Harte Posted February 18, 2017 #51 Share Posted February 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Jarocal said: I do not think I stated why the site is submerged just that it is. To be clear, I am not postulating the existence of some lost advanced civilization there (or anywhere else other than Plato's Greenland ). I am just using my limited mental capacity and experience (growing/preserving food and smacking rocks with blunt or sharp objects) to find ways a paucity of evidence for such a civilization presents itself if one truly believes that it existed. Do I think Atlanteans controlled the cocaine trade between Amazonia and Egypt using flying machines procured in the Indus Valley? No... The Jomon culture, which dates to 16,000 YBP, no doubt left artifacts that are now submerged. The oldest pottery from the Jomon dates to a period when Japan was still connected to the Asian mainland. So, we have a culture with now-submerged villages, but we also find their remains on dry land. So like I said, I don't think we miss much more that's underwater than we miss on dry land. Harte 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted February 18, 2017 #52 Share Posted February 18, 2017 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Harte said: The Jomon culture, which dates to 16,000 YBP, no doubt left artifacts that are now submerged. The oldest pottery from the Jomon dates to a period when Japan was still connected to the Asian mainland. So, we have a culture with now-submerged villages, but we also find their remains on dry land. So like I said, I don't think we miss much more that's underwater than we miss on dry land. Harte Wot ? Edited February 18, 2017 by back to earth 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWoo7 Posted February 18, 2017 #53 Share Posted February 18, 2017 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted February 19, 2017 #54 Share Posted February 19, 2017 What is interesting ? That Japan was connected to 'Asian mainland ' in 16.000 YBP ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWoo7 Posted February 19, 2017 #55 Share Posted February 19, 2017 (edited) Interesting ? oh I was adding to ... as in appending, Append/Appendage, was extending on ::: 4 hours ago, Harte said: don't think we miss much more that's underwater than we miss on dry land and a cutie ! 4 hours ago, back to earth said: Wot ? as if saying Wha what!, I'm partial to underwater! besides, there's undeniably a ton of fun stuff to find. It would be really great if it all lowered 300 feet and we could look in detail for a hundred years! Hense my veeeeeeeeeeery interrrrrresting cutie ! Edited February 19, 2017 by MWoo7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted February 19, 2017 #56 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Hmmm .... guess no one is gonna take the bait then ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmt_sesh Posted February 19, 2017 #57 Share Posted February 19, 2017 2 hours ago, back to earth said: Hmmm .... guess no one is gonna take the bait then ? That Japan was once connected to the mainland? I don't know. I wasn't around then. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted February 19, 2017 #58 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Yeah ..... no one was . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted February 19, 2017 #59 Share Posted February 19, 2017 2 hours ago, kmt_sesh said: That Japan was once connected to the mainland? I don't know. I wasn't around then. I was but I was in N.E Africa building a boat to go to an island I heard about in the Mediterrainian at the time and well communication in those days weren't like they are today, do you realize the amount of mountains and people it needed to send smoke signals that distance and not every one could afford to smoke one to someone else. jmccr8 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarocal Posted February 19, 2017 #60 Share Posted February 19, 2017 15 hours ago, Harte said: The Jomon culture, which dates to 16,000 YBP, no doubt left artifacts that are now submerged. The oldest pottery from the Jomon dates to a period when Japan was still connected to the Asian mainland. So, we have a culture with now-submerged villages, but we also find their remains on dry land. So like I said, I don't think we miss much more that's underwater than we miss on dry land. Harte And the lithics found offshore Virginia have also been found in Pennsylvania among other inland states. Perhaps the inland Japan sites are the Jomon version of Appalachian America where newer technologies tend to lag behind due to lower population density. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harte Posted February 19, 2017 #61 Share Posted February 19, 2017 11 minutes ago, Jarocal said: And the lithics found offshore Virginia have also been found in Pennsylvania among other inland states. Perhaps the inland Japan sites are the Jomon version of Appalachian America where newer technologies tend to lag behind due to lower population density. Unlikely. The Jomon culture lasted for thousands of years. 14 thousand years, to be a little more precise. There's not a lot of mystery there. Harte 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarocal Posted February 19, 2017 #62 Share Posted February 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Harte said: Unlikely. The Jomon culture lasted for thousands of years. 14 thousand years, to be a little more precise. There's not a lot of mystery there. Harte Do you thibk it possible that the decorative cord marks on the pottery that the period takes it name from may have possessed a more functional purpose? If I am only semi-sedentary and store things in clay pots maybe I want to stretch a hide across the top and bund it with cordage to keep out animals and water or make transport easier. Their culture, like later ones in the Amazon show clear indications of managing fruit/nut bearing trees for production. They also appear to have cultivated cereal crops like the Yayoi culture however it is with Yayoi that cereal (rice in particular) begins outstripping perrenial sources in consumption. