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Consequences of moving embassy to Jerusalem?


and-then

U.S. embassy in Jerusalem  

12 members have voted

  1. 1. Will the new president move the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem?

    • Yes
      11
    • No
      1


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Assuming DJT officially moves the U.S. embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, what do you think the effects will be?  Jordan and the P.A. have already stated it would mean the end of the 2 state solution and could be a "catastrophe".  How will the E.U. react?

I'll get this rolling.  I believe he will make the move.  The E.U. and Obama seem to be intent on imposing parameters for an end-state outcome.  There is a conference on Sunday, 1/15, that the Israeli government believes will be used to codify the outcome that is desired and that it will be put forward as a resolution in the security council.  If Obama allows it to pass, Israel will be set up for crippling sanctions if they refuse to accede.  Enter president Trump.  He could have the leverage to bring a threat of counter-sanctions to the E.U. countries and call their hand.  If they fold, they could force the Palestinians to come to the table.  If the E.U. refuses and continues to sanction Israel, war will eventually be the result.

What say you?

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Well, the Palestinians have reacted with typical hysteria, with the PA Religious Adviser describing this as a "war on muslims". 

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4904127,00.html

Several US Presidential candidates have promised to fulfill the 1995 Jerusalem Embassy act, but then have failed to do so once in office. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Embassy_Act

Will Trump be different, and give the PLO a long-overdue slap in the face ? Only time will tell :)

Edited by RoofGardener
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2 hours ago, and then said:

Assuming DJT officially moves the U.S. embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, what do you think the effects will be?  Jordan and the P.A. have already stated it would mean the end of the 2 state solution and could be a "catastrophe".  How will the E.U. react?

I'll get this rolling.  I believe he will make the move.  The E.U. and Obama seem to be intent on imposing parameters for an end-state outcome.  There is a conference on Sunday, 1/15, that the Israeli government believes will be used to codify the outcome that is desired and that it will be put forward as a resolution in the security council.  If Obama allows it to pass, Israel will be set up for crippling sanctions if they refuse to accede.  Enter president Trump.  He could have the leverage to bring a threat of counter-sanctions to the E.U. countries and call their hand.  If they fold, they could force the Palestinians to come to the table.  If the E.U. refuses and continues to sanction Israel, war will eventually be the result.

What say you?

Really?!!  There is zero point, zero, zero, zero percent that Israel or the US will go to war with the EU.  I repeat, zero percent.

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1 hour ago, Black Red Devil said:

Really?!!  There is zero point, zero, zero, zero percent that Israel or the US will go to war with the EU.  I repeat, zero percent.

I guess he means that will be the excuse that will trigger a war with Israel in the centre, but not with Europe (or between US and UE), rather with Muslim neighbours. 

 

Either that or the US will never move war to EU because of Israel (according to me, obviously). 

 

Wether the case, war is not gonna happen because of that. 

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Rhetorical Question:

Other than as a symbolic gesture, is there a good reason to move the American embassy to Jerusalem? I understand that Jerusalem is the ultimate religious symbol for the Jewish people (The Holy City), but how does a foreign embassy give it any more significance than it already has? 

I don't think it's wise to risk alienating the rest of the world over an unimportant embassy building. Save the promise of American support for when Israel begins construction of their new Temple on the Temple Mount. That will be the ultimate test of loyalty!

 

 

 

 

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An interesting perspective:

"An American embassy in West Jerusalem does not prejudice the status of the Old City or negate the eminently reasonable desire of Palestinians to have their future capital in East Jerusalem. Keeping the embassy in Tel Aviv grants a hecklers’ veto to those whose real problem is with any Israeli presence in Jerusalem and who aim to deny the Jewish connection to Jerusalem."

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-us-embassy-jerusalem-explosive-issue-2017-1

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1 hour ago, simplybill said:

Other than as a symbolic gesture, is there a good reason to move the American embassy to Jerusalem?

Non-rhetorical answer: It (Jerusalem) is the capital city of Israel, after all, and if the Israelis say it's okay to move the embassy there, then we should move the embassy there.

