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Trump's Foreign Policy: Business as Usual?


Yamato

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From the video: "In the first weeks of his presidency, Donald Trump looks like he is taking up his predecessors' aggressive foreign policy and kicking it up a notch.  Is this what America voted for? More war?"

For a special treat, just listen to superhawk neocon Sen. Lindsey Graham (with Sen. John McCain) telling Ukrainian soldiers:

"I admire the fact that you will fight for your homeland.  Your fight is our fight.  2017 will be the Year of Offense.  All of us will go back to Washington and we will push the case against Russia. "

Is this the violence of The Right? 

Does it matter?

"Business as usual
System never fails
Everybody's constitutional
Bargain back room sale"

-John Popper

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Trump who, after all, at least in part owes his Presidency to Putin, would like to return the favor and hand Syria and Ukraine and probably Georgia to him.   But now there is a fly in the ointment -- people are suspicious so he doesn't dare.  Of course he can do it anyway by simply making ugly noises but not doing anything when the Russians move in.  This is already the case in Syria.

I just can't imagine the President of the United States not protesting all those hangings by the barbarians in Damascus, but we hear nothing.

At any rate fairly soon sanctions (the important ones) will be lifted and Putin can go his merry way.  If nothing else Exxon will see to that.

The American public will tolerate this because it will soon be able to carry around machine guns and those "foreigners" with the slanty eyes and dark color will be being generally kept out and no one will be able to buy cheaper and better made Mexican goods.  Instead they will be made by machines but no one will notice this hasn't created any jobs, just greater profits for a few billionaires.

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I wondered if this was going to be good ol' Ron. I say, as i do to so much, come on, give him a chance for goodness sake. I do agree that  he does seem to have a disappointing fixation with Iran, but  his policy towards Syria and Ukraine and Russia seems vastly more sane, and you only have to look at the belligerent rantings of the deranged McCain and his neocon allies to be extremely grateful that they were kept out of power. 

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Quote

 

Trump who, after all, at least in part owes his Presidency to Putin, would like to return the favor and hand Syria and Ukraine and probably Georgia to him.   But now there is a fly in the ointment -- people are suspicious so he doesn't dare.  Of course he can do it anyway by simply making ugly noises but not doing anything when the Russians move in.  This is already the case in Syria.

I just can't imagine the President of the United States not protesting all those hangings by the barbarians in Damascus, but we hear nothing.

 

 

So you think America's President should take up arms against Russia's Tyrant because you, through reading the news, are terrified of him and think he wants to take over the world? Who's the insane one here? 

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21 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

The American public will tolerate this because it will soon be able to carry around machine guns and those "foreigners" with the slanty eyes and dark color will be being generally kept out and no one will be able to buy cheaper and better made Mexican goods.  Instead they will be made by machines but no one will notice this hasn't created any jobs, just greater profits for a few billionaires.

I think you're beginning to lose it Frank. You were ranting on a moment before about Russia's Tyrant and how he wants to take over the world, but now you're going on about Mexicans (but slanty eyed ones). So it's because America's President is being blackmailed by Russia's Tyrant that Mexicans will be kept out of the US? Your argument seems to be shooting off all over the place in random directions, like machine gun fire off the armor of a tank. 

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1 minute ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

I think you're beginning to lose it Frank. You were ranting on a moment before about Russia's Tyrant and how he wants to take over the world, but now you're going on about Mexicans (but slanty eyed ones). So it's because America's President is being blackmailed by Russia's Tyrant that Mexicans will be kept out of the US? Your argument seems to be shooting off all over the place in random directions, like machine gun fire off the armor of a tank. 

You are getting too personal.  I have to be brief so I am.  You are also putting words in my mouth (President being blackmailed).  Why don't you go back to what I posted and give it some serious thought.

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15 minutes ago, Frank Merton said:

You are getting too personal.  I have to be brief so I am.  You are also putting words in my mouth (President being blackmailed).  Why don't you go back to what I posted and give it some serious thought.

I did. Your argument seems to be not only that Poot'n and Assad aren't nice people, so America's president mistaken in trying to act less belligerently towards them, but not only that, they're an active danger to the world, and that really doesn't follow logically. 

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What I got from you was a personal insult and words put in my mouth.  That is no way to get anyone to pay any attention to you.

It is true that neither of the parties mentioned are "nice people." They are, in fact, monsters responsible for the deaths of millions.  I think a lot follows from that, and your propagandistic slurs don't achieve anything except tell me you have an agenda.

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I have an agenda? That's right, I'd rather not have perpetual war with everyone on some flimsy pretext that they're "nasty" or they want to take over the world! And for chris' sake frank, this is one of the daftest things I've ever seen on this site.  

Quote

It is true that neither of the parties mentioned are "nice people."

They are, in fact, monsters responsible for the deaths of millions. Millions for chrissake Frank? Where has your sense of proportion gone? How many freakin' millions has Poot'n murdered? In his Gulags? I think you must be confusing him with Uncle Joe Stalin. 

