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Clairvoyants


docyabut2

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On ‎2‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 5:55 PM, psyche101 said:

It is their job to be able to do that, if they were unable to find convincing aspects, lets face it they would not be in business. 

I can understand you wanting to know more, to not let go, when my father passed I took it pretty hard and followed the path you are, I just had to be honest with myself, and could see this was not helping, it was only extending my grief, hobbling me from moving on with life, which is one thing my father would not have wanted. I doubt your husband would either. 

 Although you have not yet, I do hope you consider the good advice given to you in this thread. You seem stubbornly keen to convince yourself that this is the real deal, and as such, only you can make sense of this sad situation. 

Good luck on your journey. Hope you do not support one of the parasites of society for too much longer. 

but thing is  the readings were so real , again there were so many things that only I knew of my hubby  

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3 hours ago, back to earth said:

Ha ... that was the obvious answer, My question was more to the point of ..... why should the present be described as a 

' discrete entity ' ?    am questioning your use of that term to describe a 'time concept '  ... but of course, you didnt get that, did you ? You were too busy looking for a line to go on about  yourself  telling the same  stories  we have read over and over and over and over and .....  :rolleyes:   ....    just like the following ; 

 

 

Related image

It is not me who doesn't get it.

You allowed your prejudices to blind you to the point i was making and the examples i used to explain it

i used the example of my life to illustrate the 3 different components of time, and their differing natures.

The past now exists as a fixed, discrete, entity which cannot be altered.

The present is in flux, and is shaped, in the instant, by the actions we take  (often based on events in our past)

The future  simply does not exist yet.

There IS no certain, fixed, or discrete future at this present time. Only something our minds construct and imagine might exist.

However, by our actions in the present, we create and shape the future, which, in turn, will become our past. My example shows how you can shape your past by planning your actions in your future. 

So .PAst: : discrete, fixed, immutable, isolated entity, with physical existence. .. 

Future : mutable, changeable, not yet physically existing, and thus non discrete.

The past is separated  and detached from the present and future by its being fixed.

Both the present and future are mutable or changeable, using will and action, making them discrete FROM the past  which is immutable and unchangeable. 

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3 hours ago, Kismit said:

OBack to Earth, have you heard of the theory that the major Arcana follows the story of the search for the holy grail?

Begining with the fool and his journey. The face cards representing central characters, the ups and downs of the journey, facing your inner devil after recieving the cup, and having everything turned upside down before finding the way of the rightous, and ending in having all things in the World. 

It's a story I once heard and it's quite interesting to put the cards in order against the grail quest.

I've read this concpet in a number of novels, including some set in the middle ages . An early morality tale, a bit like pilgrim's progress.  There is, absolutely, a religious association with the  tarot deck, despite modern christian aversion to them. 

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4 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

but thing is  the readings were so real , again there were so many things that only I knew of my hubby  

But that is why people like John Edward are very popular. They are good at it, so good they tend to fool people. which is their job, and why I do not like them. They train to fool people, which I honestly think is a very underhanded way of existing. Have you ever watched someone expose a cold reader? 

It might be a bit of an eye opener. there is one fellow who does it as demonstrations just to show how it can be done. 

 

LINK - Cold Reading: Confessions of a psychic

The way to start a reading, Campbell says, is first to feign modesty about your psychic ability: “John Edward doesn’t claim to be that good. I always told people I didn’t do readings very often, and might make mistakes.” Revelations seem more impressive when they catch a subject off guard.

Campbell’s readings always began with what he calls “hot button topics”:

“They are relationships, money, spirituality, loss and honesty. They’re universal. I’d say something vague like ‘you’re seeking to hide your pain behind a façade.’ Now, there is no person on Earth who doesn’t hide from pain.”

It’s a phenomenon skeptics call the fallacy of personal validation: people will often believe a very general statement to be specifically applicable to them.

“Pick up the horoscope section of any paper, choose any sign at random and start reading. It will apply to you,” Campbell says.

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7 hours ago, back to earth said:

Well since we are discussing ( or supposed to be discussing )  clair voyerism ... and now tarot has entered into it :

I find this interesting ;   " to become more introspective and self aware, and honor my own intuition. "

How did you feel tarot did that  ? ( I ask,  as I feel the same thing ... I have read tarot for over  40 years ,at times for the public, although I made it clear I was not claiming to be psychic  or predicting anything .) 

