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aka CAT

Zero Point Classified Anti Gravity Craft

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It's doubtful that I've ever posted in this section.  But, after noticing "The World's Biggest Secret" posted on separate forums, I returned here to investigate-- :rolleyes: too much of the usual verbal sparring to hold :sleepy: my interest.  Besides, I was mainly curious to see whether or not the subject audio-video (a-v), below, had been posted... not that I've even finished watching all 1:32:51 of it yet but that too many skeptics miss the point, exploration.  

Increasingly, zero point and, especially, zero point energy have been appearing in my varied technical reading; hence, my detour... while I'm researching zero point energy, setting a timeline to and surveying its applications, enjoy an apparently well-documented a-v about out-of-this-world technology's being copied in the manufacture of "Alien Reproduction Vehicles (ARV), nicknamed FluxLiners."

 

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Flux capacitor somewhere within. No doubt.

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Holy Hell! That'll be an hour and a half of my life.:blink:

 

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Hey, zero-point energy worked for the folks on Stargate, would be neat to see it used in the real world.

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1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

Holy Hell! That'll be an hour and a half of my life.:blink:

Hi.  As a skeptic, you might preview the a-v from :35 to 4:50 where "a couple dozen of the most credible witnesses" are identified as sources.  Thereafter, the illustrations might as much interest interest you.  While 3D graphics are generally computerized today, most of mine were drafted, stenciled and airbrushed.

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Posted (edited)

42 minutes ago, Thorvir said:

Hey, zero-point energy worked for the folks on Stargate, would be neat to see it used in the real world.

B)  huh?  As soon as you mentioned Stargate, I wanted you to read the article following:

Atomic bits despite zero-point energy? - Phys.org

 

https://phys.org/news/2016-07-atomic-bits-zero-point-...Proxy  Highlight

Jul 8, 2016 ... So-called "zero-point energy" is a term familiar to some cinema

lovers or series fans; in the fictional world of animated films such as [...]

 

The author of the above didn't, however, relegate the technology to sci-fi.

Others might want to first read:

 

How to explain zero-point energy to a non-physicist - Quora

 

https://www.quora.com/How-can-you-explain-zero-point-...Proxy  Highlight

First you need to understand a bit about quantum field theory. See for example:

What is a good explanation to quantum field theory for dummies? Basically, what  ...

 

 

 

Edited by aka CAT
Added bold to separate my text from source descriptions.
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I don't know about back engineering alien craft but it wouldn't surprise me if there is a newer propulsion system that is classified.

At one time the U2, SR71 and F117 were unheard of until declassified. Who knows what's in the inventory now.

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Quote

The author of the above didn't, however, relegate the technology to sci-fi.

As the article makes no mention of ZPE as an energy source it IS irrelevant to a discussion of an alleged "Classified Anti Gravity Craft" where zero-point energy is the presumed energy source. 

Quote

Nothing in the above link shows evidence of zero-point energy being the energy source powering the alleged anti-gravity craft mentioned above. One has to wonder why this is being entertained as being somehow "true" when even the links provided don't remotely support such a contention?

cormac

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52 minutes ago, cormac mac airt said:

As the article makes no mention of ZPE as an energy source it IS irrelevant to a discussion of an alleged "Classified Anti Gravity Craft" where zero-point energy is the presumed energy source. 

Nothing in the above link shows evidence of zero-point energy being the energy source powering the alleged anti-gravity craft mentioned above. One has to wonder why this is being entertained as being somehow "true" when even the links provided don't remotely support such a contention?

cormac

The above article was much about fluctuations, which is fundamental to the previously mentioned "Alien Reproduction Vehicles (ARV), nicknamed FluxLiners."  Moreover, because the latest and greatest discoveries somehow involve zero point energy (ZPE) by another name (see closing quote), scientists who have been leery of the technology have egg on their faces today.  Imagine what today's breaking news* will do for Crystal Graphite Powercells tomorrow, e.g.

http://revolution-green.com/self-powered-q-beta-prototype-silicon-crystal-graphite-powercells/

* Just TODAY a new scientific breakthrough was announced in regard to zero point energy (ZPE):

The explanation of what time crystals have to do with ZPE mentions a common scientific term that is synonymous with the latter e.g. 

"First predicted by Nobel-Prize winning theoretical physicist Frank Wilczek back in 2012, time crystals are structures that appear to have movement even at their lowest energy state, known as a ground state.