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4 hours ago, Frank Merton said:

What I got from you was a personal insult and words put in my mouth.  That is no way to get anyone to pay any attention to you.

It is true that neither of the parties mentioned are "nice people." They are, in fact, monsters responsible for the deaths of millions.  I think a lot follows from that, and your propagandistic slurs don't achieve anything except tell me you have an agenda.

Psst...Frank...  Wanna get even at a troll you know has nothing of value to say?  Give them all the attention they're worth...zero.  Eventually their need for attention will be overshadowed by their realization that frothing and dissing and multiposting nonsense is all the more embarrassing because you're not responding, and will sulk away.  There are folks on the Right who are willing to have an informed discussion and can handle scrutiny, and then there are Trump fan boys and girls that aren't going to tolerate anything that strays even slightly from their party talking points, however ridiculous, and regardless of what facts or statistics they are presented with.

Do yourself a favor...shake your head and repeat after me:  Not worth it.  There's lot of people willing to have a reasonable conversation with you in these forums, I've even found a few on the Right...  ;) 

 

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45 minutes ago, OldNate said:

Psst...Frank...  Wanna get even at a troll you know has nothing of value to say?  Give them all the attention they're worth...zero. 

 What qualifies as a troll in your world, then ? anyone who doesn't share your hatred of [insert name of current figure of hate here] ?  Obviously you disagree with what I said about the current leader of Russia and, as you've said before, you hold Trump in contempt, but was what i said there actually trolling? What was there in that that had nothing of value? You mean refusing to accept the opinion of the mass media that Russia's and/or America's leaders are monstrous villains? You do know what trolling means, or do you just use it as a general term of abuse for anyone whose position you don't agree with? 

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13 minutes ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

 What qualifies as a troll in your world, then ? anyone who doesn't share your hatred of [insert name of current figure of hate here] ?  Obviously you disagree with what I said about the current leader of Russia and, as you've said before, you hold Trump in contempt, but was what i said there actually trolling? What was there in that that had nothing of value? You mean refusing to accept the opinion of the mass media that Russia's and/or America's leaders are monstrous villains? You do know what trolling means, or do you just use it as a general term of abuse for anyone whose position you don't agree with? 

Not really interested in discussing the topic with you, as I find dealing with your type exhausting, but I'll help you with your trolling problem, so that perhaps you can join the conversation in a way that people will actually want to discuss issues with you, vs. feel the need to go on the defensive on a personal level, or just dismiss you out of hand.

Your approach, your immediate leap to confrontation, the multi posting, the personal attacks and the tired and utterly transparent debate tactics are what make you not worth discussing with.  If you look elsewhere in this forum, you can see where left and right minded folks are able to talk, though definitely not in agreement, without the conversation deteriorating into brawls.  The reason it's not worth discussing these things with you is that there is already enough division.  It's old.  A lot of people wanting to talk about this stuff are legitimately concerned with what's going on, and want things to improve.  You seem just to want to hate on people.  Yawn.

Anyway, cheers, always open to chatting, you've just gotta raise the bar a bit.  Maybe start by apologizing to Frank and trying your response again, minus all the eye roll inspiring chest puffing and canned outrage.  You might also want to fact check a bit of what you're saying...again, not really wanting to get into the issue with you until you demonstrate a level of civility, but...ya, fact check yourself.  Helpful hint. 

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7 hours ago, Frank Merton said:

Trump who, after all, at least in part owes his Presidency to Putin, would like to return the favor and hand Syria and Ukraine and probably Georgia to him.   But now there is a fly in the ointment -- people are suspicious so he doesn't dare.  Of course he can do it anyway by simply making ugly noises but not doing anything when the Russians move in.  This is already the case in Syria.

I just can't imagine the President of the United States not protesting all those hangings by the barbarians in Damascus, but we hear nothing.

At any rate fairly soon sanctions (the important ones) will be lifted and Putin can go his merry way.  If nothing else Exxon will see to that.

The American public will tolerate this because it will soon be able to carry around machine guns and those "foreigners" with the slanty eyes and dark color will be being generally kept out and no one will be able to buy cheaper and better made Mexican goods.  Instead they will be made by machines but no one will notice this hasn't created any jobs, just greater profits for a few billionaires.

I have absolutely no words for this Drivel. Yeah if you want to call me a troll you more than welcome because your post lacks any substance for an intellectual discourse.

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7 hours ago, Frank Merton said:

Trump who, after all, at least in part owes his Presidency to Putin...

You're lying again.  The rest of what you said is a pile of irrelevant dung as usual.

Edited by Thorvir
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7 hours ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

So you think America's President should take up arms against Russia's Tyrant because you, through reading the news, are terrified of him and think he wants to take over the world? Who's the insane one here? 

Rhetorical question, of course.