I definitely see it as 'psychological'  and a bridge to look within .   After 40 years of hermetic tarot and other related systems , I can see tarot as very useful tool this way ( and also very interesting how it got to be this way , evolving from a card game ! ). Why it should have done that is central to one of my thesis ; that natural and non artificial systems  can have transferable knowledge and learning to other natural and non artificial systems  eg  - in one small area ; the qabbalistic 4 world theory  and how that inter relates to hermetic elemental theory and the overall fourfold nature and laws in much of nature  ( eg. the 4 forces of physics ) and the 4 suits in tarot and the 4 aspects of human psyche ; spirit, emotive, mental and physical  ... stuff like that . 

For me, the tarot deck has become encoded with vast information of this type. For me, it had become my 'elemental earth'  magical weapon - the 'pentacle that is my body' .....   much as a  'handbook'  I suppose .  Also I am a visually symbolic type of learner so tarot suits me fine, and also symbolism is the language of communication between the conscious and unconscious mind , so its good for that too . 

 

But telling people you can predict their future and then taking money for that ? ........   p f f f t t  ! 

BTE! What you said. Wow, your post is amazing. All I can add is for me it tells the story of the human condition ( Psychology) which connects us all and we all can relate. Hermetic tarot is your deck? What I'd like to ask everyone is why they picked the deck they did. In my case, it spoke to my inner self, I feel my way thru things this one really captures my humanness. It is a beautiful deck. 

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On 1/29/2017 at 6:30 AM, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Wow, I think that's right. I'm seeing it thinking about it in the same way of considering paradoxes brought on by timetravel and it's manipulations of the past. I often am reminded of a scene in Star Trek: Voyager where the crew went into the past, and Captain Janeway said something about it all giving her a headache thinking about it. 

You see, that is what I always thought. Or I wouldn't have bought my latest deck. Well, I bought it for that and that being a cat lover, I bought the Mystical cat deck. ;) 

I guess, sometimes, different point of views of something is very curative. :D 

The mystical cat deck sounds a purrfect fit for you Stubbs. 

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Quote

I know guys,most Clairvoyants  can read into people, because most people have the same problems, but in my case and I have always been a skeptic on these issues , but  this  Clairvoyant  pointed out so many things about my husband , that my family and I would only know.   For instance she pointed out the big buckle belt , he always wore before he got so sick. In our later years he use to say I was a little unstable  to me and my kids, that also came out  in the reading. Moms a little unstable  of which I am in my older years:)   

 

Edited by docyabut2
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On 2/17/2017 at 0:10 AM, Sherapy said:

The mystical cat deck sounds a purrfect fit for you Stubbs. 

Thank you! :D  It does. I just recently reflected on how the deck is made up of certain groupings, like the arcanas in a Tarot dect. But even then I would have to go and see how what cards would be the death card, and such. It is called a Tarot deck, but one would have to really compare to see what particular cat or group of cats in my deck matches up to the regular set up of the original Tarot deck. 

By the way, I was very excited to read you have a particular Tarot deck as well. I find that very awesome!!! :tu: 

Edited by Stubbly_Dooright
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On 2/17/2017 at 8:29 PM, docyabut2 said:

I know guys,most Clairvoyants  can read into people, because most people have the same problems, but in my case and I have always been a skeptic on these issues , but  this  Clairvoyant  pointed out so many things about my husband , that my family and I would only know.   For instance she pointed out the big buckle belt , he always wore before he got so sick. In our later years he use to say I was a little unstable  to me and my kids, that also came out  in the reading. Moms a little unstable  of which I am in my older years:)   

I would think, that there would be those who are very observing and this is how they can read off people's body language even if it's describing someone not in the room. I think that they can read your reactions, based in how you answer their questions about your husband. 

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2 hours ago, Stubbly_Dooright said:

Thank you! :D  It does. I just recently reflected on how the deck is made up of certain groupings, like the arcanas in a Tarot dect. But even then I would have to go and see how what cards would be the death card, and such. It is called a Tarot deck, but one would have to really compare to see what particular cat or group of cats in my deck matches up to the regular set up of the original Tarot deck. 