Usually when a material is in ground state, also known as the zero-point energy of a system, it means movement should theoretically be impossible, because that would require it to expend energy."

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Posted (edited)

Quote

scientists who have been leery of the technology have egg on their faces today

The only thing scientists have been leery about is the claim that zero-point energy is free, self-sustaining energy when there is no evidence that this is true, so no, they don't have egg on their face. But then I can see why some would claim otherwise.

Quote

It's interesting to note that one of the criticisms of the above in the comments section says:

Quote

einsteindavinci  6 months ago

I checked out the website. All kits on offer require some power input from an external source. Some of them seem to be nothing else but a Bedini type motor for pulse charging lead acid batteries. The allegedly self running machine in the featured video is described, but not available for sale as a kit. If this was for real, why would you need to sell all the other under-unity stuff?

It shouldn't have to be pointed out that ANY input from an external power source doesn't remotely make such a system self-supporting/self-generating and therefore it is useless in regards to such a claim. As stated in the above link "The real question is “are the plates a battery, a generator or harvester”? should tell anyone paying attention that the claim is questionable at best and someone/s are speculating well beyond the facts to support their fantasy du jour.

Quote

Usually when a material is in ground state, also known as the zero-point energy of a system it means movement should theoretically be impossible, because that would require it to expend energy."

I have to wonder why the following was purposely ignored from the Wiki link in the above quote?

Quote

 As temperature is reduced to absolute zero, it might be thought that all motion ceases and particles come completely to rest. In fact, however, kinetic energy is retained by particles even at the lowest possible temperature. The random motion corresponding to this zero-point energy never vanishes as a consequence of the uncertainty principle of quantum mechanics.

cormac

Edited by cormac mac airt
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1 hour ago, cormac mac airt said:

The only thing scientists have been leery about is the claim that zero-point energy is free, self-sustaining energy when there is no evidence that this is true, so no, they don't have egg on their face. But then I can see why some would claim otherwise.

Notice what I underline in a quote from the first link in my last post:

Published on Jul 22, 2016

WORLD’S FIRST !!
Q beta prototype – with integrated power source. Silicon Crystal Graphite Powercells run this entire machine continuously without external input of any kind.

 

Inspect the integrated power source of the power cell, because I expect such plates will be revolutionized by today's breakthrough.  In regard to ZPE, use of plates is often mentioned.  What's more,  as I should have mentioned the fact that the terms ZPE and ground state are frequently mentioned in context of a vacuum state, which is crucial to many experiments, e.g. those typically conducted in outer space, consider it "a device that readily demonstrates how the Casimir force could be put to use in principle was proposed by physicist Robert Forward in 1984. A ''vacuum fluctuation battery'' could be constructed consisting of stacked conducting plates. Applying the same polarity charge to all the plates would yield a repulsive force between plates, thereby opposing the Casimir force which is acting to push the plates together. Adjusting the electrostatic force so as to permit the Casimir force to dominate will result in adding energy to the electric field between the plates, thereby converting zero-point energy to electric energy"-- [...] Quantum Vacuum Energy Extraction [...] http://www.calphysics.org/zpe.html

 

Also, on the subject of vacuums, I underline below part a quote from the Quora hypertext above in regard to energy fields:

Now, when non-physicists think of a vacuum they usually think of "empty space", without any particles. However, the fields are always there, even

when they're not excited to a higher-energy state to create a particle. So a vacuum without any particles still has fields, they are simply not excited.

 

 

 

 

 

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I am always flabbergasted when these Zero Point Energy devices are promoted as energy sources. It should be pretty obvious from the term itself, it is the lowest state of energy possible, there is no more energy to be had!  

Cheers,
Badeskov

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Posted (edited)

57 minutes ago, badeskov said:

I am always flabbergasted when these Zero Point Energy devices are promoted as energy sources. It should be pretty obvious from the term itself, it is the lowest state of energy possible, there is no more energy to be had!  

Cheers,
Badeskov

Hi, badeskov.  I was composing when you posted and, now, I'm editing in order to acknowledge your post.  What is involved is a vacuum, a temperature and, of course, a certain pressure.  That combination makes for some pretty amazing conditions.  Of my previous posts, a couple (2) come to mind that evidence the energy present under all or, even, one of those conditions, e.g.