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1 hour ago, OldNate said:

Do yourself a favor...shake your head and repeat after me:  Not worth it.  There's lot of people willing to have a reasonable conversation with you in these forums, I've even found a few on the Right...  ;) 

The problem is, you think that "having a reasonable conversation" is allowing Frank to spew lie after lie after lie, and no one calling him out on it.  I'm not certain you understand what "having a reasonable conversation" actually is now.

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2 hours ago, Thorvir said:

The problem is, you think that "having a reasonable conversation" is allowing Frank to spew lie after lie after lie, and no one calling him out on it.  I'm not certain you understand what "having a reasonable conversation" actually is now.

Sigh...

http://scientificliteracymatters.com/2015/11/how-to-engage-in-a-friendly-debate/

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Moderator Note:

If you wish to keep this topic open, return to discussing the facts.

If you want it closed keep going the way your all going.

 

Consider it the choose your own adventure option.

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US foreign policy in Syria.  US ground troops in Syria?

"There are 200,000 Peshmerga, there are 200,000 Iraq soldiers, there's 100,000+ in the Syrian Army, there's 600,000 in the Turks', and there are 15,000 ISIS and WE gotta go over there to defeat them?"

I truly regret this man isn't President. 

According to Dr. Paul, everyone's still saying we need to stay everywhere.  So here's some questions to open up the topic:

 

Where is the Trump administration pulling any of this back?   

Where is Trump pulling Graham and McCain home from Christmas holiday in Ukraine?    Where is he reprimanding them for what they've done?

Does ANYONE care about drone strikes anymore now that Presidents from both parties have used them?  

Why are Trump's drone strikes saner than Obama's drone strikes?

Why are we bombing Yemen?

Why are we banning foreign nationals from seven countries who have proven to be no historical threat to our people?

 

I've told people here so many times, when they wanted to bring up George W. Bush in foreign policy discussions from 2009-2016, that it was Obama's foreign policy.   We don't genuinely dislike a policy when all we do is make partisan excuses for it about the other President.

George W. Bush was no excuse for Barack Obama.   And now it's Trump's foreign policy.

Edited by Yamato
adding content to the discussion to save it
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14 hours ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

I wondered if this was going to be good ol' Ron. I say, as i do to so much, come on, give him a chance for goodness sake.

It's like Ron Paul said in the OP, we try to give Trump the benefit of the doubt.  Giving someone a chance doesn't mean to suspend critical thinking and ignore them.

 

Quote


and you only have to look at the belligerent rantings of the deranged McCain and his neocon allies to be extremely grateful that they were kept out of power. 

 

We can talk about past elections but Trump is our President now.

A rhetorical question for all:  Is it fair to characterize "The Right" with these two GOP Grim Reapers in the Senate who leave death in their wakes every time they visit another hot spot they want to war in?     I don't think it is.

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Trump has already begun killing the family members of terrorists, just like he promised.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/01/yemen-strike-eight-year-old-american-girl-killed-al-awlaki

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/02/politics/donald-trump-terrorists-families/

 

 

Edited by Kismit
Calming the flames.
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I know your preferred policy would be to get out and leave them to it, but let's give him a couple of months to find out what his policy regarding ISIS actually is, and if in fact he has one. What I think will be the decisive thing will be what he does towards Iran. Is it just bluster to show Israel that he's on their side? If he does do anything stupid, or if there's a suspiciously convenient "incident", then that'll be it for him with me. 

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13 hours ago, Manfred von Dreidecker said:

I know your preferred policy would be to get out and leave them to it, but let's give him a couple of months to find out what his policy regarding ISIS actually is, and if in fact he has one. What I think will be the decisive thing will be what he does towards Iran. Is it just bluster to show Israel that he's on their side? If he does do anything stupid, or if there's a suspiciously convenient "incident", then that'll be it for him with me. 

That's exactly what we're talking about here Manfred, what his policy actually is.   There's no reason to wait a couple of months, foreign policy =/= ISIS.

4:47

Well at least we have one Senator who's concerned.  Apparently I'm in the 1% who's concerned on UM.

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Bashar al-Assad rejects Donald Trump's "safe zones".

DAMASCUS, SYRIA — Syrian President Bashar Assad, in an exclusive interview with Yahoo News, rejected President Trump’s idea to create “safe zones” inside Syria as “not a realistic idea at all.” He said he could see a role for American troops to fight the Islamic State in Syria, but only with his government’s approval and as part of a “rapprochement” with Russia.

“So, if you want to start genuinely as United States to [defeat the Islamic State] it must be through the Syrian government,” said Assad, when asked about reports that Trump has directed the Pentagon to develop new plans to destroy the Islamic State that could include the deployment of more U.S. special forces troops and Apache helicopters inside Syria.

“We are here, we are the Syrians. We own this country as Syrians, nobody else,” he added. “So, you cannot defeat the terrorism without cooperation with the people and the government of any country.”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/exclusive-syrias-assad-rejects-trumps-call-for-safe-zones-173410796.html

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