By the way, I was very excited to read you have a particular Tarot deck as well. I find that very awesome!!! :tu: 

Ditto! Yes, I do. I think it is so kool that so many posters have shared their tarot stories and deck preferences. How fun!

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23 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

Ditto! Yes, I do. I think it is so kool that so many posters have shared their tarot stories and deck preferences. How fun!

Why, thank you! :D  (May the Meow be with you!)

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 1/27/2017 at 4:35 PM, docyabut2 said:

My daughters have been going to a Clairvoyant since my husband died  seeking answers,  I can believe they see the past, the present and the contact of spirits , but  of the future ? Doesn't that mean there is no free will and  our lives are  all ready planned out for us,  so why fight it ?

I can only say what I know or have seen.  My late wife, Irene,  was a natural Psychic/medium and brought a lot of crossed over beings in here to once again be with their relatives for a few precious moments.  There were lots of tears at those sessions and her clients were always happy to have the departed one(s) back again for a while.   
The focus was usually on emotional comfort and resolution rather than about forecasts and the future.  Irene worked more like a therapist than a fortune -teller and had her clients tape the sessions for future use after leaving here.  I have seen both fortune-tellers and therapeutic readers and can see that they all can offer their clients something of value UNLESS the client is stuck in fear, anger or cynical resistance.  Irene sometimes told the cynics to leave the table without paying since she could not read them.  IMO, a client can only get what they are willing or able to get from a Reader along with the Reader's good or not so good abilities.   Many times clients would come to "understand" a message AFTER the session was over and they had gone home. which is why Irene wanted the Client to keep a recording of the session.   There may be some charlatans and scammers amongst the Readers, but I believe that most of them are sincere and doing their best BUT the clients have problems with FEAR, DOUBT, ANGER, DISTRUST, CONTEMPT, and a lot of other negative attitudes, behaviors that hampers a Reader's work.  All  can say is, take your chances and get second opinions if a Reader disappoints or scams you.  They are not ALL perfect nor legit, just like any other business! 

Re: so why fight it ?

jim: Good point!  Do whatever you believe is RIGHT!  It's YOUR LIFE!

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Oops, double posted by mistake..............

Edited by jimrich
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  • 3 weeks later...

I believe in psychic stuff, because I've had its veracity proven to me time & time again, but I also believe in the multiverse and free will.

Psychics seem to predict one possible future, and many won't even go there.

"The best way to predict the future is to create it."

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Claire Voyant? Sounds like a new X-men.

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On 30/03/2017 at 2:37 AM, Hammerclaw said:

Claire Voyant? Sounds like a new X-men.

Not a new one,  but a very old one, going back to 1940 in mystic comics, (predecessor of marvel)  and then appearing in marvel  comics in a couple of cameo performances.

aka the black widow, she is not the same black widow of the modern era

 

Black-Widow.jpg

Claire Voyant, the original Black Widow. Art by Chris Weston

 She actually has the significant distinction of being the FIRST comic book,  costumed, superpowered female character. 

There is also another, non- marvel character of the same name, who had her own comic strip in the 40s.

Edited by Mr Walker
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 Well this Clairvoyant has been right on everything that is happening in my life.  And what is strange today  my cell phone out of the blue turned on , played  me and my husband love song  who has passed on, when we fell in love.  I  asked my daughters if they sent me it and they said no.

Edited by docyabut2
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This is a touchy subject because it's giving you comfort, even if that comfort is based on a false prophet. Personally, I despise these frauds as they give people hope and train in psychological manipulation exactly for the reason of scamming vulnerable people out of their money. These crooks happily swindle poorer people who can barely afford it without a hint of remorse. IMO many are sociopaths whom couldn't feel guilt or empathy if they tried; thus, they actually thrive on exploiting people during the grieving process.

In recorded history, there's never been a proven psychic, and there never will be because they all shy away from real scientists willing to study them. Deep down you know most of us on this forum are right and that you are being scammed.