1. Water can boil and freeze at the same time 

Seriously, it's called the 'triple point', and it occurs when the temperature and pressure is just right for the three phases (gas, liquid, and solid) of a substance to coexist in thermodynamic equilibrium. This video shows cyclohexane in a vacuum.  [The video's description:] 

A volumetric flask containing liquid cyclohexane is depressurised to a very low pressure by a turbomolecular vacuum pump. The rapid drop in pressure results in a rapid drop in temperature, causing the substance to temporarily freeze, but the system is unstable, flirting with the triple point (a point of pressure and temperature at which a substance is simultaneously solid, liquid, and gas).
The result is a fluctuation between all three states of matter, in a rather stunning display of chemistry and physics in action.

  • 2. When Helium is cooled to almost absolute zero (-460°F or -273°C), the  lowest temperature possible, it becomes a liquid with surprising  properties: it flows against gravity and will start running up and over the lip of a glass container!

    superfluid helium

    We all know helium as a gas for blowing up balloons and making people talk like chipmunks, but what most people don’t know is that it comes in two distinct liquid states, one of which is borderline creepy. When helium is just a few degrees below its boiling point of –452 degrees Fahrenheit (–269 degrees Celsius) it will suddenly be able to do things that other fluids can’t, like dribble through molecule-thin cracks, climb up and over the sides of a dish, and remain motionless when its container is spun. No longer a mere liquid, the helium has become a superfluid—a liquid that flows without friction.

    “If you set [down] a cup with a liquid circulating around and you come back 10 minutes later, of course it’s stopped moving,” says John Beamish, an experimental physicist at the University of Alberta in Edmonton. Atoms in the liquid will collide with one another and slow down. “But if you did that with helium at low temperature and came back a million years later,” he says, “it would still be moving. (image source)

    ========================================================================================================================================

Y'all,

Pardon my cross referencing threads, but the technologies touched upon earlier herein are very relevant to aerospace engineering, e.g.

 

 

Edited by aka CAT
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12 hours ago, aka CAT said:

~SNIP~

Inspect the integrated power source of the power cell, because I expect such plates will be revolutionized by today's breakthrough.  In regard to ZPE, use of plates is often mentioned.  What's more,  as I should have mentioned the fact that the terms ZPE and ground state are frequently mentioned in context of a vacuum state, which is crucial to many experiments, e.g. those typically conducted in outer space, consider it "a device that readily demonstrates how the Casimir force could be put to use in principle was proposed by physicist Robert Forward in 1984. A ''vacuum fluctuation battery'' could be constructed consisting of stacked conducting plates. Applying the same polarity charge to all the plates would yield a repulsive force between plates, thereby opposing the Casimir force which is acting to push the plates together. Adjusting the electrostatic force so as to permit the Casimir force to dominate will result in adding energy to the electric field between the plates, thereby converting zero-point energy to electric energy"-- [...] Quantum Vacuum Energy Extraction [...] http://www.calphysics.org/zpe.html

~SNIP~

I would contend that noone seriously interested in the claim that such a devise is self-generating/self-sustaining cares about "what you expect" as all such claims suffer from the same problems, that being they are long on verbage but short to non-existant on specific details including how testing was performed to determine how they qualify as self-generating/sustaining as well as what their actual output over a set duration is.

cormac

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11 hours ago, aka CAT said:

Hi, badeskov.  I was composing when you posted and, now, I'm editing in order to acknowledge your post.  What is involved is a vacuum, a temperature and, of course, a certain pressure.  That combination makes for some pretty amazing conditions.  Of my previous posts, a couple (2) come to mind that evidence the energy present under all or, even, one of those conditions, e.g.

1. Water can boil and freeze at the same time 

Seriously, it's called the 'triple point', and it occurs when the temperature and pressure is just right for the three phases (gas, liquid, and solid) of a substance to coexist in thermodynamic equilibrium. This video shows cyclohexane in a vacuum.  [The video's description:] 

A volumetric flask containing liquid cyclohexane is depressurised to a very low pressure by a turbomolecular vacuum pump. The rapid drop in pressure results in a rapid drop in temperature, causing the substance to temporarily freeze, but the system is unstable, flirting with the triple point (a point of pressure and temperature at which a substance is simultaneously solid, liquid, and gas).
The result is a fluctuation between all three states of matter, in a rather stunning display of chemistry and physics in action.