Edited by Thorvir
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10 hours ago, Parsec said:

I guess he means that will be the excuse that will trigger a war with Israel in the centre, but not with Europe (or between US and UE), rather with Muslim neighbours

 

Either that or the US will never move war to EU because of Israel (according to me, obviously). 

 

Wether the case, war is not gonna happen because of that. 

4

It was rather late/early when I posted this so I apologize for the confusion.  You understood the point I was attempting to make.

 

12 hours ago, RoofGardener said:

Well, the Palestinians have reacted with typical hysteria, with the PA Religious Adviser describing this as a "war on muslims". 

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4904127,00.html

Several US Presidential candidates have promised to fulfill the 1995 Jerusalem Embassy act, but then have failed to do so once in office. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Embassy_Act

Will Trump be different, and give the PLO a long-overdue slap in the face ? Only time will tell :)

 

He gives every indication that he's going to follow through.  Yes, the Palestinians will go berzerk, but it remains to be seen how the EU will react.  Change is coming.  I think that much depends on what is done in Paris on the 15th.  If Obama recognizes a Palestinian state within a set of rough borders, even if it seems equivocal, I wouldn't be surprised if Bibi starts listening to the annexation crowd.

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It's a very bad idea on Trump's part if he does move the embassy there.It'll cause a lot of trouble.

I believe that it's a selfish and stupid thing to do.

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3 hours ago, ali smack said:

It's a very bad idea on Trump's part if he does move the embassy there.It'll cause a lot of trouble.

I believe that it's a selfish and stupid thing to do.

Why is it selfish, why is it stupid?  The capital of Israel is Jerusalem, if the Israelis--the legal people and government in control of that land--wants the embassy there as well, then why not?  Other than a possible personal bias on your part, I ask again...why is it selfish, why is it stupid?

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In the long run, I don’t see anything happening.  Even if today’s conference somehow favors the Palestinians, the socialist governments of France and Germany will fall and between the new governments of those nations and the US will repeal that outcome by the end of the year.  Merkel and Hollande may try to appease the Hijrah and the Muslim world but it will only surrender more initiative to them.  And that won’t be good.  The EU would not want to go to war with us as long as Putin is to their East.  Although it could realign the world power structure greatly.  That’ll just depend on how Putin gets along with Trump.  I see great opportunity for us and we have the right person in the right place to seize that opportunity.

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The Paris Peace Conference just ended, and the reactions to it are already showing up online. I'm not taking sides, but I think we can expect the headlines will follow this pattern:

"According to Israel Radio, the subject of the embassy relocation was the chief topic of religious sermons throughout the West Bank prior to a deadly truck ramming attack in Jerusalem which left four soldiers dead. The relatives of the attacker, Fadi al-Qunbar, said he carried out the attack after hearing the sermon at his local east Jerusalem mosque, and “was very angry, and said transferring the embassy would lead to war.”

http://m.jpost.com/#article=6017MERDQTQ4QTUzMkZDNjg4NjA1RTcxOTgwQjFFMEZGRUE=

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1 hour ago, simplybill said:

The Paris Peace Conference just ended, and the reactions to it are already showing up online. I'm not taking sides, but I think we can expect the headlines will follow this pattern:

"According to Israel Radio, the subject of the embassy relocation was the chief topic of religious sermons throughout the West Bank prior to a deadly truck ramming attack in Jerusalem which left four soldiers dead. The relatives of the attacker, Fadi al-Qunbar, said he carried out the attack after hearing the sermon at his local east Jerusalem mosque, and “was very angry, and said transferring the embassy would lead to war.”

http://m.jpost.com/#article=6017MERDQTQ4QTUzMkZDNjg4NjA1RTcxOTgwQjFFMEZGRUE=

 

The EU nations, led by the French, have lost any credibility as an "honest broker" so why should America worry about choosing the open part of an ally?  Saying that violence will follow in the M.E. is a bit like "threatening" hot weather, come summer.  It's just a given.  If not now, surely it will still come later.  For my part, I hope Trump keeps his word and sends a new message to the world about the US alliance with Israel.  