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenemet Posted February 19, 2017 #63 Share Posted February 19, 2017 13 hours ago, kmt_sesh said: That Japan was once connected to the mainland? I don't know. I wasn't around then. I didn't do it! Honest! And the dog ate my homework! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanslune Posted February 19, 2017 #64 Share Posted February 19, 2017 14 hours ago, kmt_sesh said: That Japan was once connected to the mainland? I don't know. I wasn't around then. Rupert* was and he says the rent rates for summer cottages on the seashore were horrific! *The Atlantean soul that lives in a Hormel Chili (no beans) can that sits on my computer. Aka Furyck the kidder, Quadir Za-Kumquative the Magnificence and Susan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted February 19, 2017 #65 Share Posted February 19, 2017 7 hours ago, Jarocal said: And the lithics found offshore Virginia have also been found in Pennsylvania among other inland states. Perhaps the inland Japan sites are the Jomon version of Appalachian America where newer technologies tend to lag behind due to lower population density. One thing that I think it would do is possibly new dates of habitation in the Americas as well as other global locations. jmccr8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted February 19, 2017 #66 Share Posted February 19, 2017 15 hours ago, jmccr8 said: I was but I was in N.E Africa building a boat to go to an island I heard about in the Mediterrainian at the time and well communication in those days weren't like they are today, do you realize the amount of mountains and people it needed to send smoke signals that distance and not every one could afford to smoke one to someone else. jmccr8 Really ? I didnt know you were a Neanderthal ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted February 19, 2017 #67 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Just now, back to earth said: Really ? I didnt know you were a Neanderthal ! I'm not actually but many of my descendants are of a mixed ancestry, I did have opportunities at the dances in their camps on occasion. jmccr8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
back to earth Posted February 19, 2017 #68 Share Posted February 19, 2017 " Do not fear the thunder bang- bang drums my pretty ..... come to jmcr8 / aka ''Groont' and you be safe with me ." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmt_sesh Posted February 20, 2017 #69 Share Posted February 20, 2017 20 hours ago, jmccr8 said: I was but I was in N.E Africa building a boat to go to an island I heard about in the Mediterrainian at the time and well communication in those days weren't like they are today, do you realize the amount of mountains and people it needed to send smoke signals that distance and not every one could afford to smoke one to someone else. jmccr8 Goodness, man, why didn't you just use carrier pigeons? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted February 20, 2017 #70 Share Posted February 20, 2017 1 hour ago, kmt_sesh said: Goodness, man, why didn't you just use carrier pigeons? Ahh mostly they were lunch. jmccr8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Wearer of Hats Posted February 20, 2017 #71 Share Posted February 20, 2017 2 hours ago, kmt_sesh said: Goodness, man, why didn't you just use carrier pigeons? Aren't they extinct? Or am I thinking of Passenger Pigeons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmt_sesh Posted February 21, 2017 #72 Share Posted February 21, 2017 20 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said: Aren't they extinct? Or am I thinking of Passenger Pigeons? Yes, passenger pigeons were lazy and refused to fly. They went extinct when carrier pigeons refused to carry them, It's really that simple. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSot Posted February 21, 2017 #73 Share Posted February 21, 2017 On 2/16/2017 at 4:19 PM, MountainWard said: A view from a different angle.... We know that 80% of the human race lives next the ocean, near inland seas, and near rivers. We know that for 80% of human existence the earth has been in glacial maximum with much lower sea levels, hundreds of feet lower. Looking at these two numbers, what percentage of human archaeology would likely be explorable by us during an interglacial period? It is a fact that we are basing all of what we know about human history on a very, very, small window of archaeological discovery. An argument might be made as to whether modern mainstream archaeology, may be considered "pseudo archaeology". Just a potentialy different angle of approach... There's a difference between science and pseudo-science. What you gave above is simply lack of data leading to wrong conclusions. And in science we know the data are incomplete, and so all conclusions are provisional. As new data comes in, those conclusions are to be reexamined in light of that new data. There's a process to critique it, to refine and confirm and draw conclusions from it. It is not at all perfect, but it's a process always in refinement. Making conclusions from incomplete data is still good science, if you keep as closely as you can to the data you have. What makes something pseudo-science is not having that. Conclusions that have no way of being demonstrated. Handwaving to excuse lack of evidence. Obfuscation of data that contradicts their claims. No internal review between pseudoscience "scholars," no concensus. And most of the ideas are simply recycled generation to generation. Ancient Aliens has it's origins in old world chauvinism, for example. This is not a great explanation, hopefully someone here can pick up and give a better one. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowSot Posted February 21, 2017 #74 Share Posted February 21, 2017 As far as author recommendations, along with Fagin I would recommend also Ken Feder and Jeb Card. Both are archaeologists that write and speak on pseudoarchaeology. They also both cohost a podcast, Archaeology Fantasies with Sarah Head, another archaeologist. There's also Jason Colavito. He mainly writes through a blog, and is not himself an archaeologist. But he has written extensively about Ancient Aliens and pseudo-archaeology and provides primary sources tracking the origins of various claims. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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