  • 2. When Helium is cooled to almost absolute zero (-460°F or -273°C), the  lowest temperature possible, it becomes a liquid with surprising  properties: it flows against gravity and will start running up and over the lip of a glass container!

    superfluid helium

    We all know helium as a gas for blowing up balloons and making people talk like chipmunks, but what most people don’t know is that it comes in two distinct liquid states, one of which is borderline creepy. When helium is just a few degrees below its boiling point of –452 degrees Fahrenheit (–269 degrees Celsius) it will suddenly be able to do things that other fluids can’t, like dribble through molecule-thin cracks, climb up and over the sides of a dish, and remain motionless when its container is spun. No longer a mere liquid, the helium has become a superfluid—a liquid that flows without friction.

    “If you set [down] a cup with a liquid circulating around and you come back 10 minutes later, of course it’s stopped moving,” says John Beamish, an experimental physicist at the University of Alberta in Edmonton. Atoms in the liquid will collide with one another and slow down. “But if you did that with helium at low temperature and came back a million years later,” he says, “it would still be moving. (image source)

    ========================================================================================================================================

Y'all,

Pardon my cross referencing threads, but the technologies touched upon earlier herein are very relevant to aerospace engineering, e.g.

 

 

Hi Aka CAT,

Thanks for your response. I must admit that I am at loss to what you are actually trying to convey with this post with respect to ZPE energy sources. I see nothing that validates that we can somehow magically pull out energy from a system that is already at it's lowest energy state from any of this.

Cheers,
Badeskov

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Great find AKA Cat, it's pretty obvious there's a helluva lot research going on into things the majority of us know nothing about. 

My big concern lies with our known enemies, the Russians, the Chinese, etc.  - you have to wonder where they are at this point in time regarding arenas of this nature. 

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Just now, Scudbuster said:

Great find AKA Cat, it's pretty obvious there's a helluva lot research going on into things the majority of us know nothing about. 

My big concern lies with our known enemies, the Russians, the Chinese, etc.  - you have to wonder where they are at this point in time regarding arenas of this nature. 

It seems to make sense to me that these nations would be pushing alternative  kinds of technologies, recognizing they cant win the battle with the US in manufacturing more traditional machinery/weaponry. 

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3 minutes ago, Farmer77 said:

It seems to make sense to me that these nations would be pushing alternative  kinds of technologies, recognizing they cant win the battle with the US in manufacturing more traditional machinery/weaponry. 

These technologies, if perfected, would provide huge advantages, both economically and militarily, to those who unlock the secrets first. That's a very chilling and sobering prospect.

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Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, cormac mac airt said:

I would contend that noone seriously interested in the claim that such a devise is self-generating/self-sustaining cares about "what you expect"

Judging from the 'snips,' you must have been feeling very contentious.  That is unnecessary, as I, who claim no expertise in such matters, was merely doing my best to gather and present information mainly in regard to ZPE.  The examples that I provided you were to evidence the fact that, depending upon the stability or, especially, instability of the material in use, such systems can be anything but devoid of energy.  Punctuating that point was the concurrent confirmation of a new material (time crystals) that, for being made incapable of reaching equilibrium, is so uniquely unstable as to ever be in perpetual motion. Because "[a]lmost all of physics is based [o]n studying matter that is at equilibrium, [...] the ability to create these non-equilibrium crystals is a huge deal for the future of physics." 

"This is a new phase of matter, period"-- http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a24957/time-crystals/  So, even were you claiming to be expert at physics, it would behoove you to mull the implications of the finding and try to wrap your mind around the fact that these crystals exist in time but not space versus more engaging yourself in counterproductive diatribe.

Edited by aka CAT
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Posted (edited)

5 hours ago, badeskov said:

I must admit that I am at loss to what you are actually trying to convey with [...your examples re: ZPE].

badeskov et al,

I hope the emboldened portion of the above clarification is helpful.  I ask y'all to bear with me until I've thoroughly analyzed the a-v and can make time to more look into what scientific basis the claims made therein either have or lack.  Meanwhile, if not pleasantly engaging in topical chit chat, please focus on objectively submitting facts material to this thread.  And keep in mind that what is true on Earth isn't necessarily so in outer space where conditions, if not unknown, are apt to greatly vary.

0:-) MGby'all.