They all say generic, vague things which any human can relate to and you suddenly think 'wow, I am in pain and financial trouble, how could he possibly know that?' Cold reading, suggestion, misdirection, showmanship etc... are the tricks utilized by every supposed 'psychic' and 'medium'. There's nothing supernatural about them or the information they garner.

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I always tell people to go to a so-called Spiritualist 'Church' to find out more about psychic & mediumistic abilities, because 'cold readers' cannot worm their way into that environment.

Any cold reader would be exposed quickly, because other (genuine) clairvoyants can spot a fake medium from a proverbial mile away!

It's all about consistently demonstrating their abilities, not just in the 'showy' demonstrations open to the public, but behind the scenes in Awareness Circles and Development Circles that help people develop their spiritual side.

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On 4/9/2017 at 10:20 PM, acute said:

I always tell people to go to a so-called Spiritualist 'Church' to find out more about psychic & mediumistic abilities

I'd like to see the methodology and any doctrines and guidelines that exist on this topic, from whatever Spiritualist Church you would recommend..  The Churches I know of tend to frown upon such claims, but I guess they're not 'spiritual'...?

On 4/9/2017 at 10:20 PM, acute said:

because 'cold readers' cannot worm their way into that environment.

How about warm/hot readers?  Wouldn't those in a relatively static congregation have much opportunity to garner information..? 

On 4/9/2017 at 10:20 PM, acute said:

Any cold reader would be exposed quickly, because other (genuine) clairvoyants can spot a fake medium from a proverbial mile away!

Can you give an example of a genuine one at work?

On 4/9/2017 at 10:20 PM, acute said:

It's all about consistently demonstrating their abilities, not just in the 'showy' demonstrations open to the public, but behind the scenes in Awareness Circles and Development Circles that help people develop their spiritual side.

If they could consistently demonstrate genuine clairvoyancy abilities, wouldn't science have gotten a little more interested?  And surely they would want to share those abilities with the world, and not hide away?  It almost seems to indicate selfishness, if they do not wish to share and use those abilities for the wider good...

Finally, how do these abilities differ from simply being an empathetic person with good understanding of body language and general reading of people's behaviors, word patterns, emotions and responses?  It seems to me *that* is what is being consistently demonstrated, nothing more.

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14 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

I'd like to see the methodology and any doctrines and guidelines that exist on this topic, from whatever Spiritualist Church you would recommend..  The Churches I know of tend to frown upon such claims, but I guess they're not 'spiritual'...?

How about warm/hot readers?  Wouldn't those in a relatively static congregation have much opportunity to garner information..? 

Can you give an example of a genuine one at work?

If they could consistently demonstrate genuine clairvoyancy abilities, wouldn't science have gotten a little more interested?  And surely they would want to share those abilities with the world, and not hide away?  It almost seems to indicate selfishness, if they do not wish to share and use those abilities for the wider good...

Finally, how do these abilities differ from simply being an empathetic person with good understanding of body language and general reading of people's behaviors, word patterns, emotions and responses?  It seems to me *that* is what is being consistently demonstrated, nothing more.


Firstly... my personal gripe..... I hate the phrase 'Spiritualist Church', because in reality it's more of a club than a church.  No spooky nonsense, no gobbledegook, and no indoctrination.  In the UK, the reputable ones are non-Christian and SNU-affiliated.
http://www.snu.org.uk/


Other than Spiritual Healing, there are two main things that happen at a Spiritualist Church.  One is called a Demonstration, open to the paying public, and (according to skeptics) can easily be faked using cold reading.  The other one is experienced mediums giving their time and energy to run 'circles'.  These are groups of (usually about 12) people, who often attend regularly, and/or have become members of the church.

There are two types of circle.  An Awareness Circle that gives proof of (or disproves) a person's alleged psychic abilities.  Also, a Development Circle that helps someone with obvious psychic abilities (usually demonstrated in an Awareness Circle) to develop into a medium.


I would love to see a serious documentary about spiritualism, especially Physical Mediumship, but I have seen nothing but a routine debunking of psychic readings given by fairground 'psychics' and charlatans.  'Demonstrations' and 'Private Sittings' are what the average person thinks of in connection with spiritualism, but are not representative of the amazing and genuine work that these churches do to help people experience and utilize their spiritual side.

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