wanted to know how it was done, and what he could do to better his chances at a experience. Real or not, he could very much still get that experience. Why do you people come into every thread like this and think what you believe is soo important that you derail threads?

 

But lets really get to the heart of your article. It said-

It may be a profound experience, but the fundamental problem is that there's really no way to scientifically measure whether or not a person's spirit "leaves" or "enters" the body. The simplest and best explanation for out-of-body experiences is that the person is merely fantasizing and dreaming. Because there is no scientific evidence that the soul exists

In other words they have no idea either, and have clearly started this "research" from a pre conceived notion. How could you ever get people to look at something, when those people start with the assumption that it doesn't exist. Yea that's some ground breaking science there. My goodness.

I go by the bold, until you can prove other wise or anyone who claims this, can, then we are at this stage: no scientific evidence that the soul exists...... even non scientific evidence exists.

The guy wants to know how it is done, so far there is no evidence it can be done.

I have asked a question, can you answer this:

On 1/6/2017 at 11:51 AM, freetoroam said:

why can NO ONE see the soul of a person who is sleeping floating about, but they claim to see the soul of a dead one?

 

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