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Chelsea Manning to be FREED!


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6 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Of Course... I don't mean that she should be tortured. But she... errr... he, did get off light. Compared to almost any other person who did something similar, he's getting off light.

I do hope that he gets good care once on his own. I'd not wish anyone to be sick/ill and without hope.

The problem is no one has really done anything similar. No one has really leaked hundreds of thousands onfsoxunents I. That manor.

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2 hours ago, Thanato said:

The problem is no one has really done anything similar. No one has really leaked hundreds of thousands onfsoxunents I. That manor.

Many people do think that 750,000 documents is way worse then, say 7500, and definately worse then, say, 750. Though I will say this... Whether you kill 1 man, or 2000, you can only get the death sentence fulfilled once. I believe many people who have done far less have already served far more time. I could try looking it up, if someone really wants me to, but it would seem obvious.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage_Act_of_1917

Quote

In May 2010, Shamai K. Leibowitz, a translator for the FBI, admitted sharing information with a blogger and pleaded guilty under 18 U.S.C. § 798(a)(3) to one count of disclosure of classified information. As part of a plea bargain, he was sentenced to 20 months in prison.[99][100] 

This guy got 20 months, almost 2 years for ONE COUNT! And he shared with a US blogger, not a foreign national. 

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1 hour ago, DieChecker said:

Many people do think that 750,000 documents is way worse then, say 7500, and definately worse then, say, 750. Though I will say this... Whether you kill 1 man, or 2000, you can only get the death sentence fulfilled once. I believe many people who have done far less have already served far more time. I could try looking it up, if someone really wants me to, but it would seem obvious.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage_Act_of_1917

This guy got 20 months, almost 2 years for ONE COUNT! And he shared with a US blogger, not a foreign national. 

There is very key difference manning wasn't tried by civilian courts

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People keep making the distinction between this and pardoning.   Pardoning is an official version of forgiving and there's no greater forgiveness than commuting a 35-year sentence to one that's months away from time-served.   It's a difference on paper not in substance. 

If Putin hands Snowden to Trump on a silver platter I have to assume that the once-upon-a-time libertarians will derp on Snowden too. 

But if Trump commuted Manning?   Hot dog, there'd be a giant celebration going on right here right now, hosted by the same suspects who can't give credit across an aisle when it's due.

Incidentally Assange doesn't give two sheets to the wind about all the pc partisan yahooery.   He'll run Trump through with equal velocity, whatever there may be to leak in the future.

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10 hours ago, Yamato said:

People keep making the distinction between this and pardoning.   Pardoning is an official version of forgiving and there's no greater forgiveness than commuting a 35-year sentence to one that's months away from time-served.   It's a difference on paper not in substance. 

Not true. If you are Pardoned, your criminal conviction is removed. If you are Commuted, then you are simply let go, but still have that conviction against you.

Go ask someone with a Felony record if they have the same rights as someone who does not have a Felony. There is a clear difference.

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6 hours ago, DieChecker said:

Not true. If you are Pardoned, your criminal conviction is removed. If you are Commuted, then you are simply let go, but still have that conviction against you.

Truth check:

10. Effect of a pardon

While a presidential pardon will restore various rights lost as a result of the pardoned offense and should lessen to some extent the stigma arising from a conviction, it will not erase or expunge the record of your conviction.

https://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardon-information-and-instructions

 

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1 hour ago, Yamato said:

Truth check:

10. Effect of a pardon

While a presidential pardon will restore various rights lost as a result of the pardoned offense and should lessen to some extent the stigma arising from a conviction, it will not erase or expunge the record of your conviction.

https://www.justice.gov/pardon/pardon-information-and-instructions

 

Good to know. Regardless, being Pardoned makes life easier then a Commutation. There's still a big difference. In some states a pardon will still allow you to vote and own a gun, and such. While a Commuted sentence would not.

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On Tuesday, January 17, 2017 at 8:11 PM, Claire. said:

The eaglet cam isn't working for me yet. :angry:

But I do have some good news. It appears Assange will stand by his extradition statement.


 

Soooooo. Has the honorable Julian "Never Lies About Anything" Assange turned himself in yet? Haven't seen\heard anything in the news yet.
 

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2 hours ago, Purifier said:

Soooooo. Has the honorable Julian "Never Lies About Anything" Assange turned himself in yet? Haven't seen\heard anything in the news yet.