Edited by aka CAT

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1 hour ago, aka CAT said:

And keep in mind that what is true on Earth isn't necessarily so in outer space where conditions, if not unknown, are apt to greatly vary.

...I don't claim to be a scientist, but I'm pretty sure most scientifically-trained people would call foul on that. The whole point of basic scientific theories (gravitation, conservation of mass/energy, etc.) is that they are true in outer space as much as Earth and anywhere else in the universe.

--Jaylemurph

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, jaylemurph said:

...I don't claim to be a scientist, but I'm pretty sure most scientifically-trained people would call foul on that. The whole point of basic scientific theories (gravitation, conservation of mass/energy, etc.) is that they are true in outer space as much as Earth and anywhere else in the universe.

--Jaylemurph

Think again.  While the basic laws of physics hold true under known circumstances, there is yet no theory of everything (TOE).  Man has a long way to go before he can know and, thus, account for everything.  Sure, headway is made, e.g. CERN produced a beam of anti-hydrogen, produced the first anti-matter ever, a couple of years before astronomers supposedly found indication of a galaxy of anti-matter that, otherwise, is mysteriously absent based upon tenets of the best theories.  But I wasn't trying to be oblique, as there are far more obvious variables, e.g. insofar as temperature effects many things, most places in outer space are not an equal distance from a G2V star as is Earth.  That example did nothing to mention gravitational nor atmospheric and, thus, frictional variations among other possible factors.  Even so, put in context of helium's needing to be at absolute zero for it to be in perpetual motion, no energy is required to achieve that motion where the temperature is  -460 degrees F or -273 degrees C.

Edited by aka CAT

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2 hours ago, aka CAT said:

badeskov et al,

I hope the emboldened portion of the above clarification is helpful.  I ask y'all to bear with me until I've thoroughly analyzed the a-v and can make time to more look into what scientific basis the claims made therein either have or lack.  Meanwhile, if not pleasantly engaging in topical chit chat, please focus on objectively submitting facts material to this thread.  And keep in mind that what is true on Earth isn't necessarily so in outer space where conditions, if not unknown, are apt to greatly vary.

0:-) MGby'all.

On the bolded part, that is simply not true. Scientists have measured simple constants in outer space, near and far, and they all correspond to what we see here on Earth - which they very well should as otherwise the current theories as we know them would long ago have fallen apart and we would have known. The very same laws and physical constants we observe here on Earth are the same as we see in outer space. That is why we can send probes into the outer reaches of the Solar system without them going astray and analyze what happens on other planets. 

Cheers,
Badeskov

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3 hours ago, aka CAT said:

Judging from the 'snips,' you must have been feeling very contentious.  That is unnecessary, as I, who claim no expertise in such matters, was merely doing my best to gather and present information mainly in regard to ZPE.  The examples that I provided you were to evidence the fact that, depending upon the stability or, especially, instability of the material in use, such systems can be anything but devoid of energy.  Punctuating that point was the concurrent confirmation of a new material (time crystals) that, for being made incapable of reaching equilibrium, is so uniquely unstable as to ever be in perpetual motion. Because "[a]lmost all of physics is based [o]n studying matter that is at equilibrium, [...] the ability to create these non-equilibrium crystals is a huge deal for the future of physics." 

"This is a new phase of matter, period"-- http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a24957/time-crystals/  So, even were you claiming to be expert at physics, it would behoove you to mull the implications of the finding and try to wrap your mind around the fact that these crystals exist in time but not space versus more engaging yourself in counterproductive diatribe.

Just because a material is not at an equilibrium does not in any way, shape or form mean that you can extract energy from it. You are still at the zero point, there is nothing to be had. So I must admit that I still do not get the connection.

Cheers,
Badeskov

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5 hours ago, Scudbuster said:

Great find AKA Cat, it's pretty obvious there's a helluva lot research going on into things the majority of us know nothing about. 

Uhm, not really. At least not if you tend to read scientific journals.

5 hours ago, Scudbuster said:

My big concern lies with our known enemies, the Russians, the Chinese, etc.  - you have to wonder where they are at this point in time regarding arenas of this nature. 

There is nothing revolutionary buried in this kind of research, besides from a scientific point of view. Maybe years down the road there can be some material science that can lead to metallurgical advances, but there is no "magical" energy source here. Those that believe that have been watching too much SG-1 and similar shows on the SciFi channel.

Cheers,
Badeskov

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