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23 minutes ago, and then said:

For my part, I hope Trump keeps his word and sends a new message to the world about the US alliance with Israel.  

It would certainly restore some of my trust in politicians. 

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 Wow, Trump sure has gotten the world's attention.

“As we enter the Trump era, we cannot stay passive, we have to come up with our own plan,” Kisch told The Jerusalem Post. “The autonomy plan represents a realistic alternative to the dichotomous proposals of the Left and the Right, and offers a better and brighter future for the State of Israel. This plan will prevent the establishment of a terrorist state in the heart of the Land of Israel and will enable the State of Israel to preserve its special character as a Jewish and democratic state.”

http://m.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Kisch-unveils-plan-A-Palestinian-autonomous-region-in-West-Bank-478548#article=6017Q0NENTg0MEIzRUYxM0E5N0VCNjYxMDNGMEVEQkJFQUM=

Edited by simplybill
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15 hours ago, simplybill said:

 Wow, Trump sure has gotten the world's attention.

“As we enter the Trump era, we cannot stay passive, we have to come up with our own plan,” Kisch told The Jerusalem Post. “The autonomy plan represents a realistic alternative to the dichotomous proposals of the Left and the Right, and offers a better and brighter future for the State of Israel. This plan will prevent the establishment of a terrorist state in the heart of the Land of Israel and will enable the State of Israel to preserve its special character as a Jewish and democratic state.”

http://m.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Kisch-unveils-plan-A-Palestinian-autonomous-region-in-West-Bank-478548#article=6017Q0NENTg0MEIzRUYxM0E5N0VCNjYxMDNGMEVEQkJFQUM=

Well, this is a person that learns from history. 

For centuries Jews were relegated in ghettos, now he'd like to return the favour to Palestinians.

And with such reasonable arguments.

Well played.

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27 minutes ago, Parsec said:

 

And with such reasonable arguments.

The Palestinians have been asking for a two-state Israel, and this is one solution. His proposal is no less reasonable than the Palestinians'.

Edited by simplybill
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  • 2 weeks later...

I don't doubt it at all. It's a way to officially say that there can only be one state, the state of Israel.

One big F to Palestinians. Isn't it enough that they are living in apartheid, constant struggle day by day... Their children get murdered even if they make a car accident... Now let's crush their dreams too! No Palestinian should be allowed to dream! 

Disgusting, i can't allow my self to lose faith in humanity but all this is too much.

 

I am disgusted by all those peaceful preaching, all those scumbags in world politics who say one thing, always morally right, but do the other, thing which has nothing to do with any decency. What has changed since Oslo? Well, for one thing, many Palestinian families still wait their housing permits - meanwhile over 300.000 more people is settled in Palestinian lands. Oh sorry, there is no Palestinian lands, it's the land which all mighty God has reserved for Israel. One cant go against God's will. Great God it is, blood thirsty one. Amen.

 

[edit] to add

 

you see @and then, friend, there can be million more UN resolutions and it doesn't matter because Israel can just say '' who care '' :) Power rules, who care for them stupid, 'immoral', international laws.

Edited by Sir Smoke aLot
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On 1/14/2017 at 4:14 AM, and then said:

Assuming DJT officially moves the U.S. embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, what do you think the effects will be?  Jordan and the P.A. have already stated it would mean the end of the 2 state solution and could be a "catastrophe".  How will the E.U. react?

I'll get this rolling.  I believe he will make the move.  The E.U. and Obama seem to be intent on imposing parameters for an end-state outcome.  There is a conference on Sunday, 1/15, that the Israeli government believes will be used to codify the outcome that is desired and that it will be put forward as a resolution in the security council.  If Obama allows it to pass, Israel will be set up for crippling sanctions if they refuse to accede.  Enter president Trump.  He could have the leverage to bring a threat of counter-sanctions to the E.U. countries and call their hand.  If they fold, they could force the Palestinians to come to the table.  If the E.U. refuses and continues to sanction Israel, war will eventually be the result.