Yeah well guess what, Assange is trying to weasel his way out of the extradition. He initially stated that he would keep his word, but now his US lawyer is saying that the clemency Obama granted Manning did not meet the terms of Assange's offer. Apparently, Assange wanted Manning's immediate release.

Do you see the word 'immediate' anywhere? I don't.

If Obama grants Manning clemency Assange will agree to US extradition despite clear unconstitutionality of DoJ case https://t.co/MZU30SlfGK

— WikiLeaks (@wikileaks) January 12, 2017

Anyway, here's more information on the latest developments: The Telegraph

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1 hour ago, Claire. said:

Yeah well guess what, Assange is trying to weasel his way out of the extradition. He initially stated that he would keep his word, but now his US lawyer is saying that the clemency Obama granted Manning did not meet the terms of Assange's offer. Apparently, Assange wanted Manning's immediate release.

Do you see the word 'immediate' anywhere? I don't.

If Obama grants Manning clemency Assange will agree to US extradition despite clear unconstitutionality of DoJ case https://t.co/MZU30SlfGK

— WikiLeaks (@wikileaks) January 12, 2017

Anyway, here's more information on the latest developments: The Telegraph

Well thank you. And no...can't say I do see it anywhere. Hmmmm you know what. Maybe he just needs some time to get some other things done and in order first, before he turns himself in. Could take a year I guess...and another year after that...and another year after that... Because you know, he could never lie about anything and has never lied about anything in the past (recently), so he's eventually going to turn himself, right?

 


 

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2 minutes ago, Purifier said:

Well thank you. And no...can't say I do see it anywhere. Hmmmm you know what. Maybe he just needs some time to get some other things done and in order first, before he turns himself in. Could take a year I guess...and another year after that...and another year after that... Because you know, he could never lie about anything and has never lied about anything in the past (recently), so he's eventually going to turn himself, right?

I actually thought he might do it since he and Trump had become such good buddies (in a manner of speaking). But I realized something was amiss when I read an article about WikiLeaks saying they wanted to release Trump's tax returns. If they start targeting Trump, there's no way Assange would venture near the US. Besides, the Republicans are not inclined to go easy on whistle blowers and their accomplices anyway.

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8 minutes ago, Claire. said:

I actually thought he might do it since he and Trump had become such good buddies (in a manner of speaking). But I realized something was amiss when I read an article about WikiLeaks saying they wanted to release Trump's tax returns. If they start targeting Trump, there's no way Assange would venture near the US. Besides, the Republicans are not inclined to go easy on whistle blowers and their accomplices anyway.

Really? I didn't think you believed him at all, Claire. Well hey, that's okay. Even the best liars can fool me sometimes. And you know the funny thing is, Claire, him and Trump or somewhat alike in one way...they sometimes say one thing and do another. 
 

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5 minutes ago, Purifier said:

Really? I didn't think you believed him at all, Claire. Well hey, that's okay. Even the best liars can fool me sometimes. And you know the funny thing is, Claire, him and Trump or somewhat alike in one way...they sometimes say one thing and do another.

I didn't believe Assange until I heard Trump waxing poetic about him, which then had me wonder if there was something else going on. I did not for a moment think he would come here to face any serious charges filed against him  — but it did occur to me that he would agree to an extradition if he somehow managed work out some sort of deal ahead of time.

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1 hour ago, Claire. said:

I didn't believe Assange until I heard Trump waxing poetic about him, which then had me wonder if there was something else going on. I did not for a moment think he would come here to face any serious charges filed against him  — but it did occur to me that he would agree to an extradition if he somehow managed work out some sort of deal ahead of time.

Oh I see. Well in any case, concerning Assange and his "alternative facts" about actually turning himself in, well I guess we'll just put that down to a "alternative" US extradition as well. ;)
 

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On 1/17/2017 at 4:25 PM, Thanato said:

Well in glad they didn't pardon manning. She does not deserve a pardon.

That soldier was guilty of espionage.  He should have been tried, then shot.  Snowden and Assange are guilty as well but they had (AFAIK) sworn no oath of fealty specifically to the constitution.  That may sound, even be, brutal.  When an individual volunteers for the service and swears that oath, they do so with open eyes.  This young, confused and apparently bitter man chose to use his clearance to strike out at the nation he was sworn to serve.  The only satisfaction I have over the pardon is that this individual is probably incapable of real peace in his life.  After causing the deaths of individuals he didn't know or care about, he deserves none.  

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