What say you?

I confess to wishing we would end our support for israel and not really giving a rats ass about them or their issues so im a little confused over the issue here.

Can you explain why the move from Tel Aviv is important and why its controversial?

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39 minutes ago, Sir Smoke aLot said:

Isn't it enough that they are living in apartheid, constant struggle day by day... Their children get murdered even if they make a car accident... Now let's crush their dreams too! No Palestinian should be allowed to dream! 

5f7.jpeg

You're certainly on a roll recently...

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3 minutes ago, Thorvir said:

5f7.jpeg

You're certainly on a roll recently...

Difference of opinion is a normal thing, some of us agree to disagree ( i base my opinion on facts not fiction, can you prove me that Palestinians enjoy freedom in their everyday life? ) but others rather resort to attack credibility of other people simply by 'facepalming'. Your post is kinda off topic but i like the joke, thanks for laughs ;)

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On 1/27/2017 at 1:35 PM, Sir Smoke aLot said:

......What has changed since Oslo?....

Well, certainly not the PLO charter, despite that being a pre-condition of the Oslo negotiations. Despite multiple promises to the UN, and the the American President, they are still constitutionally committed to the destruction of Israel by violence, and committed to rejecting all international agreements that fall short of the aforementioned destruction. 

That was the PLO then, and that is the PLO now. So sod 'em :D

 

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1 hour ago, RoofGardener said:

Well, certainly not the PLO charter, despite that being a pre-condition of the Oslo negotiations. Despite multiple promises to the UN, and the the American President, they are still constitutionally committed to the destruction of Israel by violence, and committed to rejecting all international agreements that fall short of the aforementioned destruction. 

That was the PLO then, and that is the PLO now. So sod 'em :D

 

As i have said already, official government in West Bank try peaceful approach and where did it lead them? Israel is doing it's thing, in baby steps maybe, but every new day there is less land for ( possible ) Palestinian state. Given time, there will be no Palestinian state possible.

Also, it is a bit illogical to claim that oppressed and occupied population would destroy Israel. Reminds me of those propaganda pictures when bombs were falling over Gaza and rockets over Israel... Hamas rocket falls on desert terrain, harms no one and Israeli IDF officer points the finger saying '' there, you see they attack us we have to respond ''. Result, well, result of that is still very much seen and felt in Gaza. I do not approve rockets but sure as hell i would not approve such retaliation from IDF.

One politician, president of one part of my country says ( making connection between isis and Bosnian Muslims, rhetoric which actually amuse me very much ) : 

'' We have fought this terror in 90s, defended our people from it so we knew then but the world didn't listen. Now the world should ask us how to handle them, we have the experience. ''. This comes from supporter of old regime which is, in full capacity, serving long term in Hague war criminal jails, i guess they are only regime in the world who managed to do genocide while 'defending'. I mention it because words, no matter how chosen, can't change the facts presented by reality of what is happening or what has happened on the field.

If situation do not change to better in that ME area then only conclusion would be that they all like war. Surely, that isn't the case. Sorry for a bit longer reply. 

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On 2017-01-27 at 8:37 AM, Farmer77 said:

 

Can you explain why the move from Tel Aviv is important and why its controversial?

''East Jerusalem represents the eastern half of Jerusalem and is viewed by Palestinians as the capital of Palestine. It became the focus of Palestinian settlement around the Old City of Jerusalem in the period after the Second World War and Israeli independence in 1948. ''

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_significance_of_Jerusalem

Moving the U.S. embassy there is a big **** you to Palestinian aspiration and a sign of unwavering support for the Zionist cause.

 

 

Edited by TruthSeeker_
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Meanwhile, all quiet on the eastern front.  While Russia, EU, USA, Israel and Arab countries focus on an embassy building, China can continue to be the champion of globalization.  In the Philippines, Duterte is po'ed about permanent US bases.  Maybe it is just Duterte feeling spunky, but he could have a new BFF waiting in the wings.  Mexico and China continue to have trade talks.  Its a lucky break for China to have its major rivals  focused elsewhere. 

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